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  #31  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 02:48 PM
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I like having something that lets me know if a composer has created new material for an album or not. It's often simple math. If all tracks that a composer has on an album are arranged by one or more other people, they didn't create new material. There are exceptions, but it's rare (Daisuke Ishiwatari, for example). And for those exceptions, that's where the ear comes in. However, there's currently no way to mark these cases other than using the featured checkbox.

Now, as for whether the original composer was involved with the making of the album or not, that's irrelevant as far as what I'm looking for in the first paragraph.

If you want to rework what the featured checkbox means, be my guest. However, I would still like some way of separating albums that only feature arrangements of a composer's work out from the ones that actually feature new compositions. Even if it's something that's more supplemental information than anything official, it's still useful.

EDIT: Changed some things.

Last edited by Kaleb.G; Mar 10, 2010 at 02:54 PM.
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  #32  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 03:58 PM
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As Dag said, I think the question is how the album appear in the discography of the composers. Therefore, I agree that it would be more interesting that something (perhaps another checkbox?) indicate when the album is a new material of the composer.

A possibility is create a new color coding for the roles "Composer", "Arranger", "Performer" and "Lyricist" in the profiles to indicate whether it is a new material or not.

For example, Nobuo Uematsu:

1988 12.21 All Sounds of Final Fantasy I • II H25X-20015
Composer

1989 07.25 Symphonic Suite Final Fantasy H28X-10007
Composer

1992 11.28 Game Music Concert 2 ~ The Best Selection WPCL-709
Composer, Arranger

1996 03.25 Super Mario RPG Original Sound Version PSCN-5047~8
Composer

Green = new material
Blue = old material (arranged by composer himself, by someone etc.)

The problem is that there are many albums with original soundtracks and arranged and also this might not be very pleasant to see.

Last edited by Revoc; Mar 10, 2010 at 08:58 PM.
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  #33  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
I think the problem would still remain - some wouldn't like to link to the originals as that'd be essentially "featured" (ex. Uematsu here).
I guess I don't understand this particular issue at all. Uematsu composed the original tracks which were arranged in this example, and that's it. Why this dancing with "featured" and what do people want to have here that isn't there?

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Originally Posted by Dag View Post
Besides track-linking sounds like ginormous amount of work with added problems, like which'd be the originals in reissued osts? (ex.- here and here)
Reissues are originals as well. The original tracks in the case of VGM come from games, so different recordings/masterings/lengths of that doesn't make one version original and the other fake or something. Think of the originals as products, they can appear on multiple media without ceasing to be originals. If there are multiple versions of originals collectors tend to prefer the oldest appearance, but this doesn't mean the rest is invalid.

Last edited by Datschge; Mar 10, 2010 at 06:23 PM.
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  #34  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revoc View Post
The problem is that there are many albums with original soundtracks and arranged
I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Visually speaking, I have no problem with a few more colors. We could even do something different than foreground color, such as a darker background, if the person coding is up to it.
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  #35  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 07:40 PM
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I'm sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. For example, The Black Mages II The Skies Above. This album has 11 tracks: ten are arranged and one is an original composition, "Blue Blast - Winning the Rainbow". In this album, I prefer that Nobuo Uematsu's name was assigned that he made a new material, but I think most people would not because most music is arranged.
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  #36  
Old Mar 11, 2010, 09:22 AM
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So it's both. What's the problem with that?

I think the biggest advantage of having per track credits is that the resulting album credits can be autogenerated, which again could be used to allow visitors to set their list display preferences. I'd prefer to know all albums to which a composer contributed new compositions. Others may prefer a list were new versions of a composer's music are featured. Again others may prefer just to see a list of new arrangements of a specific musician etc. etc. Trying to achieve this kind of flexibility by manually adding specific tags on an album level seems like a waste of time to me due to its inherent inflexibility.
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  #37  
Old Mar 11, 2010, 11:37 AM
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For TBM2 since there it has new material I'd go with non-featured = shown in discography (or maybe 'both'?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datschge View Post
I guess I don't understand this particular issue at all. Uematsu composed the original tracks which were arranged in this example, and that's it. Why this dancing with "featured" and what do people want to have here that isn't there?
The problem is how "featured" is used/understood/shown, which affects per-track credits anyway.

If you'd link per track to FF originals (or mark them "arranged") = essentially "featured" ('old stuff') per-track = TBM1 would be listed (as of now) with doujins = people don't like that. That's what I mean the core problem is the same (also: there isn't always an original to link, you'd still mark 'arranged'='featured' some tracks).

In doujins, artist "featured" = 'reused old stuff', so in regular albums it should mean the same imo. The dancing here is that right now it doesn't and we don't agree on it (mainly because of how it's listed I believe).

You say the artist listing would be auto-generated and could be changed on the fly. So the current display style would have to be changed, which we are discussing as well... no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Datschge View Post
Think of the originals as products, they can appear on multiple media without ceasing to be originals.
Oh yeah completely I agree. I just meant "linking to the (single) original track" can be messy when several albums 'are/have' the original, but on a second thought you could link to more than one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Datschge View Post
Trying to achieve this kind of flexibility by manually adding specific tags on an album level seems like a waste of time to me due to its inherent inflexibility.
Well... linking to originals/arrange marks per track = manually adding tags per track (but more detailed/harder), rather than per artist. The flexibility is the same, just on a lesser scale (either way you could know he did new stuff, just not which one on a glance). We all (?) agree having per-track info would great but until then...
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  #38  
Old Mar 11, 2010, 12:40 PM
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Dag, thank you for the clarification. (I wasn't aware it was all about that "featured on" section of artists, I though it was just a simple throw away section to separate the "lesser" doujins from the "superior" rest, i.e. a hack. I'd just suggest to fix this the right way, which is why the current discussion simply irritated me.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
If you'd link per track to FF originals (or mark them "arranged") = essentially "featured" ('old stuff') per-track = TBM1 would be listed (as of now) with doujins = people don't like that.
SS mentioned before that other sound related credits should ideally be eventually included in the database as well. So in the case of TBM1 Uematsu could get a credit as producer. If the visitor gets to choose what a discography of his definition should contain (composed, arranged, arranged by others) such additional credits could be offered as well (produced, directed, programmed etc.).

Last edited by Datschge; Mar 11, 2010 at 12:44 PM.
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  #39  
Old Mar 11, 2010, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revoc View Post
I'm sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. For example, The Black Mages II The Skies Above. This album has 11 tracks: ten are arranged and one is an original composition, "Blue Blast - Winning the Rainbow". In this album, I prefer that Nobuo Uematsu's name was assigned that he made a new material, but I think most people would not because most music is arranged.
Well, I agree with you here. Even if he only made one new track, he should still be marked as having new material for the album.

But as Datschge mentioned, when we have the new track schemas set up, we could provide this information on a track by track basis and have it autogenerated on the album level. I'd prefer that.
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