The Darkness II Original Soundtrack

[Arcubalis]

This is a pack of MP3s in a zip file given to reviewers, as mentioned. It's not a produced soundtrack that should be listed in VGMdb. We should delete it.

[Cedille]

Does anybody remember if our DB has ever accepted such releases? I might've witnessed one or two CD-R burned album privately given to reviews or such, but am not certain.

[ilef]

Originally Posted by Cedille

Does anybody remember if our DB has ever accepted such releases? I might've witnessed one or two CD-R burned album privately given to reviews or such, but am not certain.

Something like this?

According to the notes, it was distributed only for reviews.

[Myrkul]

Yes we do have a few "CD" releases like this.
But this is the first ever in digital form.

I personally don't mind having it.. but the lack of informations about it (tracklist?) is making it pointless i think.

[Arcubalis]

I'm strongly against us having entries like this in the database. It sets a bad precedent. If this, why not game rips? I have tons of CD-Rs and packs of files that have been sent to me over the years, but they don't belong in the database. A privately pressed CD with artwork and a track list is one thing, but CD-Rs and digital file dumps are questionable at best.

I think of VGMdb as a resource for soundtrack releases. It's not a "soundtrack" database, otherwise, we should have stuff like game rips and other stuff listed.

[Arcubalis]

And to comment on the idea brought up in the Prince of Persia album discussion that was linked above in regards to a personal gift to a friend, these releases do amount to that. Even though they're being given to a couple reviewers, they're producing more copies for their friends and families and for promotional purposes in their professional careers.

This is a really interesting discussion though. I think back to things like Granado Espada and other "not for sale" for "promotional use only" releases over the years. It's a lot to think about!

[ilef]

How can the inclusion of this kind of things set a bad precedent? To me game-rips are compilations of tracks/files that the user put together unofficially... and perhaps also tagged unofficially.

On the other hand, if the MP3s are somewhat confirmed to come from an official source, they may have a place in here, in my humble opinion... even when not intended for public availability... This is a VGM releases database, one of its goals is to catalogue them all, or so I'm led to believe.

[Arcubalis]

Right, these are unofficial releases. They're not meant for public consumption. They're more in line with demos.

Like I said, I have dozens of CD-Rs of soundtracks that are titled and numbered. Doesn't mean I should add them all and be the only person in the world who has this one CD-R that somebody made for me and nobody will ever own, see, or hear. It's the difference between cataloging soundtrack releases and cataloging soundtracks. We're not cataloging soundtracks here, but releases. A CD-R or zip files given to a few people is hardly a "soundtrack release" with a date, price, catalog number, or any other information.

Also, think of it as a question as to "is this information helpful," and "Who does this database serve?" I don't think it helps an enthusiast or collector to know that a composer handed somebody a CD-R or zip file that they themselves will never be able to own and wasn't really an official distribution.

And one final note. This music often belongs to the game companies themselves. The fact that we're broadcasting that they've produced unofficial collections of music from these games and sent them out to people could get potentially get them into trouble as well.

[Arcubalis]

Another thought though. Maybe we SHOULD have a more of complete listing of the works of composers on VGMdb. Not just soundtrack releases. Could be listed on the composer pages as "other works not released" or however we want it. Would make sense because as a fan i often want to know everything a composer worked on even if it wasnt officially released.

[Gigablah]

Originally Posted by Arcubalis

Another thought though. Maybe we SHOULD have a more of complete listing of the works of composers on VGMdb. Not just soundtrack releases. Could be listed on the composer pages as "other works not released" or however we want it. Would make sense because as a fan i often want to know everything a composer worked on even if it wasnt officially released.

I agree, and our product pages are actually a first step towards that. Next is to resume work on the tracks/tracklist restructure...

[Chris]

I'm not sure if Arcubalis has listened, but this wasn't a random pack of MP3s. Instead, it is a properly ordered/numbered and well-presented digital soundtrack release. Tim wants to officially release it, but it depends a lot on labels whether this happens. Anyway, it's just as legitimate a soundtrack as the physical promos we include, e.g. Alpha Protocol. The thing to consider is 'should we include release with limited distribution', not 'is this a soundtrack at all' in this case. I don't mind providing more info if it gets approved.

[Secret Squirrel]

I would venture to guess that every soundtrack to every game ever made was probably released privately in some format (digital, CD, tape) to someone by the composer. Mostly they were probably for internal evaluation, but some external as well, such as in the case of this album, for reviewers. I don't think we would ever catalog the internal releases here. This seems like it might be a prototype for a future release.

Really though, what throws a monkey wrench into everything is "Digital." If this were a pressed CD, we wouldn't have any question about including it.

On the topic of composers, product-linking is coming soon. But first, we need to hammer out the list of roles (and possibly subroles) I will get back to working on that when I return next week.

[Chris]

The newly submitted track list is completely wrong. It features all original music by Tim Wynn. But I won't change it if the entry is going to be deactivated.

As for digital, I don't know why this makes a difference? 90% of Western releases are digital these days.

[Arcubalis]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm not sure if Arcubalis has listened, but this wasn't a random pack of MP3s. Instead, it is a properly ordered/numbered and well-presented digital soundtrack release. Tim wants to officially release it, but it depends a lot on labels whether this happens. Anyway, it's just as legitimate a soundtrack as the physical promos we include, e.g. Alpha Protocol. The thing to consider is 'should we include release with limited distribution', not 'is this a soundtrack at all' in this case. I don't mind providing more info if it gets approved.

I've listened, it's great. It doesn't belong on VGMdb. As Secret Squirrel notes, nearly everything has been compiled and given to somebody as a soundtrack at some point. The question is is it a proper release. I don't think private email constitutes a release.

I think these entries are being created to provide an opportunity to link to a review of that work, which I understand, but if it's not a proper soundtrack release, VGMdb, in it's current state, shouldn't host an entry for it. It's a bad precedent for allowing all kinds of items like this to flood the database, and as a fan, I don't particularly care that a composer emailed you the soundtrack that will never see the light of day. This database should serve the game music enthusiast more than it should websites publishing reviews.

[Myrkul]

I guess we should deactivate this entry.
I think that cataloging "private" releases in digital form is going too far, as there are hundreds of this kind we don't even know about (and probably never will).
I am also agree that is not really helpfull to the database and their users as this kind of private gifts are unique.

For me this is different to "composers' gifts/review only" CDs like this or this because i have seen these CDs for sale on Ebay at least. While such digital releases won't be available anywhere unless they are released officially.

[Cedille]

I basically agree with what Arcubalis said, and I'm more concerned about the "intention" behind this album (regardless of whether it could be called as an album) than media format. While we might lack a substantial definition of "release", if composers are just making zip files or CD-R for the sake of reviewing, it wouldn't be regarded as a "release" and it's much closer to youtube samples or game rips, neither of which we'd accept. In other words,　if it's intended as releases, being digital or a poorly pressed CD-R doesn't matter.

[Ramza]

I'm agreed that this entry shouldn't be listed until such a time as the soundtrack is released (or announced for release) to people that *aren't* reviewers.