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  #1  
Old Mar 24, 2009, 06:37 PM
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Secret Squirrel Secret Squirrel is offline
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So a recent edit changed the performers from:

Tony Harnell, Ted Poley, Jun Senoue, Johnny Gioeli, Kaz Silver, Everett Bradley, Paul Shortino

to:

Keiko Utoku, T.J. Davis, Crush 40, Nikki Gregoroff

This is a pretty big edit. Can anyone elaborate on it further?
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  #2  
Old May 21, 2009, 05:02 AM
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I fixed this up some, and added some credits, but it still needs some work. Also, I removed Takahiro Fukada from the composers, as I see no evidence that he ever did anything but write and translate lyrics.

Some info taken from Sonic Retro. There's a lot of work still needed for fixing up the credits on our sonic album pages.

I listened to some of this while working on the artist links. While the music from the early Sonic games is nice, the vocals from the later games (Sonic R, SA, SA2) are abysmal. My head still hurts from hearing that stuff.
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Old May 21, 2009, 05:32 AM
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This album gave me a headache when I tried to compile info on it the other day, so glad someone is trying to present something more definitive. Are you basing the credits on other related releases or some information in the album itself? The removed credits for M23 were interesting but I don't see where they came from.
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Old May 21, 2009, 05:50 AM
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I took the credits for the SA tracks from the breakdown on the Sonic Adventure album, where those songs appeared. I got some other credits from that Sonic Retro site. To verify the SA2 credits, someone would have to listen to the SA2 track, and compile a list of which songs are in that medley. I don't think I could stomach that task.

Mostly, I did this because I wanted to approve/reject some old edits in the queue.
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Old May 21, 2009, 05:53 AM
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Well, it apparently features Sonic's Theme, City Escape, Tail's Theme, Knuckles' Theme, Shadow's Theme, Rouge's Theme, Eggman's Theme, Main Theme. I'm not sure how they correspond to the SA2 OST track names, though, since I've only played the Mega Drive Sonic titles.
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Old Feb 18, 2010, 09:58 PM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Breakdown of Sonic 3 (and Knuckles):
NOTE: These are UNOFFICIAL [Bold = Confirmed, Italics = Implied]

Doin' it here because no other albums besides this include a single track from the OSTs of Sonic 3 or Sonic & Knuckles...yet.

Michael Jackson with assistance from Brad Buxer, Bobby Brooks, Darryl Ross, Geoff Grace, and Doug Grigsby III (See link below): Carnival Night Zone (1 and 2) {Jam}, Ice Cap Zone (1 and 2) {Who is it?}, Launch Base Zone (1 and 2) {Bad}, S3 Credits {Stranger in Moscow}, S3 Act 1 Boss {In the Closet/They Don't Care About Us}, S3 Knuckles Theme {In the Closet}, Competition Menu {You Rock My World} -->All featured voice samples/glass breaking (except Competition Menu); all were replaced in S&K Collection for PC.
Howard Drossin: S&K Title (Sonic and Knuckles Theme on Sega Tunes) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-RNxDPgu7g), S&K Extra Life (Relation to title), S&K Invincible (Relation to title), S&K Knuckles Theme (Knucklemania on Sega Tunes) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-RtHVJjYoY), S&K All Clear (Last part of S&K Credits) (Relation to title)
C. Cirocco Jones (Scirocco): Nothing that made it into the final version, as his work (cues for Hydrocity and Marble Garden) was made for MJ, not Sega. None of the four tracks were replaced in S&K Collection, therefore it is most likely that none of his work made it.


Brad Buxer = Keyboardist, orchestrations, and synthesizer programming and sound design for some of MJ's work (i.e. HIStory), and possibly the "Come on" in Sonic 3's Act 1 Boss.
Bobby Brooks (Robert Green Brooks) = Engineer/Programmer and synthesizer programming and sound design for some of MJ's music (i.e. HIStory) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Green_Brooks)
Darryl Ross = Synthesizer programming and sound design for some of MJ's music (i.e. HIStory)
Geoff Grace = Orchestrations in some of MJ's work (i.e. HIStory)
Doug Grigsby III = Synthesizer and drum programming and keyboards for some of MJ's work (i.e. HIStory/Ghosts); bass (i.e. HIStory)

HIStory reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory...Future,_Book_I
HIStory/Ghosts reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory/Ghosts

Other potential MJ sound-alikes:
Angel Island - Dangerous (Act 2)
Hydrocity - Give In to Me (Act 1), *Blood on the Dancefloor (Act 2)
*Marble Garden - Thriller
*Lava Reef Zone - Dirty Diana
*Azure Lake - Black or White
Desert Palace - Why You Wanna Trip On Me
Chrome Gadget - Scream

**Also, it was Roger Hector, the President at ''SEGA Technical Institute'' who said that Michael's original soundtrack never made it into the final game and the employee was Howard Drossin with the help of Jun Senoue and the SEGA Sound Team who replaced most of the music in Sonic 3.**

Sega Sound Team
Tokuhiko Uwabo (Bo): Not in Sonic 3D Blast ---> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,68088/ --> Veteran composer turned adviser by Sonic 3. Sound staff. NO MUSIC.

Sachio Ogawa: Not in Sonic 3D Blast --> http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesi...ehog-2/credits --> Sound Assistant in Sonic 2. Sound staff; Hydrocity Zone (Acts 1 and 2) -->Has a groove/vibe the others simply don't have; it uses a keyboard in Act 1 and a unique synthesizer in Act 2 [though it's extremely low in Act 1], Marble Garden (Acts 1 and 2)--> Act 1 has a xylophone; none of the other tracks have that.

Yoshiaki Kashima (Milpo): Not in Sonic 3D Blast ---> http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesi...ehog-2/credits ---> Sound Assistant in Sonic 2. Sound staff. NOT the same person as Yukifumi Makino (http://web.archive.org/web/200111232...lpo/works.html)

Masaru Setsumaru: Sound Programmer; Sound Effects (from Sonic 3D Blast); Zone "remixes" (as stated by Drossin in 2008 interview) ---> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,50542/ --> Either BGM or SE from the get go, but definitely did Sound Effects, as he appears A LOT in later Sonic game credits.

Tatsuyuki Maeda: In Sonic 3D Blast, but most likely for music instead of sounds; maybe sounds here based on position and due to it being his first game as well his constant appearance in later Sonic game credits [2nd to Setsumaru] --> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,34204/ --> Mainly a composer from the get go.

Tomonori Sawada: Had to have done some music, due to his lack of Sound Effect credits in later games. (Not in Sonic 3D Blast) ---> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,34175/ ---> More SE-related work at the time.

Masayuki Nagao: Have to have done music (Not in Sonic 3D Blast); Act 2 Boss and S3 Invincibility (from Sonic Drift 2) ---> Extends to S3 Title, S3 1-Up, and S3 All Clear -----> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,68089/ ----> Sound Assistant in Sonic 2. More music based at the time.

Jun Senoue: Act Clear, Game Over (according to someone named Dihdin [see link below]) ----> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,43211/ ----> Music from the get go.

Yukifumi Makino: Timer (aka Drowning), Chaos Emerald ----> Uncredited; credits based on official information from the Sonic Colors OST [former track] and ICEKnight's hack [latter track]. -----> *Uncredited in-game* ---> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,34263/ ---> Sound effect executive

*Sound Special Thanks*
Howard Drossin: The Virtual Sonic album was originally produced in 1993, so the Sonic & Knuckles main theme and the Knuckles themes from it were actually back then with the intent to be used in Sonic 3. However, they weren't used then (hence why Drossin is given a "Sound Special Thanks" credit) but were in S&K and S3&K (where his credit is upgraded to that of a "Music Composer")

Act 1: US Composers

S3 Tracks NOT done by MJ and his crew: Angel Island Zone (Acts 1 and 2), Hydrocity Zone (Acts 1 and 2), Marble Garden Zone (Acts 1 and 2) and all the other Sonic 3 tracks-->They were not replaced for S&K Collection like the others were. Simple as that.
NOTE: S&K Collection was released LOOOONG before Qjimbo's documentary, so SEGA basically pointed them out for us.

S&K Tracks NOT done by Howard Drossin: S&K Act 1 Boss (existed in Sonic 3), Staff Roll (beta version with S3 tracks existed before S&K-exclusive tracks were made)

Fun Fact: Masaru Setsumaru was the main sound programmer for Sonic 3 as well as a music composer.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Howard_Dr...August_2008%29
(for Howard Drossin reference)
http://www.sonic-cult.org/dispart.ph...bid=2&artid=16
(For connections of Sonic 3 composers to MJ)
Bonus: The original credits music for Sonic 3 (from the Howard Drossin interview page)
http://donnyku.nothingforfree.com/So...%20Credits.mp3 -->Note how the first part is the same as S&K's Credits but the last part is Sonic 3's All Clear fanfare, only uncut; the order is also different but DOES NOT include Lava Reef among the S&K Zones.

Also note how the S&K sound test includes the last part of the S&K credits (S&K All Clear?) as a replacement track for Sonic 3's All Clear and that the entirety of the S&K credits also exist as another track found MUCH later in the sound test.
-Sound Test 26--->Sonic 3 Credits (S3); [Blank] (S&K); Sonic 3 Credits (S3&K)
-Sound Test 32-->S3 All Clear (S3); Last part of S&K Credits (S&K All Clear) (S&K); Last part of S&K Credits (S&K All Clear) (S3&K)
-Sound Test DC--->[Blank] (S3); S&K Credits (S&K); S&K Credits (S3&K)

Therefore, the S&K/S3&K credits are a combination of the orignal lead-in, four of the nine zones originally planned for the zone medley (the others five that went unused all being Sonic 3 levels [Angel Island Act 1, Hydrocity Act 2, Carnival Night Act 2, Launch Base Act 1, and Ice Cap Act 1]), the addition of Mushroom Hill and Lava Reef were added in as a new introduction, the moving of Sky Sanctuary in accordance with the new finisher, and Howard Drossin's All Clear fanfare at the very end.

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Aug 6, 2011 at 08:43 PM.
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  #7  
Old Feb 19, 2010, 05:08 PM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Act 2: The Soundalikes
NOTE: These are UNOFFICIAL [Bold = Confirmed, Italics = Implied]

"I read in an interview that he only did 2 tracks [in Sonic 3] and those were only the Round Clear and Game Over themes, which were also used in Sonic 3D Blast. I believe you in a way [about Angel Island Zone], it does sound like his style, but he said himself he did 2 songs, [so] I'm confused." - DihDin
http://www.youtube.com/comment_servl...%3DsC-d-AM0gCM

"Message to everyone. This [Hydrocity] was not composed by either Michael Jackson nor Howard Drossin. It was allegedly composed by Scirocco and Brad Buxer, according to a couple sites i had checked out....Brad and Ciroco did Hydrocity and Marble Garden" - DihDin
http://www.youtube.com/comment_servl...ture%3Drelated

-S3 Title = S3 1-Up = S3 Invincibility = S3 All Clear (main theme) = Continue (Sounds like All Clear) = Balloon Park (Same instrument types as Continue)---> = S&K Credits (First part) (Used in the original version of the credits along with S3 All Clear) [See bonus link above]

-Sandopolis Zone (Acts 1 and 2) = The Doomsday Zone--->(Same-sounding bells, bass, and synthesizer used at similar tempo) = Death Egg Zone (Acts 1 and 2)--->(Same synthesizer used in Act 2; very low pitched in Act 1); Act 2 Boss = Final Boss = Chrome Gadget (Same instruments used; instrument for main melody the same for first two, especially during the intro for Final Boss); Special Stage = Desert Palace (Same clarinet sound; similar instrument in Desert Palace found in Final Boss); Angel Island Zone (1 and 2) (Same bass used in Desert Palace - NOT Jun Senoue after all) = Timer/Drowning (Same instruments) [Ambient/Action]

-Marble Garden Zone (Acts 1 and 2) ~ Mushroom Hill Zone (Acts 1 and 2)-->(Similar type of synthesizer used; not sure if its the same and/or the composer is the same); ~ Bonus Stage (Magnetic Orb) = Endless Mine = Chaos Emerald---> same background flute for these three; = Endless Mine---> (same instruments); S&K Act 1 Boss = Flying Battery Zone (Acts 1 and 2)--->(Same instruments and general melody, S&K Act 1 Boss' intro sounds like Endless Mine's); = Sky Sanctuary Zone = Azure Lake (same instruments); Bonus Stage (Magnetic Orb) = Bonus Stage (Gumball Machine) = Bonus Stage (Slot Machine)---> Very light flute in first two and same type of guitar heard/used in last two [Techno/Ambient]

-Lava Reef Zone Act 1 and 2 (Hidden Palace Zone)--->Different style and instruments from others in S&K (little booms in the background that were also used in S&K's Knuckles' Theme and the same drums and guitar between both acts)--> Howard Drossin*

*NOTE: Howard claimed in the interview that he only made "single versions" of each track, meaning that none of his tracks were mixed in such a way that they became, say, two different yet similar versions based on the original that were used for 2 acts of a zone. Lava Reef, however, is the exception because its second act is a completely new composition, with only the melody from the first half or so of the first act remaining in the second act. Therefore, it is quite possible that Drossin did Hidden Palace as well. Furthermore, Drossin is credited under "Sound Special Thanks" in Sonic 3, meaning that he did at least one of the original tracks in Sonic 3's Sound Test; the two acts of Lava Reef, therefore, make the most sense.

Data Select is reused in Sonic Jam, a game where the credits are "Compose & Arrange" and apply to only two people: Masaru Setsumaru and Kenichi Tokoi. Since Kenichi (to the best of my knowledge) joined after the release of Sonic 3, that means that Masaru Setsumaru composed the original Data Select in Sonic 3. Further proof is found in the Sonic World track, where the same instruments as Sonic 3's Data Select are reused and produce almost the same melody.

And so,... this happened
Spoiler:

Michael Jackson with Brad Buxer, Bobby Brooks, Darryl Ross, Geoff Grace, and Doug Grigsby III: Knuckles' Theme (S3), Act 1 Boss (S3), Carnival Night Zone (Acts 1+2), Ice Cap Zone (Acts 1+2), Launch Base Zone (Acts 1+2), Competition Menu, Credits (S3)
Scirocco: Cues for Hydrocity and Marble Garden [MOST LIKELY REPLACED]

Tokuhiko Uwabo (Sound Director/Adviser): Nothing

Sachio Ogawa (Sound Assistant [aka old SE management]): Hydrocity Zone (Acts 1+2)

Yoshiaki Kashima (Sound Assistant [aka old SE management]): Special Stage

Masaru Setsumaru (Sound Programmer [aka new SE]): All Clear (S3), Balloon Park, S&K Staff Roll [first part/lead-in], Title (S&K), Knuckles' Theme (S&K), 1-Up (S&K), Invincibility (S&K), All Clear (S&K)

Tatsuyuki Maeda (Sound Effects): New SE

Tomonori Sawada: Marble Garden Zone (Acts 1+2), Azure Lake, Mushroom Hill Zone (Acts 1+2), Flying Battery Zone (Acts 1+2), Sandopolis Zone (Acts 1+2), Sky Sanctuary Zone, Death Egg Zone (Acts 1+2), S&K Act 1 Boss

Masayuki Nagao: Title (S3), Data Select, Angel Island Zone (Acts 1+2), Act 2 Boss, Final Boss, Invincibility (S3), Chrome Gadget, Desert Palace, Lava Reef Zone Act 1, Lava Reef Zone Act 2/Hidden Palace Zone, The Doomsday Zone

Jun Senoue: Bonus Stage (Gumball Machine), Act Clear, 1-Up (S3), Endless Mine, Game Over, Continue, Bonus Stage (Slot Machine), Bonus Stage (Magnetic Orb)

Yukifumi Makino: Drowning, Chaos Emerald

Howard Drossin: Composition of all 5 S&K-exclusive themes stemming from "Sonic and Knuckles Theme" and "Knucklemania" [all arranged by Setsumaru]

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Aug 6, 2011 at 08:52 PM.
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  #8  
Old Dec 6, 2010, 09:34 PM
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Zhane Masaki Zhane Masaki is offline
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Are you 100% sure of this, Kyubihanyou?
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Old Dec 6, 2010, 09:55 PM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhane Masaki View Post
Are you 100% sure of this, Kyubihanyou?
First off:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
NOTE: These are UNOFFICIAL [Bold = Confirmed, Italics = Implied]
Second, I turned the "Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Michael Jackson: So it was true." thread into another breakdown thread [like for MMX and MM&B] thanks to the now-banned user 'xbox360' bumping it up. There I focused more on the artists and based their credit on how often and for which games they're credited for in future games whereas here I make assumptions based on the actual sound. In a way, these two were meant to be used together
http://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3511

If you want me to make a Sonic 3 breakdown thread, just reply, and it shall be done. But again, this is NOT to be taken seriously. This is PURELY speculation without a direct, official source.
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Old Dec 6, 2010, 10:16 PM
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It IS a sound theory, and I admit, even the guys over at Sonic Retro are stumped as to the total breakdown.
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 05:39 PM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhane Masaki View Post
It IS a sound theory, and I admit, even the guys over at Sonic Retro are stumped as to the total breakdown.
I'm assuming by that statement that you're a member of Sonic Retro, then? In any case, there is one thing there that I brought up under Tatsuyuki Maeda's page, and that is ICEKnight's hacking of Sonic 3D Blast (GEN)

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=6464

How credible are his findings? In terms of Sonic 3&K, it relates to variations of the main theme (via S&K's 1-Up, which is composed by Howard Drossin but arranged by Masaru Setsumaru if it is, in fact, correct). [I have no issues with S3 Act Clear and S3&K Game Over; both fall right in line with my findings]

-It is also true that I noticed before this discovery, that some parallel/replaced themes are similarly handled [That's why I put some of the variations of the main themes in italics]:

--> S&K's 1-Up jingle seems to have a different arrangement from Title, implying that Setsumaru arranged the former. The drums at the end and the "crispness" are indicators of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTRYkRZctLg - 1-Up (S&K)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaRplDj5QLs - Title (S&K)

--> Title and Invincibility/Power Up for S&K seem like different arrangements. Invincibility also sounds similar to All Clear (S&K) (see below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaRplDj5QLs - Title (S&K)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX-zs4d8X-E - Invincibility/Power Up (S&K)

--> The Title and Invincibility/Power Up themes for Sonic 3, however, are the same arrangement, and also the same as 1-Up, so I'd rather leave those with Nagao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYlkKEtN-X0 - Title (S3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq4kqd22kHI - Invincibility (S3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdoxpC6Xsa0 - 1-Up (S3)

--> All Clear (S&K) and the first part of the S&K credits are also similarly arranged. The fact that the latter existed in a beta version not only confirms that Setsumaru was more likely to have arranged these themes, but that All Clear (S3), which was originally at the end of that medley, was also arranged by Setsumaru, especially since it has its similarities to S&K's all clear via the drums and aforementioned "crispness"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQlaZ1l4kIs - All Clear & Credits (S&K)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtSod9iV2YQ - All Clear & Credits (S3)

**This all makes sense with Howard Drossin allegedly only doing one version of a song. I previously focused on the act themes when he mentioned that, but the statement could apply to the songs that rerprised the same theme he originally composed. Considering how far away Drossin is from the rest of the team, it would also make more sense for Setsumaru to finalize the variations of his theme to best fit the game/keep with the same feeling (i.e. for All Clear in both games). I mean, Drossin definitely composed all those variations [and, if it's true based on Sonic Drift 2, Nagao for S3], but that doesn't mean they were all handled by him.

-->There's also Chaos Emerald being credited to Yukifumi Makino [both composition & arrangement], meaning both versions (1+2 & 3&K) were done by him/her. Makino (Macky) is definitely not the same person as Milpo, as both are present in the Sonic 2 credits and milpo has an official worklist that differs from "Macky's." Anyway, since the Sonic Colors OST confirmed Makino having composed the original Drowning/Timer jingle, I guess it is true and Makino is simply left off the Sonic 3 credits due to contributing nothing "new."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VWhAidfaB8#t=5m02s

So...
Yukifumi Makino: Chaos Emerald, Timer
Masaru Setsumaru: All Clear (S3), Power Up (S&K), 1-Up (S&K), All Clear (S&K)
Masayuki Nagao: Title (S3), Power Up (S3), 1-Up (S3)
Howard Drossin: Title (S&K)

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Feb 20, 2011 at 12:46 PM.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 06:38 AM
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kyubihanyou: any speculations on who did Results (Vs. Mode), Emerald and All Emeralds?

Last edited by Nisto; Dec 17, 2010 at 08:35 AM.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 08:57 AM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
kyubihanyou: any speculations on who did Results (Vs. Mode), Emerald and All Emeralds?
-Race Results = Continue [I tend to use official titles (i.e. Power Up and 1-Up from Sonic Advance)], which is related to Balloon Park by how it sounds, which in turn is related to the first part of the S&K credits. I did, however, forget that Continue was also used in Sonic 3D Blast, so that's further proof that it's Setsumaru's and not Nagao's.
http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3D:...ive/Genesis%29 -> #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
-->S3 All Clear (main theme) = Continue (Sounds like All Clear) = Balloon Park (Same instrument types as Continue)---> = S&K Credits (First part)
*Well since I now have S3 All Clear and S&K Credits (First part) under Masaru Setsumaru, then Balloon Park and Continue/Race Results must also be his, then. They both have that "crispness" I mentioned last post, though it's harder to tell with these, and Balloon Park has that same starting drum part as both All Clear jingles.

-Chaos Emerald is related to Endless Mine, which by extension is related to Bonus Stage (Magnetic Orb) and S&K's Act 1 Boss [through the first few seconds of all three tracks] and Flying Battery Zone (Act 1+2) [through Act 1 Boss], so I've ultimately assigned it to Tomonori Sawada. (EDIT: No longer the case; I have now assigned Chaos Emerald to Yukifumi Makino.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
Bonus Stage (Magnetic Orb) = Endless Mine = Chaos Emerald---> same background flute for these three
*I don't know what's up with Yukifumi Makino being in Sonic 3D Blast for the same variation of Chaos Emerald, but if's he/she's not in either of the in-game credits, I'm not buying it. (EDIT: No longer the case; I now believe Makino does C.E. this because he/she originally composed Timer/Drowning)

-As for All Emeralds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8TvaLo8RO8 [at 0:13]), I consider it more of a sound effect than music, much like the original rippers did, which is why it's normally so far to find. In my case, it's because I don't remember it being near the beginning of the sound test with the rest of the music.
*Since it's a sound effect hardly heard in later Sonic games, I'd give it to Tatsuyuki Maeda, the second most significant SE-related name since Sonic 3.

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Dec 28, 2010 at 01:35 PM.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
-Race Results = Continue
If that's "Continue" for you, then, who composed this track and what is it actually called according to you? I thought that, with "Continue", in post #7, you referred to the track I linked to.

Last edited by Nisto; Dec 17, 2010 at 09:55 AM.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 10:30 AM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
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If that's "Continue" for you, then, who composed this track and what is it actually called according to you? I thought that, with "Continue", in post #7, you referred to the track I linked to.
Ohhhh, that Continue, and that I also consider a sound effect like "All Emeralds"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FbE4zmS6j8
Observe how at 0:50, the ring sound is still heard during "Continue," and the Special Stage music still plays; and at 1:54, when "1-Up" plays, the ring sound is not heard, and the Special Stage music is also stopped. This is an indicator to me of what is a sound effect and what isn't.

Since it's from Sonic 1 and unchanged, I never bothered with it here, but as for who did the sound effect, it can only be one of the following:
Sound Produce: Masato Nakamura
Sound Program: Hiroshi Kubota (Jimita), Yukifumi Makino (Macky)

It would be Yukifumi Makino because it's a sound effect (eliminates Masato) and Kubota was just the sound programmer for the Genesis/Mega Drive). In other words, all of the classic Sonic 1 Sound Effects (and now the Timer/Drowning and Chaos Emerald jingles as well) are Makino's.

Also, for Sonic 3 Special Stages, "Continue" is still played with other sound effects and the Special Stage music (at 1:09), as well as "All Emeralds" (used for "Perfect" in the Special Stages), at 1:14. They are just sound effects to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfF5EwuXmi4#t=1m09s

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Mar 22, 2011 at 06:56 AM.
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  #16  
Old Dec 17, 2010, 10:49 AM
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Since it's from Sonic 1 and unchanged, I never bothered with it here, but as for who did the sound effect, it's can only be one of the following:
Sound Produce: Masato Nakamura
Sound Program: Hiroshi Kubota (Jimita), Yukifumi Makino (Macky)
Ah, that was easy. I'll go with Masato Nakamura for tagging this track. I had completely forgot that track was in the first Sonic. Thank you
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 02:15 PM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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I just checked the album page and saw this:
M07-M10
----
Composer: Masato Nakamura & Izuho Takeuchi

Since when was Takeuchi a composer? She's merely a sound assistant along with Yukifumi Makino, Hiroshi Kubota, Milpo, Sachio Ogawa, Oyz, and Masayuki Nagao. Nakamura is by himself once again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VWhAidfaB8#t=4m48s

*Tomoyuki Shimada also replaces Hiroshi Kubota and Yukifumi Makino as Sound Programmer in Sonic 2, so wouldn't that make "Sound Assistant" almost the same thing as Sound Effects, at least in the case of Kubota and Makino? Furthermore, the credits that already exist prove that Nakamura didn't do any of the actual programming. Between all that and the in-game distinction I demonstrated above, that's why I think Nakamura only did music while the other two did sound effects as well as programming.
[In other words, Sound Program (S1) = Sound Programmer + Sound Assistants (S2)].

On that note, M23 is basically just a sample-sized version of Cuts Unleashed, with all 8 vocal themes played in a medley of sorts, and in the same order, no less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1fIQau3Tr4 - SA2 Vox Trax

.....

Well, regardless, I basically answered my own questions, so a confirmation of ICEKnight's findings is no longer necessary. The draft you see here and in the other thread (http://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3511) is officially my final draft. You may use it as you see fit, as long as you remember that it is by no means official; it's just research.

Thank you.
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  #18  
Old Feb 12, 2011, 01:09 PM
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So according to Sonic Retro (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.p...8&#entry557808), this was apparently in the code for this CD:

Originally from: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Hollywood/4764/gmcd/cd74.htm

作曲:中村正人(1~10)
作曲:澤田朋伯,香嶋良昭,Howard Drossin(11~15)
作曲:尾形雅史(16)
作曲:幡谷尚史(17)
作曲・作詞:Richard Jacques(18,19)
作曲:瀬上純,床井健一(21)
作曲・作詞:熊谷文恵(22)
作曲・作詞:瀬上純,床井健一,熊谷文恵(23)
作詞:ケーシー・ランキン(16,17)
作詞:瀬上純(21)

Of course tracks 11-15 (Credited to Tomonori Sawada, Yoshiaki Kashima [lol], and Howard Drossin) are the only ones worth noting.

11= Masayuki Nagao (Based on a certain track from Sonic Drift 2; This open ups the possibility that Nagao must have been dropped from the list upon his departure from Sega)
12= Howard Drossin (Eliminates Drossin)
13= ?? (Most likely Masayuki Nagao based on my findings)
14= Tomonori Sawada (Most likely Tomonori Sawada based on my findings) [Drossin deconfirmed via City in the Clouds]
15= Yoshiaki Kashima (EDIT (03/02): I was right; LOst of Sonic Retro did knew something I didn't (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaVvq7NZvKE)

"And I have talked directly to Senoue and Milpo back in the days." - LOst

That proves Special Stage is Milpo's/Yoshiaki Kashima's.

.......

Based on Track 23, they seem to list them in chronological order, not quantitative order (as Tokoi did 1 vocal track in SA2 to Fumie's 2), which might explain why Drossin is at the bottom. And since Sky Sanctuary was definitely made before S&K Title Music via S3's Sound Test and both Angel Island Zone and Sky Sanctuary Zone are both listed before Special Stage based on the context of the original S3 sound test track order (as opposed to Sky Sanctuary being listed after Special Stage), that should indicate that Sawada's track is before Kashima's.

Furthermore, Ogawa, Setsumaru, Maeda and Senoue were still employees of Sega at the time of the CD's release (the latter three still are today), so the fact that they are not included here should exclude them from ever being associated with the compositon of any of these tracks. Cut out MJ and everyone relating to him (including Scirocco) due to none of the "replaced" tracks being here and Makino (due to neither of the two common jingles being here in any form), and that makes only two people accounting for unrepresented factors: Nagao and Bo.

So, IMO, the credits should actually be like this:
Masayuki Nagao, Tomonori Sawada, Yoshiaki Kashima, Howard Drossin

The Sonic Drift 2 Invincibility : Sonic 3 Title Music connection is just too strong to not account for, especially since Nagao is credited for both games (unlike Sonic Drift and Sonic CD).

Regardless, Sawada had to have composed one of the remaining three based on this.

.......

Also, for the Sonic 3D Blast (GEN) tracks that were revealed by ICEKnight's hack, the same forum provided a sign of reassurance.

"Well, of course his findings are 100% true, all of the composer credits are actually in the ROM. :P

I don't know if they are actually used anywhere in the game (I was guessing maybe some kind of cheat code for the sound test or something), but I do know that someone decided to add the composer credits in the ROM during the last one of two weeks of development." - evilhamwizard, Sonic Retro

So here they are, for your tagging pleasure (including some for Sonic 3&K) (marked by an *), no questions necessary....

01 Green Grove Zone Act 1: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
02 Green Grove Zone Act 2: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
03 Rusty Ruin Zone Act 1: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
04 Rusty Ruin Zone Act 2: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
05 Volcano Valley Zone Act 2: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
06 Volcano Valley Zone Act 1: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
07 Spring Stadium Zone Act 1: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
08 Spring Stadium Zone Act 2: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
09 Diamond Dust Zone Act 1: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
0A Diamond Dust Zone Act 2: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
0B Gene Gadget Zone Act 1: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
0C Gene Gadget Zone Act 2: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
0D Panic Puppet Zone Act 2: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
0E The Final Fight: Composed by Masaru Setsumaru, Arranged by Masaru Setsumaru
0F Ending: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Masaru Setsumaru
10 Special Stage: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
11 Intro/Panic Puppet Zone Act 1: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
12 Boss 2: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Masaru Setsumaru
12[beta] Boss 2 [Unused]: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Masaru Setsumaru --> Reused in Sonic 4: Episode 1
13 Boss 1: Composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranged by Tatsuyuki Maeda
14 Intro: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
15 Credits: Composed by Seirou Okamoto, Arranged by Jun Senoue
16 Game Over: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue*
17 Congratulations (aka Continue): Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue*
18 Level Clear: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue*
19 1-UP: Composed by Howard Drossin, Arranged by Masaru Setsumaru*
1A Chaos Emerald: Composed by Yukifumi Makino, Arranged by Yukifumi Makino*
1B Invincibility: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
1C Menu: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue
1D[beta] Bonus Stage [Unused]: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Masaru Setsumaru -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrR2ETy-GB8 (bass and percussion) -> includes parts of this game's Special Stage and Bonus Stage (Slot Machine) from S&K
?? Sonic 3 Bonus Stage: Composed by Jun Senoue, Arranged by Jun Senoue*

Last edited by kyubihanyou; May 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM.
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  #19  
Old Mar 21, 2011, 12:50 PM
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So, kyubihanyou; didn't the Brad Buxer, Bobby Brooks etc. team ACTUALLY have any part in composing? They're listed as "music composers" for both Sonic 3 & Knuckles and just Sonic 3. I was thinking that maybe "Sega Sound Team" (which is where Jun Senoue and the other Japanese people are credited in the game credits) was just a performing group or something... But if those listed under "music composers" didn't actually compose, then what did they do?

Last edited by Nisto; Mar 21, 2011 at 12:53 PM.
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  #20  
Old Mar 21, 2011, 02:21 PM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
So, kyubihanyou; didn't the Brad Buxer, Bobby Brooks etc. team ACTUALLY have any part in composing? They're listed as "music composers" for both Sonic 3 & Knuckles and just Sonic 3. I was thinking that maybe "Sega Sound Team" (which is where Jun Senoue and the other Japanese people are credited in the game credits) was just a performing group or something... But if those listed under "music composers" didn't actually compose, then what did they do?
Your guess is as good as mine.

Based on how they are connected to MJ and the Buxer interview, I would have to say that only Buxer was close enough to have any sort of real connection with the project, and that's really only because he mentioned it himself. The rest of them could be there based on the songs referenced/created, such as simply programming them [see credits below] but I'm playing it safe by bundling them together.

Brad Buxer = Keyboardist, orchestrations, and synthesizer programming and sound design for some of MJ's work (i.e. HIStory), and possibly the "Come on" in Sonic 3's Act 1 Boss.
Bobby Brooks (Robert Green Brooks) = Engineer/Programmer and synthesizer programming and sound design for some of MJ's music (i.e. HIStory) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Green_Brooks)
Darryl Ross = Synthesizer programming and sound design for some of MJ's music (i.e. HIStory)
Geoff Grace = Orchestrations in some of MJ's work (i.e. HIStory)
Doug Grigsby III = Synthesizer and drum programming and keyboards for some of MJ's work (i.e. HIStory/Ghosts); bass (i.e. HIStory)

HIStory reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory...Future,_Book_I
HIStory/Ghosts reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory/Ghosts

If nothing else, we at least know which songs can be associated with that group thanks to Sonic & Knuckles Collection. Even if some of the ones that weren't replaced sound like his work (such as Azure Lake {Black or White}), the replacement aspect is what pins them to MJ et al., especially since the one in that group that's been 100% confirmed was a song in development. The inclusion of Competition Menu in the group further dissolves any doubts related to conversion difficulties.

In short, I'm not gonna mess with it anymore than I already have.

....

While I'm on the topic, I will willingly admit that I underestimated Scirocco's involvement in a way, as he definitely provided all his information.

Artist: Michael Jackson
Sonic Cues – (levels 2 & 3)
Company: MJJ / Pebbles Music / Sega Corporation
Project: Sonic The Hedgehog – Game theme music cues
Role: Programmer, Additional Production by Cirocco and Arranger-Composer (with Brad Buxer)

Based on the above (from http://www.musicpowers.com/id31.html), I would agree (with others) in saying that Level 2 = Hydrocity Zone, and Level 3 = Marble Garden Zone, as Angel Island has been used freely on this CD, with the "cues" just being components of those two tracks [either used or unused]. This also makes since with how close the music of those acts relate to certain MJ songs (Give in to Me (HC1), Blood on the Dancefloor (HC2), Thriller (MG1+2)).

This, however, would interfere with the notion that 'MJ-made tracks' were the ones that were replaced, so in retrospect I'm glad I separated Scirocco from MJ from the beginning, as this would have only made things more difficult given S&K Collection. In accordance with the above, he is a programmer, and he worked specifically with Brad Buxer. Since he primarily references his work towards MJ and not Buxer, I think this only refers to the earlier versions of these tracks that were ultimately replaced by the Sega Sound Team. If Hydrocity or Marble Garden were ever reused or rearranged by Sega, this notion can be confirmed.

Who knows? Scirocco might just be the key to understanding how the rest of the artists fall into place.

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Apr 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM.
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  #21  
Old Mar 21, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Yes! It all seems very likely to me. Really clarifies where all the weird credited names comes from.

So we know now that many tracks were composed by the MJ team, and the entire Sonic & Knuckles soundtrack was composed by Howard Drossin (as far as I know). Nice to have finally narrowed it down to this!

Also, where could I find that Brad Buxer interview?
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  #22  
Old Mar 21, 2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
Yes! It all seems very likely to me. Really clarifies where all the weird credited names comes from.
I like to think I accomplished something with this. (Hey, at least I figured out who Milpo is. Ironically enough, SegaRetro, who I have to thank for making that possible, is still against saying they're the same person despite all the evidence for it [Much like how they just lumped together Hataya and Nagao, no questions].)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
So we know now that many tracks were composed by the MJ team, and the entire Sonic & Knuckles soundtrack was composed by Howard Drossin (as far as I know). Nice to have finally narrowed it down to this!
I've made this album (and its thread) the designation for official (composition) credits, with significantly less mess.
http://vgmdb.net/album/22098
http://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5611

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
Also, where could I find that Brad Buxer interview?
Here's a translated version.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Brad_Buxe...cember_2009%29
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  #23  
Old Jan 31, 2012, 10:53 PM
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kyubi left VGMdb so I'm not expecting an answer from him, but maybe someone else can explain if there's really something behind this or if it's just more speculation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
作曲:澤田朋伯,香嶋良昭,Howard Drossin(11~15)



Of course tracks 11-15 (Credited to Tomonori Sawada, Yoshiaki Kashima [lol], and Howard Drossin) are the only ones worth noting.

11= Masayuki Nagao (Based on a certain track from Sonic Drift 2; This open ups the possibility that Nagao must have been dropped from the list upon his departure from Sega)
12= Howard Drossin (Eliminates Drossin)
13= ?? (Most likely Masayuki Nagao based on my findings)
14= Tomonori Sawada (Most likely Tomonori Sawada based on my findings) [Drossin deconfirmed via City in the Clouds]
15= Yoshiaki Kashima (EDIT (03/02): I was right; LOst of Sonic Retro did knew something I didn't (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaVvq7NZvKE)
Specifically the part about track 12. Sega Tunes • Virtual Sonic confirms that the S&K title theme is Drossin's, no problem. But why does that eliminate Drossin from having done tracks 11, 13, or 14? I don't see why it's impossible that he did more than one of the five.

The main reason I'm asking is that we're currently listing only Sawada and Kashima for possibilities for Angel Island on this disc over here, presumably because he's not listed as a possibility on this album, and I wanted to know if Drossin is really confirmed to have not done it.
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  #24  
Old May 31, 2012, 08:50 PM
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I think somebody sent him a few tracks of the main level themes, and he said none of them were his. From my research, the main S&K level themes are by Tatsuyuki Maeda, Tomonori Sawada, and Sachio Ogawa. Ironically, these three are also the hardest to contact for direct confirmation.

Howard seems to have only did the lil jingles unique to S&K, such as Title Screen, 1up, Invincibility, etc. All these were converted and arranged by Masaru Setsumaru. I once sent him (Setsu) the "Data Select" theme from Sonic 3, and he said he was not the composer, and didn't know who did, and then he sent me some Sonic Jam stuff that he did. Since he didn't send me any S3&K songs, I'm eliminating him as a composer. Although it was him and Masayuki Nagao who did all the Act 2 remixes.

I also contacted Bobby Brooks, Cirocco Jones, and Doug Grigsby. All three were reluctant to speak on it, and Cirocco told me that a lawsuit was going on or about to, regarding payments they never received. But we already know the songs they did, so this was just for info on the creative process, etc.

The most curious thing is the involvement of CUBE and OPUS. CUBE is said to have done 8 songs for Sonic on their website, if I remember right.. And Miyoko Takaoka has Sonic 3 listed on her Wiki page. hmmm...
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  #25  
Old Sep 18, 2015, 11:00 AM
drdevilfx drdevilfx is offline
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I asked Tomonori Sawada on Soundcloud what songs he composed for Sonic 3 & Knuckles; this is what he replied with:

Quote:
Hi Dr Devil

Thanks for the message.
Sorry to tell you, but both “Sky Sanctuary Zone” and “Underground Zone” are not written by me.

On Sonic2(8-bit), “Crystal Egg Zone” is the one I did.
And for Sonic3, “Title Screen” and a couple of short jingles are done by me.

I cannot tell you who did what any more, but I hope this answers your question.

I’m glad people still care abut our music from more than 20 years ago!

Best Regards.
Tomonori Sawada
I'm very pleased about this discovery, and hopefully we can unclear more information!

I believe these "short jingles" are the ones relating to the Title music.

Last edited by drdevilfx; Mar 29, 2016 at 11:33 AM.
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  #26  
Old Sep 18, 2015, 11:29 AM
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Nice, more confirmed facts is always nice. So this now eliminates him from doing other songs, making Ogawa and Maeda's roles more important, hmm.

Last edited by dissident93; Sep 18, 2015 at 11:32 AM.
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  #27  
Old Nov 23, 2015, 01:38 PM
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So, by that message of Tomonori Sawada, can we eliminate him from the possibility of composing Angel Island Zone? Because that would confirm Yoshiaki Kashima as the composer if I'm not mistaken.
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Old Nov 23, 2015, 05:51 PM
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Highly doubt it. Kashima stated in 2001 that he did the "special stage" theme. Both he and Sawada only mentioned they did one song when asked, so unless they are lying/forgetting about their other contributions, neither of them did Angel Island. It could be Senoue's, since he arranged it for Brawl, but it's not in his usual style and he said before that he only did "only 2 or 3 songs for Sonic 3." and "Actually, the songs for bonus stage are mine."

So again, unless they are lying or forgetting, Angel Island and Sky Sanctuary were done by another member of Sega. Maeda and Ogawa are two other Sega members that we know did music for the game, but we don't know which tracks in particular. It could also be composed by somebody who was outside of Sega, just like how Miyoko Takaoka did the Marble Garden themes, but wasn't listed in the credits directly. (just as "Sound Special Thanks" given to CUBE, the company she worked for at the time).

Last edited by dissident93; Nov 23, 2015 at 05:57 PM.
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  #29  
Old Nov 24, 2015, 01:04 AM
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I see. I though about that because according to this album both composers are credited for possible composers of that track (as well as Howard Drossin, but he didn't get to do anything in the final version of Sonic 3).

Well, I guess almost everything is still messed up with this soundtrack.
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 12:22 AM
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The liner notes for that just state SEGA as the composer, though.
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