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Old Feb 10, 2010, 05:52 PM
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quintin3265 quintin3265 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: State College, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liontamer View Post
We could really use a thread-split of all this drama, because it takes all the focus off of the original purpose of improving remixSite.

I'm pretty laid back, so all the stuff from quintin demonizing my actions & statements is pretty out there.

I disagreed with this:



1. We allow people to remove songs if they haven't agreed to our Content Policy, but we definitely discourage removals heavily. Some people end up disliking their older tracks, but we try to be a canon of sorts for our community's development and history. djp has older stuff of his he'd rather take down, but he doesn't. It's not about locking people's music in who hate the community or anything that dramatic. No one thinks we're stealing their songs. We created a Content Policy to have people explicitly agree that their ReMixes will permanently be hosted by us, that WE explicitly agree we can never make a profit off of their music, and that they opt out of being able to request taking them down. We do this because we don't want to waste our time & energy peer reviewing, hosting and promoting ReMixes and albums without the assurance that they're intended to actually stay on the site.

2. I'm not privy to drama you've had with the other sites, but your quote was a blanket accusation against everyone. What public uproar do you expect over a site operating for profit and who's doing that? You need to say who you mean plainly instead of being vague. The first part of your statement about song removal was obviously directed at OCR based on your earlier comments. With 3 or 4 other veiled accusations then stitched together, why be surprised that I would read into that being about OCR alongside the others? Since you're saying you don't mean OCR as profiteers, but you won't speak plainly and expect us all to read between the lines, you're playing a semantics game that I'm not interested in.

3. We're cool with promoting the work of other communities. When Game Informer interviewed djpretzel and they asked him for other sites to plug in the magazine, Dwelling of Duels immediately came to mind, because they're a great competition and community. When Paragon was attending a convention we presented at in New York, and I saw him in the crowd, I had him come up and we devoted time to promoting DoD. We do respect and help one another. Any drama that existed with virt, Mustin, The Shizz, whomever, is over with and has been over with for years. However, we are NOT a development forum for other communities and we don't expect other communities to host development threads for us either, thus why I locked your development thread and PMed you. OCR is not an outside project dev forum. We're not going to be vilified for common sense.

4. Since you're not established, if you wanted to come on our forums and plug remixSite, that's fine and you didn't need to ask us. But you're projecting a sense of entitlement that the other communities had to acknowledge you and help you develop remixSite. That didn't happen en masse, because you haven't established your site or yourself. Other communities didn't ask OCR to help it get up and running, they just did it organically. As far as contacting me, I have a lot of ways I can be reached, including here at VGMdb where I don't get inundated with messages. You should have just tried to contact me again through OCR or on Twitter or on VGMdb and not assume I blew you off out of arrogance. Another option was just making an OCR forum thread with your ideas, which would have cast the net wider for responses. I'm not saying I'm better than you, but we've all reached out to people who are busy or celebrites or professionals and ended up not hearing back. Please don't emo because you didn't hear even a no. The reality is that the onus was on you to make it happen. You did now, but it took a lot of drama to get you there. :-D

To answer your original question though from May '09, I appreciate your energy and desire to make things happen, but we are working on our own improvements to our Workshop forums for work-in-progress track development and for competitions. We've already mapped out what we'd like to do, so it would be too redundant to work with remixSite. We've really got our hands full with other projects, but perhaps try Remix:ThaSauce and see if there's any potential to collab there.
I'm glad to see that the thread has taken a turn towards the better. I'll reply to these issues below.

First, let me get the negative point out of the way, which is mostly in reply to Koli's post, not yours. If, in May 2009, I had somehow hacked zircon's account without anyone finding out and posted the exact same message (on the Shizz, where the majority of negative criticism originated), revealing the exact same site, using the exact same features and everything, the response would have been dramatically different. Everyone knows this, and I hope that some will acknowledge that. Regardless of the site's merits, people would have worked with zircon to improve it. Because I was not part of the clique that does exist (even though you don't actively promote it), the response was vitriolic criticism.

If you or anyone else has not read it, then please visit http://theshizz.org/forum/index.php?..._fromsearch__1 to see what was said within minutes of the first post. The response would not have been that negative had zircon or Paragon or you posted that message. This is the "clique" mentality.

Now, onto the more positive points. One of the main topics from the earlier posts, before this whole war erupted, was that a lot of redundant work is being done everywhere and such competition isn't useful. Your suggestion to collaborate with ThaSauce is a good one, but Rama didn't reply to my messages either, so I went ahead and reimplemented exactly what he had already done. Now, there are two sites, with two interfaces, and neither one will grow to its full potential. As to the blanket statement, I made a blanket statement because it was true: there were indeed no replies from any sites.

That brings me to the most pertinent issue to this discussion, and since you are participating where Rama has not: why is Overclocked ReMix developing a whole brand new work in progress section when one already exists? It's right here. All you have to do is slap new graphics on it and integrate it with the usernames already part of Overclocked's database. I tried to tell you that over and over and over again, but you didn't reply to listen. Since you had good intentions, not replying might not have been arrogant, but it was still incompetent. If you really want to take Overclocked to the next level, then as a leader you should reply to messages simply to find out what the possibilities are, even if you decide to decline.

But that is in the past, and I will leave the offer available. If you want a "non-approved" release or work-in-progress section available for Overclocked ReMix, then it can be done in one week by merging everything from here to there and changing graphics around. I can even share with you an idea to gain revenue and attract attention from professional game companies while still allowing everyone to download and upload music for free.

If the expected happens and things stay the course, the sites will likely compete for "non-judged" remixes. As with Rama, double the work will be performed. Divisions will grow. Each site will get fewer visitors. There are already people here who spend time here solely because they hate Overclocked ReMix. As a side effect, fewer people will visit the VGMdb. That's the shame of the remix community - everything is done twice or three times, when working together brings traffic to not just the sites involved, but also auxiliary sites that benefit from a strong community. Kaleb said what I've been trying to say since the beginning: if these sites are not for profit, then what does anyone have to gain by competing?
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