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  #61  
Old Aug 8, 2009, 10:36 AM
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I'm going to have to reinforce the couple other posts here but for use with EAC / other CD Ripping programs, this really should use disc id instead of matching up track times. I realize this probably requires a modification to the database and possibly the programming, but the quicker it happens the better, imo. After all, it is cddb, not mp3db
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  #62  
Old Aug 9, 2009, 04:44 AM
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It looks like we've got slots in the database for both lossy and the official disc id. I'm fuzzy about what the process would be to go about gathering those up.

There's probably some other metadata that we should add such as fractional tracktimes, and maybe the gain per channel.
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  #63  
Old Aug 9, 2009, 05:00 AM
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Using the discid directly would certainly be a lot more efficient, but since discids aren't fully recorded in the database yet, tracktime matching is a stopgap measure. Soon we'll have an upgrade to the media/tracklist interface that will allow you to specify the discid (or even better, upload a cuesheet that'll fill in discids and tracklist info all at once).
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  #64  
Old Aug 9, 2009, 05:18 AM
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Word. I'd be more than happy to help out with supplying the DISCID for a bunch of albums since I'm getting ready to rip my entire collection to lossless anyway. Any idea when track-by-track artist info will become a reality? If we could get that, the DISCID matching, and especially the cuesheet uploading that Blah mentioned, we'd be all set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
I'm going to have to reinforce the couple other posts here but for use with EAC / other CD Ripping programs, this really should use disc id instead of matching up track times. I realize this probably requires a modification to the database and possibly the programming, but the quicker it happens the better, imo. After all, it is cddb, not mp3db
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  #65  
Old Aug 9, 2009, 05:55 AM
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What fields would the discid info require? Is it basically the TOC information?
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  #66  
Old Aug 9, 2009, 06:29 AM
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Check out this Wikipedia entry. I actually just ripped a CD and checked it's DISCID against this info, and it decoded perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl View Post
What fields would the discid info require? Is it basically the TOC information?
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  #67  
Old Aug 9, 2009, 06:40 AM
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Incidentally, when you generate a cuesheet using EAC, it automatically includes the discid. Not sure if that holds for other applications.
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  #68  
Old Aug 14, 2009, 02:27 AM
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Example album: Umihara Kawase Soundtrack [SRIN-1043]

This album has one audio CD and a bonus DVD with gameplay footage. Both discs have media entries, but only the actual soundtrack CD has a tracklist. However, when you freedb up the album, the title appears as "Umihara Kawase Soundtrack (Disc 1)" because there are two discs, even though there's only one actual soundtrack disc. In a way it's not really inaccurate, but it's kind of weird.

Can you make it so it only counts CD media when deciding whether or not to add the disc number to the album title? Or some other approach to the same effect, checking the number of discs in the tracklist, etc.
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  #69  
Old Aug 14, 2009, 06:34 AM
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I noticed there are differences in tracktimes between foobar and winamp. I tried it with this cd which also has data track. The Foobar tracklist i get is

Code:
01 山王時の遺産 1:46
02 彼女の声は届かない 2:07
03 人形部屋の少女 1:53
04 許されるために従え 2:05
05 溺れあう海 2:08
06 女たちの住む家 2:18
07 その中心には空虚がある 2:20
08 たとえままごとであっても 1:48
09 急変 1:54
10 夢見ることもなく 1:57
11 今は目を閉じて 1:51
the winamp tracklist
Code:
01 山王時の遺産 1:45
02 彼女の声は届かない 2:07
03 人形部屋の少女 1:53
04 許されるために従え 2:05
05 溺れあう海 2:08
06 女たちの住む家 2:18
07 その中心には空虚がある 2:19
08 たとえままごとであっても 1:48
09 急変 1:53
10 夢見ることもなく 1:57
11 今は目を閉じて 1:52
Both are without the data track which I can with EAC estimate to either 27:46 or 27:47 (it's 27:46.70). Tried all sorts of combinations, none of them are recognized by EAC.

on another note: Winamp was able to get info from CDDB, foobar didnt get anything from freedb but I always assumed this was because it didnt include the data track. Is the foobar tracklist incorrect?

Last edited by Teioh; Aug 14, 2009 at 06:37 AM.
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  #70  
Old Aug 16, 2009, 09:42 PM
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I would not say incorrect, by your example foobar rounds up the length of the tracks differently.

Foobar: FreeDB is by Disc length and DiscID
Winamp: CDDB can be either by individual tracks or Disc length or ID.

I'm saying that taking my own experience.
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  #71  
Old Aug 22, 2009, 07:28 AM
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A script update was uploaded yesterday. It contains:

Improved query performance and a disc length bugfix
Query works with both disc and non-disc sources again
Added ja.utf8 language option for returning Japanese in UTF-8
Fixed disc title issue for mixed releases (thanks to CHz for pointing that out)

I have confirmed that it now works with:
EAC, CDex, MP3Tag, foobar

Currently, foobar support is partial as there is an issue with queries that return multiple results. So, for example, every album with a reprint fails when trying to tag it from foobar. I'm trying to contact the plugin's author to find out if the issue is on my end or not (the error message output is too vague to be helpful).

TODO:
Pregap/data track implementation
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  #72  
Old Aug 22, 2009, 08:09 AM
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Thumb up for you,mate.
GOOD JOB.
When blah finish that track-by-track credit table the cddb will be perfect!
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  #73  
Old Aug 23, 2009, 12:03 PM
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I have been testing the implementation since yesterday, 95% of my CD's retrieved the info from the VGMdb server no problem, flawless.

Good work Zorbfish,

Thank You!!
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  #74  
Old Sep 8, 2009, 08:25 PM
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I just tried this on Ragnarok Online Complete Soundtrack Disc 1 and it doesn't seem to be working. The track times are correct for this disc. I'm using XLD. Has anyone else used either of these?
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  #75  
Old Sep 8, 2009, 09:10 PM
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XLD? Guess it's another client incompatibility. I used EAC and it worked fine.
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  #76  
Old Sep 8, 2009, 11:32 PM
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The question is, are the other 4 CD's getting the info from vgmdb or is it only Disc 01 having problems?

If the other CD's have got the info from vgmdb then I see no problems concerning the client you are using, as Giga said and I confirm due a test done, all 5 CD's are getting the info from vgmdb without any problems.
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  #77  
Old Sep 8, 2009, 11:48 PM
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Question, is it possible to make this query so that it won't take the catalogue number with it on the album tag, atleast on my foobar it decides to do that.
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  #78  
Old Sep 9, 2009, 12:24 AM
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I think it is a standard VGMdb wants to create in order to make easy for you to choose the album you own, an example, reprints or bootlegs may have different names, also in contrast, it is important to leave as it is in order to keep it sorted by catalogue number. You can always change that automatically by scripts or manual all at once using Foobar.
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  #79  
Old Sep 9, 2009, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
Question, is it possible to make this query so that it won't take the catalogue number with it on the album tag, atleast on my foobar it decides to do that.
You mean in the title? I can take that out if people prefer it (same with disc number), I just put it there to give a complete description of each disc.

*EDIT

Kaleb
Yes, please do confirm whether its just one disc or all of them that fail for you. Is this the first album that it has happened with?

Last edited by Zorbfish; Sep 9, 2009 at 01:51 AM.
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  #80  
Old Sep 9, 2009, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorbfish View Post
You mean in the title? I can take that out if people prefer it (same with disc number), I just put it there to give a complete description of each disc.
Yeah in the title, and it's more of a pet peeve, especially to someone who uses Last.fm also, would hate to see albums named '[cat. #] album title' in there. And as Metroid already said, it's not hard for me to just re-edit the tags after getting the information. But I'm just so damn lazy.

But basically, you can disregard my question, it's not like I use foobar often to listen cds. :P

Probably should have asked if that was a feature or a just odd error or something.
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  #81  
Old Sep 9, 2009, 09:23 AM
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I tried Discs 2 & 3 and those had problems as well, even after making sure the times were correct. I'll keep trying this and using other albums as well. Maybe XLD just requires something special that VGMdb isn't providing.
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  #82  
Old Sep 10, 2009, 12:34 PM
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Well I would like to start pointing out an important thing, yes it is related to CDDB / freedb track-list-length times.

First is a question started by Teioh right here http://vgmdb.net/forums/showpost.php...8&postcount=69 , after researching for some days I came to a conclusion that many albums here at VGMdb need to be re-updated to exact match its official DiscID. I will also clarify / answer his question about Winamp and Foobar.

Foobar and Winamp are media Players.

The question that you are probably wondering is how do I do it? It is simple, first you need to understand why this is important for the VGMdb and for us. Suppose you want to retrieve the information of your CD from the VGMdb server and suddenly you find out that the service is not working and the question is, why is it not working?

The problem could be due to many issues, first it could be related to hidden tracks, incorrect Track-list order and or track-length / duration etc...

VGMdb is based on the Stigmergy and Trust mechanisms, so it is important to keep that way because if it was not then I bet you would not be here.

DiscID is another important thing that you need to understand, basically matching the official DiscID is what we should be really after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
CDDB1 identifies CDs with a 32-bit number, usually displayed as a hexadecimal number containing 8 digits: XXYYYYZZ. The first two digits (labelled XX) represent a checksum based on the starting times of each track on the CD, mod 255. The next four digits (YYYY) represent the total time of the CD in seconds from the start of the first track to the end of the last track. The last two digits (ZZ) represent the number of tracks on the CD.
Read more right here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDDB#Ex...eDB.29_disc_ID

Most albums at VGMdb have a DiscID except the ones that were not filled yet. This is not about having DiscID's, this is about having the right / official DiscID and how can we get it? There are many ways of getting it, you could get it by using a free software called Exact Audio Copy which helps you to rip your CD as well create a cue file:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
A cue sheet, or cue file, is a meta-data file which describes how the tracks of a CD or DVD are laid out. Cue sheets are stored as plain text files and commonly have a ".cue" file-name extension. CDRWIN first introduced cue sheets, which are now supported by many optical disc authoring applications and media players.
Read more right here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_sheet_%28computing%29

Is the official album DiscID really important?

I would say that is the goal we are trying to achieve. The DiscID is composed of total tracks, checksums(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check), disc and track lengths. It is important to note that the CD's stored information is the DiscID.

So what do I need to help VGMdb out on this quest?

It is really simple, an original game album CD, the Exact Audio Copy(EAC) software which can be downloaded freely at http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ and for track-list and length I would recommend Foobar for extreme precision. I will be explaining why Foobar is required soon.

Another important thing that I think should be enforced is, cue file submissions while submitting track-list and length times concerning many albums just to check the authenticity of the submission, right but how can I submit it? This is for the Administrators to decide.

Teioh gave an example some days ago of how Winamp and Foobar differs concerning rounding up numbers, now I want to clarify this, Winamp conserves the second regardless of the milliseconds whereas Foobar uses the US / European Standard example, somebody told me that Asian and South America rounding-up numbers are different somehow, not sure about that.

Minutes:Seconds:Milliseconds

Example 1:

Winamp 01:39:10 = 01:39
Foobar: 01:39:10 = 01:39

Example 2:

Winamp 01:39:49 = 01:39
Foobar: 01:39:49 = 01:39

Example 3:

Winamp 01:39:50 = 01:39
Foobar: 01:39:50 = 01:40

Example 4:

Winamp 01:39:51 = 01:39
Foobar: 01:39:51 = 01:40

Example 5:

Winamp 01:39:89 = 01:39
Foobar: 01:39:89 = 01:40

So what does that all mean?

It means that Foobar is the best tool for you to help VGMdb out with tracklists, track, disc and time durations.

An important note is, do not use Winamp to retrieve track-length duration. It will be incorrect and therefore will result in a different incorrect DiscID.

A good example of how to use Foobar in order to get the track-length and track-list was given by Gigablah right into this thread http://vgmdb.net/forums/showpost.php...32&postcount=3 , the plug-in component tool you need was first pointed out by Cypher right at http://vgmdb.net/forums/showpost.php...84&postcount=8 . The Exact Audio Copy software can also be used to get track times and track-lists, also to check gaps, cyclic redundancy check, cue files and much more.

Foobar can be downloaded right here http://www.foobar2000.org
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  #83  
Old Sep 10, 2009, 03:18 PM
Zorbfish Zorbfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleb.G View Post
I tried Discs 2 & 3 and those had problems as well, even after making sure the times were correct. I'll keep trying this and using other albums as well. Maybe XLD just requires something special that VGMdb isn't providing.
OK, thanks for the info. XLD is open source so I can take a look into their query routines to see what the problem is when I have the chance. But if I can't see any issues with the source itself that's about all I can do I'm afraid; I don't own a Mac so I can't test it myself (unless someone wants to donate a cheap used machine ;D).
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  #84  
Old Sep 10, 2009, 04:02 PM
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I thought much of this has already been stated, but I guess I need to do it again.

1. Discid matching has been in the script since day 1. In fact, it currently records any discids sent to it already and stores them for use in future matching. The script performs matching on both discids and track times to ensure all possible matches are caught and returned to the user to choose which disc to read. What does not exist as far as I know is a way for public submission. Perhaps it's already implemented on the staff-side, that I do not know.

2. Track time rounding is accounted for when trying to match against tracks. Whether you round up or down does not matter. I personally do not round it up or down and just drop the frame count. Only if a track length is off by more than 3 seconds does the match fail. CDDB/freedb uses a more complex method for fuzzy matching but does essentially the same thing.

3. There are going to be discs that will fail in the db. These albums are ones that contain pre-gap (track 0) tracks and data tracks. Redbooks will fall into this category as well...

As an example, WOODSOFT's Altis will fail when reading from the (physical) disc because it has a small data track at the end which is not listed here. To fix this we could add the data track to the end of this tracklist but then it breaks for someone who searches using only the audio data (sans data track). Our goal is to support both transparently. This will require the reimplementation of the track/tracklist table that Gigablah is working on. Once it is done I will fix this.
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  #85  
Old Sep 11, 2009, 11:56 AM
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There are albums like http://vgmdb.net/album/4772 ,Akumajo Dracula X ~Nocturne in the Moonlight~ Original Game Soundtrack which had an erroneous track-length, track 10 officially is exactly 2:21, somebody submitted it as to contain only 2:00 minutes of music.

Sakura Wars Complete Song Box http://vgmdb.net/album/7824 had the same thing, 2 tracks had 30 seconds missing, another 2 had more than the official one's. I'm trying to fix it as much as can.

The submission of official cue files is a must for future references.
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  #86  
Old Sep 11, 2009, 12:49 PM
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cue files may not give you complete information. They only denote the starting times of each track, so depending on how you organize your rip, you will probably end up without the length of the last track. We'll need TOC information.
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  #87  
Old Sep 12, 2009, 02:51 AM
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You are right, "cue files may not give you complete information", but that is the best way around for people to contribute. EAC is widely used, cue files are becoming more and more popular. I would not expect people using another program to only get the lead-in table of contents.

VGMdb staff can always check the credibility of cue files, it is not that hard to figure out if it is credible or not, suppose VGMdb keep the files somewhere only visible for / to the staff, now imagine how many contributions VGMdb will receive of the same album, so it is up to the staff to decide whether or not is a true cue file and then leave the one they decide.

As it stands, few programs can get the table of contents from the CD, also TOC submissions would not be a good idea since it calls too much attention from media publishers and companies which might lead to future implications. That is the same reason why the EAC author removed the "Retrieve Native TOC" feature.

Quote:
The german magazin c't published an article whether EAC is or is not violating a german law against circumvention of copy protections on audio CDs. Some of the experts they asked had the opinion that the function of retrieving the native TOC is working at the limit of legality, at best. Due to that article and to eliminate any possibility of legal problems, I decided to remove that function (although I am pretty sure that it is absolutely legal). I always try to make sure to be fully compliant with german law, even if I would interpret the law absolutely differently.
Anyway, there are at least some few bug-fixes in this update, e.g. creating an image having the artist and CD title as filename will now show the file dialog properly when special characters are used.
For the next version it is still planned to add test & copy of CD images and for the version after that I will try to implement Unicode support for freedb queries and main window display and edit.
I am sorry about all this, but please understand my point of view.
Personally I think that the best combo for the majority of users is EAC + cue files + Foobar and I also think we should follow the trendy.

VGMdb could leave a default cue file, doing this users can see if it matches what they have, if it does not match then they would may submit it.

This is a TOC sample from Program 1:

Code:
CD_DA

CD_TEXT {
  LANGUAGE_MAP {
    0: 9
  }
  LANGUAGE 0 {
    TITLE "7"
    PERFORMER ""
    SIZE_INFO { 0,  1, 47,  0, 63, 68,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0,
                0,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0,  3, 133,  0,  0,  0,
                0,  0,  0,  0,  9,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0}
  }
}

// Track 1
TRACK AUDIO
NO COPY
NO PRE_EMPHASIS
TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
CD_TEXT {
  LANGUAGE 0 {
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
  }
}
FILE "C:/7.bin" 0 03:34:47


// Track 2
TRACK AUDIO
NO COPY
NO PRE_EMPHASIS
TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
CD_TEXT {
  LANGUAGE 0 {
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
  }
}
FILE "C:/7.bin" 0 03:34:47 03:34:47 03:22:23
START 00:02:38


// Track 3
TRACK AUDIO
NO COPY
NO PRE_EMPHASIS
TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
CD_TEXT {
  LANGUAGE 0 {
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
  }
}
FILE "C:/7.bin" 0 03:34:47 06:56:70 01:08:00
START 00:01:15


// Track 4
TRACK AUDIO
NO COPY
NO PRE_EMPHASIS
TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
CD_TEXT {
  LANGUAGE 0 {
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
  }
}
FILE "C:/7.bin" 0 03:34:47 08:04:70 01:18:42
START 00:00:70

This is a TOC sample from Program 2:

Code:
    TRACK 01 AUDIO
      INDEX 01 00:00:00
      REM MSF: 00:00:00 = LBA: 0
    TRACK 02 AUDIO
      INDEX 01 03:37:10
      REM MSF: 03:37:10 = LBA: 16285
    TRACK 03 AUDIO
      INDEX 01 06:58:10
      REM MSF: 06:58:10 = LBA: 31360
    TRACK 04 AUDIO
      INDEX 01 08:05:65
      REM MSF: 08:05:65 = LBA: 36440
This is a CUE sample:

Code:
 TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
    INDEX 00 03:34:47
    INDEX 01 03:37:10
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
    INDEX 00 06:56:70
    INDEX 01 06:58:10
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE ""
    PERFORMER ""
    INDEX 00 08:04:70
    INDEX 01 08:05:65
As a normal user, I would prefer the CUE file all the way. As a computer Engineer the TOC file would be a much better option but I would never discard the cue file or the way around.
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  #88  
Old Sep 12, 2009, 03:26 AM
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Tip: latest EAC version with that feature: 0.95 beta 3.
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  #89  
Old Sep 18, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Hey Zorb, have been fixing and updating tracktimes, all was going well till I got into this album http://vgmdb.net/album/10278 . It has only 2 tracks, its official DiscID 0E017A02. I have used and tested on all the other freedb databases and it gets the info no problem. VGMdb freedb fails on this album. I used 2 different programs, EAC and Foobar. I'm not requesting anything. I just want to let you know about the problem.

Edit: I'm making a list as I go through this.

Albums that did not work:

http://vgmdb.net/album/10278
http://vgmdb.net/album/14027

These 2 albums below are reprints, it only gets the tracklist of the first release http://vgmdb.net/album/37. Although the tracklist is the same for all of them, most reprints use the same tracklists so basically it should get the first release and reprint versions. Using EAC or Foobar I can actually choose the Catalogue version I own or its correspondent CD version. For example the album I own is the PSCN-5015~6, so it should be on the EAC or Foobar selection album the "[PSCN-5015~6] Final Fantasy V Original Sound Version" and the other reprints. There is only the "[N33D-013~4] Final Fantasy V Original Sound Version" on the selection album field.

http://vgmdb.net/album/4019
http://vgmdb.net/album/4020
http://vgmdb.net/album/2702

Last edited by Metroid; Sep 24, 2009 at 11:30 AM.
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  #90  
Old Sep 24, 2009, 11:25 AM
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I think I figure out why the info is not being retrieved by some albums. That will surely help you to fix the problem I'm having with some albums.

Take Bahamut Lagoon Disc 2 as a good example:

http://vgmdb.net/album/2702 Disc 2

The Disc 2 as follow:

This is the right tracktime.

01 2:17
02 2:48
03 0:21
04 0:18

No matter what I was doing I could not get the info from VGMdb freedb server, even though the tracktimes were correct.

So what did I do?

Simple I just changed the track 04 to 0:17, and there I had it, now I know the problem exactly.

Some albums do not work if the tracktimes match it precisely.

I tried with the album http://vgmdb.net/album/10278

The correct tracktime is as follow.

01 CHRONO TRIGGER ~Orchestra Version~ 2:08
02 CHRONO TRIGGER MEDLEY ~Orchestra Version~ 4:11

By the example above I could not get the info from VGMdb server.

It has only 2 tracks. so my first test was "if I edit only track 1" for example.

01 CHRONO TRIGGER ~Orchestra Version~ 2:07
02 CHRONO TRIGGER MEDLEY ~Orchestra Version~ 4:11

So what did I do?

Simple I tried it again by editing the tracktime of the track 02 as well for example:

01 CHRONO TRIGGER ~Orchestra Version~ 2:07
02 CHRONO TRIGGER MEDLEY ~Orchestra Version~ 4:10

By the example above I could get the info from VGMdb server no problem.

So what is the catch?

Simple it looks like some albums will not work if the tracktimes are precisely correct, mostly are albums with less than 8 tracks. I'm still testing.

Last edited by Metroid; Sep 24, 2009 at 11:32 AM.
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