NW10102720: Ys Origin Original Sound Track

[Kaleb.G]

How many of these tracks are arrangements of previous Ys music, and how many tracks are new?

[Carl]

Having beaten the game, it's mostly entirely new material, with only around 3~4 reused classics from what I remember.

[Kaleb.G]

Originally Posted by Carl

Having beaten the game, it's mostly entirely new material, with only around 3~4 reused classics from what I remember.

That's good to know. I really like this album, but not being completely familiar with the older Ys soundtracks, I was afraid this might be mostly be arrangements. Not that it's a bad thing, but there might be another soundtrack (such as the original) I'd prefer in such a case.

[Kaleb.G]

Anyone know if this is available anywhere to buy? I can't believe it's already sold out. I should have grabbed it sooner. ={

[Crash]

For Falcom soundtracks, your best bet is VGM World:

http://www.vgmworld.com/catalog/inde...&item_num=1184

[Kaleb.G]

Originally Posted by Crash

For Falcom soundtracks, your best bet is VGM World:

http://www.vgmworld.com/catalog/inde...&item_num=1184

Thank you so much! I thought I had checked VGMWorld a while back ago and couldn't find it for sale. I've already went ahead and bought this. I'll be adding this link to the album page too. =}

[SimonJXZ]

I know the original question is really old, but if you go back through the first two Ys games, you'll find that a number of the songs are remade, and vastly remade at that - the original games go back to the NES/Famicom. Ys Origin was created as a prequel to the entire series, and contains people, places, things, etc found in the original games (meant to come after Origins chronologically), so I suppose it's appropriate for Origins to have rearranged music from those games.

The following are songs that are rearranged from Ys I:
107 TOWER OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH [Yuzo Koshiro]
112 FEENA [Yuzo Koshiro]
113 DEVIL'S WIND [Yuzo Koshiro]
116 TENSION [Yuzo Koshiro]
203 DREAMING [Yuzo Koshiro]
208 OVER DRIVE [Yuzo Koshiro]
209 THE LAST MOMENT OF THE DARK [Yuzo Koshiro]

The following are songs that are rearranged from Ys II:
119 SO MUCH FOR TODAY [Mieko Ishikawa]
210 TERMINATION [Yuzo Koshiro]
211 MEMORY OF SALMON (a completely new version of the original PALACE OF SALMON) [Hideya Nagata]

I put the composers next to the track names because they actually aren't credited on this soundtrack for having composed the original song way back when (literally in the 80s, now 25 years ago). They should probably be added as featured composers, with the spiffy blue text and all, but I'll let someone with better editing practice do that if they'd like. The composer information is from the soundtrack entries we have here for the original two soundtracks.
http://vgmdb.net/album/1280
http://vgmdb.net/album/1279

To throw a little bit of opinion in here: the version of DREAMING found on this soundtrack is a real winner. Every time I get into my Falcom mode and go back to Ys music, I get stuck listening to that song in a loop for a long time. It's probably my favorite song on this soundtrack. Also, I'm quite disappointed that the soundtrack doesn't feature the endings that the game OGGs had. In fact, it's completely backwards: the game OGGs end properly, but you'll never hear the endings in-game, whereas the soundtrack has bland fade-outs, and it's the version you'll actually be listening to.

[Argentis]

Over Drive is also on the Super Arrange Album so should Koshiro have a blue credit there also?

[niki]

They should be listed plain out as composers if anything, and not as "blue" featured, to be honest. Just like it was done for the Felghana soundtrack.

You rarely (ever ?) get acknowledgements from Falcom that Yuzo Koshiro (and others) composed all these classics 'cause of the "sound team JDK" contract they had back then they always avoided paying any royalties to him. ^^;

And yeah, Over Drive is Koshiro too.

http://raborak.com/saladedemais/falc...omposers-songs

[SimonJXZ]

Originally Posted by niki

They should be listed plain out as composers if anything, and not as "blue" featured, to be honest.

Isn't their work being featured though? They didn't take any part in this project, others just rearranged their work.

[niki]

I was taking the Mieko Ishikawa example from this: http://vgmdb.net/album/1702

But I guess maybe she actually took part in the album, since she still works for Falcom ?

Also, in that case, Koshiro should only ever be credited for the PC88/98 versions of his Falcom work, 'cause I don't think he ever ported anything else himself.

Blerg. Note footer material, I'd say.

[SimonJXZ]

Mieko Ishikawa composed Ys III in 1989. She retired from Sound Team J.D.K. in 1997. Felghana was released in 2005. I can't imagine she had anything to do with any of the arrangements at that point. She should be a featured composer on the Felghana soundtrack. Likewise, Koshiro left Falcom completely even earlier, in the 80s, so he had no part in future arrangements of his songs as well.

As far as the original Ys soundtracks I linked are concerned: the products fields list the MSX, NEC PC-88, NEC PC-98 versions of the game as the represented versions. Whether or not that's true... I don't know. It's an interesting point, whether or not ports should be considered arrangements - and whether or not that means the composer should only be featured. I'm actually pretty glad I don't have to try and deal with that concept for this soundtrack

[Hellacia]

Originally Posted by SimonJXZ

211 MEMORY OF SALMON (a completely new version of the original PALACE OF SALMON) [Mieko Ishikawa]

I'm tripping so hard on this right now. I loved the track in Ys Origin and never knew this, or really, any of the stuff you listed, were arrangements. I'm listening to the PC-88 version of Palace of Salmon right now, and man is it awesome.

Ishikawa and Koshiro wrote some great stuff for Ys back in the day. I'm going to have to check the old soundtracks out.

[Foxhack]

Originally Posted by Hellacia

I'm tripping so hard on this right now. I loved the track in Ys Origin and never knew this, or really, any of the stuff you listed, were arrangements. I'm listening to the PC-88 version of Palace of Salmon right now, and man is it awesome.

Ishikawa and Koshiro wrote some great stuff for Ys back in the day. I'm going to have to check the old soundtracks out.

... really? I recognized the song as being based on an earlier tune immediately after heard it on Origin, but I wasn't sure which song it was. >_>

[Hellacia]

...really? Then you must have heard like one other Ys soundtrack besides Felghana ever. Yes, I was quite surprised because I wasn't familiar with anything other than Felghana back when I'd first played Origins.

*goes back to listening to Palace of Salmon*

[Cedille]

Originally Posted by SimonJXZ

211 MEMORY OF SALMON (a completely new version of the original PALACE OF SALMON) [Mieko Ishikawa]

I put the composers next to the track names because they actually aren't credited on this soundtrack for having composed the original song way back when (literally in the 80s, now 25 years ago). They should probably be added as featured composers, with the spiffy blue text and all, but I'll let someone with better editing practice do that if they'd like. The composer information is from the soundtrack entries we have here for the original two soundtracks.
http://vgmdb.net/album/1280

http://vgmdb.net/album/1279

If you follow that Ys II album for the credit, Salmon should be Nagata, but there is no guarantee that those credits are correct in the first place. I once tried to figure out where such factually widespread credits on Ys I and Ys came from, but could not trace it to a certain source (at least, for Ys II). It might have been originated from some ancient private talk, or just another Kinuyo Yamashita composing Vampire Killer fabrication.

[SimonJXZ]

Oops, I completely boofed that credit. You're right, it says in that entry that Hideya Nagata composed 5 songs from Ys II, with Palace of Salmon being one of them. I changed it in my original post. The error has been quoted twice for posterity anyway, so I know I can't get out of it

As for the legitimacy of the credits, I see now in 2011 where you asked about the credits for Ys II. Curious indeed. I'm not a huge fan of having that kind of stuff so rather officially in the notes section, since it makes gullible people like me believe there is some verifiability to it (although I do understand that some of these entries are older than VGMdb itself and have been copied over from its various predecessors). So I'd say it's safe to add Yuzo Koshiro as a featured artist even if we decide we don't have enough information to include the other two.

[niki]

Originally Posted by Cedille

If you follow that Ys II album for the credit, Salmon should be Nagata, but there is no guarantee that those credits are correct in the first place. I once tried to figure out where such factually widespread credits on Ys I and Ys came from, but could not trace it to a certain source (at least, for Ys II). It might have been originated from some ancient private talk, or just another Kinuyo Yamashita composing Vampire Killer fabrication.

Most of the widespread, track by track info, came from this site, really:

http://homepage2.nifty.com/tkdate/ys...reen/Shot.html

They actually back each of their claims as much as they can, too. See the actual game credits screenshots at the end of each game's pages. This is a very serious source.

I don't think actual composer names are mentioned in any of the old actual CDs though.

As for mentioning ports as "featured" or "composer" for the original composer, I personally don't have a simple answer to that ...

Does Beethoven stops being a composer when Karajan have his music played by an orchestra ?

Does he stop being the composer when Liszt arranges his work for the piano ?

I would personally still list him as composer on both works. I'm not sure that makes me right though.

Does Koshiro stops being the composer when his work is ported note by note from the PC88 to the FM7 ?

Does he stop being the composer when his work his arranged with synths and guitars by Yonemitsu for the PC Engine ?

I don't think anyone can have a definite answer on that ... ^^;


ps I love that Hellacia just discovered those classic tunes through a recent game. I mean, it kinda makes me feel old, but still, love it.

[Cedille]

Originally Posted by niki

They actually back each of their claims as much as they can, too. See the actual game credits screenshots at the end of each game's pages. This is a very serious source.

Seriously, how posting a 'general' staff roll credit at the end of the page could back every of track-by-track breakdown? They knew who scored the game, so they could figure out who did what as well?

Reading what I stated 2 years ago, and while I still think Ys Music File is very plausible, I just want to know how they confirmed it.

[SimonJXZ]

I'm not sure where the discussion of whether or not they "stop being a composer" comes from... they're going right into the composer field. They're just a featured composer because music they wrote is being featured by another artist's arrangements. Yuzo Koshiro didn't compose TENSION, DREAMING, OVER DRIVE, or anything else for Ys Origin. He composed it for Ys, the very first game in the series. Almost 20 years later, somebody did new versions of his songs for a completely new game. He had no part in these new versions. He simply composed the old one, and so a version of his old song is being featured.

It is a way of distinguishing composers who actually worked on a project from those who didn't. If we just have Yuzo Koshiro's name in the normal color along with everyone else's, it gives the illusion that Koshiro worked on this project. He didn't. His material was just featured in it.

[niki]

Originally Posted by Cedille

Seriously, how posting a 'general' staff roll credit at the end of the page could back every of track-by-track breakdown? They knew who scored the game, so they could figure out who did what as well?

Reading what I stated 2 years ago, and while I still think Ys Music File is very plausible, I just want to know how they confirmed it.

They do have screenshots for individual songs.

etc...

You're right though, no definite proofs for most songs. I personally trust them as well, especially since all composers involved usually have a very recognizable style, but aside from the few credited songs and the nonexistent CD infos, that's as good as it gets.

And that's how these Falcom discussions always end. ^^

Originally Posted by SimonJXZ

I'm not sure where the discussion of whether or not they "stop being a composer" comes from... they're going right into the composer field. They're just a featured composer because music they wrote is being featured by another artist's arrangements. Yuzo Koshiro didn't compose TENSION, DREAMING, OVER DRIVE, or anything else for Ys Origin. He composed it for Ys, the very first game in the series. Almost 20 years later, somebody did new versions of his songs for a completely new game. He had no part in these new versions. He simply composed the old one, and so a version of his old song is being featured.

It is a way of distinguishing composers who actually worked on a project from those who didn't. If we just have Yuzo Koshiro's name in the normal color along with everyone else's, it gives the illusion that Koshiro worked on this project. He didn't. His material was just featured in it.

That's gonna be a lot of blue credits for those involved though.

[Hellacia]

Originally Posted by niki

I love that Hellacia just discovered those classic tunes through a recent game. I mean, it kinda makes me feel old, but still, love it.

Haha, I'm probably a little older than you think but this thread was a neat read because I played Ys Origin pretty recently - like a few months ago - and so coming back to these songs and then even finding that there were previous originals was really fun.

Anyway, added Koshiro as a featured artist, since it's what we do with artists whose works were featured by another composer~

[SimonJXZ]

Hellacia, I'm glad you had some fun discovering the oldies. I really enjoy the PC-88 sound, and Koshiro does it as well as anybody. I believe he still uses it to produce retro sounds, too - if my memory's not mistaken, he used it to produce the "retro sound source" discs for the 7th Dragon soundtrack, which was released in 2009. I've sort of fallen out of touch with his more recent music, but as a classic VGM composer, he has a very high spot on my list. Thanks for adding him as a blue name here, by the way, I actually can't do that. It seems to be a privileged edit.

niki, I agree that if somebody decided to make the original composers featured for the Felghana soundtrack, it would look very strange considering... all the composers would be blue I also think it would look very appropriate because it would be informative when you see it; you would know that the entire soundtrack is an arrangement of past works, and that nobody came in to compose new music.

[niki]

aha yeah, but well, that's the case for most doujins after all. It's coherent, really. ^^

[Hellacia]

Actually, Ishikawa was the only featured composer, the other guy actually composed 7 new tracks.

Pretty interesting about Koshiro using that old PC-88 sound even in 2009. I have yet to listen to 7th Dragon, but that makes me want to check it out, just to get some Koshiro PC-88 goodness.

[niki]

He did it for sekaiju no meiq / etryan oddyssey too <3

You'll find a lot of his PC88/98 stuff on his collection albums too

[Foxhack]

Originally Posted by Hellacia

...really? Then you must have heard like one other Ys soundtrack besides Felghana ever. Yes, I was quite surprised because I wasn't familiar with anything other than Felghana back when I'd first played Origins.

*goes back to listening to Palace of Salmon*

I didn't mean to sound like I was making fun of you.

I played Ys I, know III like the back of my hand, and have listened to some of the soundtracks casually over the years. The song felt familiar enough that I went "I've heard this before" but could never place it.

[Matron]

Originally Posted by Cedille

Seriously, how posting a 'general' staff roll credit at the end of the page could back every of track-by-track breakdown? They knew who scored the game, so they could figure out who did what as well?

Reading what I stated 2 years ago, and while I still think Ys Music File is very plausible, I just want to know how they confirmed it.

I'm more interested at how the heck tk_nk got this. He also made some guesses (?) about Ys IV (He also guessed that Mieko Ishikawa composed 'In the Fires of Ignition' here). I still have no idea at who actually scored the Ys IV soundtrack -- I supose it was the same people at Falcom Sound Team jdk since Brandish 2 in 1993, but in almost every source I've checked it says Mieko Ishikawa didn't score for Ys IV, which I found VERY strange.

And since Yuzo Koshiro has been added as a Featured Composer, should we also add Mieko Ishikawa? She composed 'So Much For Today' after all.

(Can I request a nickname change, BTW? If so, how?)

[Hellacia]

Originally Posted by Foxhack

I didn't mean to sound like I was making fun of you.

I didn't get that from it, I just seemed like you were surprised that I hadn't heard a song from a Japanese-only game released in 1987. There's a lot of VGM out there, it's pretty conceivable I wouldn't have heard Palace of Salmon before I played Ys Origin. It's all good, I'm not personally offended, I just didn't get the "...really?".

Matron: There seemed to be some controversy over the more specific credits. Ishikawa's probably safe, since it's reported she composed most of Ys II, but since she had only one song credited to her here, I thought I would be risking that perhaps somebody else had actually composed that one, and her name would be added for nothing. Same with the other guy.

[niki]

There may be interviews we're unaware of, or more probably, the guys behind this websites got in contact with the composers themselves.

The fact they do add (?) when they're unsure always comforted me in the fact they were serious.

Did anyone ever try to contact them ?