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  #61  
Old Jun 3, 2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
I've been not adding disc scans anymore, since it's somewhat painful to get a not inclined disc scan with my poor skills and limited time.
My CD scans are very rarely straight... but I use this technique to straighten it out:

Quote:
I can never get the scans straight either, but that's easily corrected in Photoshop by using the Measure tool (it looks like a ruler.) Just click on an edge of the book, then hold the mouse down and unclick where you want the line to end. Use your mouse to move the beginning and end of the lines to wherever you want, then go to Image / Rotate Canvas / Arbitrary. The box will have the right angle to correct the scans so they're straight.
This scan wasn't straight at all, I had to rotate it about 7 degrees using the technique described above.
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  #62  
Old Jun 5, 2012, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Foxhack View Post
My CD scans are very rarely straight... but I use this technique to straighten it out:

This scan wasn't straight at all, I had to rotate it about 7 degrees using the technique described above.
Thanks, I tried it with both Photoshop and Gimp, but my scanner tends to get a clear bounding box (or circumscribed rectangle?) line and when I rotate the disc image, the line also rotates, which I kinda dislike. Hope that's not everybody minds it.
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  #63  
Old Jun 5, 2012, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
Thanks, I tried it with both Photoshop and Gimp, but my scanner tends to get a clear bounding box (or circumscribed rectangle?) line and when I rotate the disc image, the line also rotates, which I kinda dislike. Hope that's not everybody minds it.
Just scan a bigger area, then rotate and then crop it. Or just use some clone tool.
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  #64  
Old Jun 5, 2012, 07:52 AM
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http://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4421

also had a mention about the scans on how to deal with multiple or missing.
Which I am not sure if what secret said is they already had an idea on it but weren't sure how to implement it.
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  #65  
Old Jun 5, 2012, 08:02 AM
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I like that idea.
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  #66  
Old Jun 5, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
Just scan a bigger area, then rotate and then crop it. Or just use some clone tool.
This works quite well, I typically scan around half an inch or so of extra space so the rotated image won't have those empty spots. The clone tool works, but it doesn't look um, well, right.
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  #67  
Old Jun 7, 2012, 05:19 AM
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I tried to get a bigger scan by placing the disc centrally on the platen or even opening the front cover, but my scanner returned images with very minimum spaces. Thanks for suggestions, guys.
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  #68  
Old Jun 7, 2012, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
I tried to get a bigger scan by placing the disc centrally on the platen or even opening the front cover, but my scanner returned images with very minimum spaces. Thanks for suggestions, guys.
Your scanner should have an "Advanced" button somewhere that lets you disable the automatic scan cropping. Or maybe it's a hidden option. What's your scanner brand and model?
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  #69  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 02:05 PM
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With the expansion of digital albums, what is the rules for pdf files? Albums on say iTunes like Heavy Rain come with a digital booklet.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/hea...ck/id356650633

How should we handle this? Not allow it? Make people break it down to per image? Allow it as a whole and let the database do a zoom/focus on areas?
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  #70  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearin View Post
With the expansion of digital albums, what is the rules for pdf files? Albums on say iTunes like Heavy Rain come with a digital booklet.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/hea...ck/id356650633

How should we handle this? Not allow it? Make people break it down to per image? Allow it as a whole and let the database do a zoom/focus on areas?
I've been exporting d.b. pages as images for a while... And they are accepted when submitted (most recent case here).

Though, as my understanding is that VGMdb would like to have "scans" in the best quality possible, it would be nice to know if we'll ever be able to contribute the original PDF... but probably that's stretching it a bit too much.
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Last edited by ilef; Jun 19, 2012 at 02:54 PM.
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  #71  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 03:07 PM
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I don't think we should allow pdf files. It's part of the package you pay for. So that's distributing illegal files.
I know putting jpg of the pdf itself is not a big difference, though it's not the original file.
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  #72  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 03:35 PM
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Most of the scans submitted to the site are unauthorized+illegally hosted copies of copyrighted material, albeit of a reduced quality (apart from a few .png), and they are part of the "package" you pay for, too. Same stuff, slightly different form. I guess that if you'd really want to be safe, on the legal-side of things, you'd allow only sample cover images, or those distributed to retailers... Heh, I guess piracy is tolerated when it fulfils a noble purpose.
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Last edited by ilef; Jun 19, 2012 at 03:47 PM.
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  #73  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilef View Post
Most of the scans submitted to the site are unauthorized+illegally hosted copies of copyrighted material, albeit of a reduced quality (apart from a few .png), and they are part of the "package" you pay for, too. Same stuff, slightly different form. I guess that if you'd really want to be safe, on the legal-side of things, you'd allow only sample cover images, or those distributed to retailers... Heh, I guess piracy is tolerated when it fulfils a noble purpose.
Interesting. So what exactly are you trying to prove here?
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  #74  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidAcid View Post
Interesting. So what exactly are you trying to prove here?
I'm trying to say that, with the current "status" of things, there would be no real reason to not allow the upload of something like digital booklets in their original format (mostly PDF).

Seriously, if there's fear to receive legal complaints because of them, you would be better off deleting the whole scan(s) database. While I definitely like the idea of album-art being preserved, and I've come to contribute a modest entity of scans myself (I like to think of VGMdb as some sort of museum), it's stupid to deny that most of it is part of a copyrighted product... and this copyright extends to such art, too. So, what is currently happening here is still piracy, a smaller... different... form, but still: piracy.

I always found funny (mind: funny, not wrong) how this website doesn't support piracy, yet fails to acknowledge how most of the information it gathers comes from an illegal action, such as unauthorized share/display/broadcast of album-art. EDIT: I guess such things fall under the fair-use policy, can't say I'm too happy with it, though... While a part of me is grateful for the existence of VGMdb and the likes, as previously stated, the other half thinks that this stuff should be "available" only to those who own the album... yeah... exactly how it works for the actual music.
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Last edited by ilef; Jun 19, 2012 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Small typo and expansion, sorry
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  #75  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Of course, and while we're at it, I vote for mandatory inclusion of lossless rips for every new album added. I mean, we're already in deep shit by now, so this isn't going to make a difference anyway...
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  #76  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 04:41 PM
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Nice one

If I remember correctly, Razakin once said something like the sharing of scans isn't going to give reasons to anyone to not buy the album (unlike the sharing of music)... So, using this as some kind of starting point, I'd like to ask Mirkul (and the likes): would there actually be a problem with the PDF uploads of digital booklets?

I don't mind exporting pages to various .jpg/.png files, but I remember reading somewhere on here that first we'd have to worry about completing each set of scans, then upgrade their quality, if there's a chance to do it. You'd have the possibility to get some stuff in its original, officially-released quality, I say go for it while you can... This place may actually stop to work the way it does now (as in, you might be forced to change stuff about scans)
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Last edited by ilef; Jun 19, 2012 at 04:45 PM.
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  #77  
Old Jun 20, 2012, 01:56 PM
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ilef: actually some of it would not be covered under fair use policy. The information that can be on some of the pages being factual information, sure. The front covers displayed on sites and stores, maybe. The inner art? Nope.
---

I don't agree with myrkul saying that it is part of the package you pay for. Usually in iTunes you have to buy a whole album at once to get the booklet, as if it were a bonus rather than part of the product itself. I can see where he is coming from if it is with a collector's edition of something that is downloadable and the files include the booklet.

I see both sides and think that it should be allowed at least for now. However if anything goes wrong, the PDFs can be kept on the site but instead of shown as is, can be exported into their individual scans, to be used as the art instead.

Also the PDFs can be quarantined into a non-downloadable area to be used for show only if necessary.

Since many media players lack the ability to show the digital booklets while listening to the music, I think the download of them will be pretty small.
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  #78  
Old Jun 20, 2012, 03:43 PM
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Thanks for your message, Fearin, I have to admit that I'm pretty ignorant about these legality matters, but here's what brought me to my opinion:

- An album may be split into two parts: album-art, audio.

Now, let's pretend that I've made a digital copy of an album (art+audio). If I just keep it to myself, I'm basically "fine", right? If I decide to upload the music somewhere and allow others to access, I'm welcoming trouble... Why shouldn't I suffer the same fate by doing the same thing with the album-art?

Another kind of take
I often read/hear guys spit with hate/disgust something like: "Do you want to access the music? Go and buy the album!" (sorry for being rude, but you can throw some *fuck* in there). I'd like to remind to these really smart folks, that the stuff works perfectly the other way, too: "Do you want to know about the possible information in the booklet/etc.? Purchase the goddamn thing."

How can some accuse the guy for sharing music, and defend the likes of VGMdb, which are sharing scans? I know I've made a poor choice of words, but I still sense a contradiction taking place.

What I'm going to say isn't strictly related to the matter, but I know a place where mostly complete sets of movie soundtrack/scores's album-art(s) are available for viewing & downloading (in a similar way to VGMdb). For a while all went smoothly, but one day we've read a post from the administrator which just said that due to a request from the "right guys" all the cover art from Varese Sarabande's releases got deleted, and their work was logically forbidden to be added...

Now, having witnessed that happen, I guess that labels - or those who act on their behalf - may actually go and stop you from uploading ANYTHING pertaining their releases... and, obviously, get you in some serious shit if you don't follow their 'instructions'.

VGMdb, with your current situation and past, heh, you're already eligible of the aforementioned "shit". You can't come here and tell accepting digital booklets would be like distributing illegal files and expect me to take you seriously.
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Last edited by ilef; Jun 20, 2012 at 03:52 PM.
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  #79  
Old Jun 20, 2012, 03:46 PM
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Actually we do have at least one release by Varese Sarabande in the DB:
VGMdb
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  #80  
Old Jun 20, 2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidAcid View Post
Actually we do have at least one release by Varese Sarabande in the DB:
VGMdb
We also have the Street Fighter Original Motion Picture Score (scored by Grame Revell)... and the Dragon Ball Evolution (I think the name is correct, can't remember at the moment) movie soundtrack by them.

Here at VGMdb we don't support piracy, we depend on it. Le lulz
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Last edited by ilef; Jun 20, 2012 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Small error.
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  #81  
Old Jun 20, 2012, 04:28 PM
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We don't have any plans to host PDFs here. I don't think it really fits with our information schema. While there are changes we may need to make to accommodate digital album entries, this isn't one of them. Uploading a jpg conversion of some of the information from the pdf notes is probably as close an analog to a scan for a physical album's booklet as we can get. Anyone who is uncomfortable going that far could just submit a jpg of the important pages that contain composer credits, etc.

Meanwhile, this thread has crossed into an area that's counterproductive to discuss, so let's not go any further.
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  #82  
Old Jun 20, 2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
this thread has crossed into an area that's counterproductive to discuss
Thanks for making this crystal clear, as ilef obviously wasn't catching my drift.
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  #83  
Old Jun 20, 2012, 11:59 PM
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@Secret Squirrel: Thanks for the answer. That's the kind of statement I wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidAcid View Post
Thanks for making this crystal clear, as ilef obviously wasn't catching my drift.
Oh, such arrogant assumption. I did realize you wanted me to stop, man, but... with your higher intelligence... you sure know about a thing called freedom, right? I simply didn't give a fuck.

Anyway, thank you for making crystal clear... once again... what asshole you are, Acid
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  #84  
Old Oct 22, 2012, 06:08 AM
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What is the limit for width/height pixel value when the image/scan has to be suffixed with "(small)" e.g. Front (small)?
I'm guessing it's something like 500/600 pixels, but it's never been stated clearly or I've missed it (I think it needs a tooltip in the manage covers section).

So to put it like this (just to illustrate):

500x500 px - Front
499x499 px (and of course anything lower) - Front (small)
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  #85  
Old Oct 22, 2012, 06:14 AM
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Nothing have been stated about the (small) suffix.
I am generally putting the suffix myself, it encourage contributors to provide better pictures or scan sets.

Regarding the size, i am agree to say that anything under 500 pixels can be considered as "small".
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  #86  
Old Oct 22, 2012, 06:21 AM
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OK, thanks. Although I see no harm to create "small" (XD) rule and to add a tooltip about it for a better guidance of submitters.
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  #87  
Old Oct 22, 2012, 06:46 PM
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I think maybe one day I'll add some scans for albums that are missing them. But, I'm curious about a few things.

1. What filesize do we want to accept?
2. Is there a DPI that's recommended? (200, 300, 600...)
3. Is it better to scan a booklet with the pages side-by-side, or to do one page in a single image?

I scan single pages at a time, not just laying the whole booklet down in the scanner. The reason for this is that, with booklets that have more pages, the only way you can get the booklet to be flat is to press down hard on it. Since scanners have glass material as their surface, this causes the glass to "bend" a little and your resulting image will not be as straight as you want to because the light mechanism is no longer at a 90° angle with the glass. Or, you don't press down and the booklet is not flat, so the insides of the booklet aren't of good quality. Now, if you remove the staples from a booklet, you can take the pages out and lay them completely flat. Of course, the pages are no longer side-by-side as you'd see them in the booklet, so it no longer makes sense to picture them that way. And then besides all that, I don't like having huge images I have to scroll around or that are sized down even smaller just to fit my screen, having the booklet pages one-by-one just seems nice to me.

But, how do we want booklet scans to be at VGMdb? Do we prefer them to be side-by-side? And then how big? I scan at 600DPI, and while that seems excessive, if we really want hi-res scans then I can upload at that (in JPG of course, PNG is huge).
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  #88  
Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:47 AM
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There's no real guide about the quality "we want" here.
Because we'r not searching for the ultimate quality.
The principal goal is to be able to read scans (kanjis, liner notes...etc...)

The important limit is the file size the server is accepting. Which i think is in between 4 and 5 Mb for a single file.
Though i think i said a few times in the past, 3~4 Mb for a single page is a bit too much and such size should be ok for a "double-page".


Regarding on how scans should be scanned...
Once again we'r not forcing anyone to damage their booklets, so it's up to the user.
Though if you ask me how it looks the best, it's by flatening the booklet on the glass and take the scans normaly on "double-pages" without removing the staples.

For booklets that have more than 2 pages when unfolded, i suggest to have a look at my other guide.
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  #89  
Old Oct 23, 2012, 01:06 PM
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I think 300 dpi is fine for what we want. Anything more than that is probably overkill.
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  #90  
Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:58 PM
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Yeah, resolutions above 300 dpi are great for inspecting the print patterns granularity.
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