[BahamutWC]

Originally Posted by shawnphase

im not trying to pick a fight wes, but did you tell dude not to assume so much, then you make that same kind of assumption about how he budgets his time? thats bullshit buddy! you dont know anything about steve's main job or his secondary jobs, do you? i do. so do you even see your flawed logic here? you probably dont care, i donno why im gonna reply after i said im done. i guess its on the off chance that you'll give a second thought to the way youre acting and the way it comes off to me. you're kinda comin off like a holier than thou jerk..

Flawed logic? Gonna be honest here, you should go back to your first few posts in this thread for some of that - some of it can't even be made sense of.

So then, answer me this - if he maxed out his time, would he be complaining about some people not answering their emails, or would he be solving some of the fundamental design issues that plague the site? (which quite frankly shouldn't take much time to even realize) You have avoided answering this question to call out hypocrisy, even though the question was aimed at him. It's a perfectly legitimate point that has not been disproven at all.

I'll give the answer - the whining isn't productive, and if anything, it puts people off. He wants to talk about the fragmentation of the communities, and then he goes accusing people of not doing one small thing? As djp alluded to, you're not going to get any solutions by furthering accusing for no apparently purpose other than to satiate the feeling of being slighted. Putting personal feelings first over problem solving is what causes many of these problems to develop in the first place. If ego is what's stopping development, then that person has absolutely no place in complaining about others when he/she does not look into his/her own attitude(s).

Originally Posted by shawnphase

thats well and fine for you, and im sure it is good work to do. 12-14 hours of mentally straining work a day can be tough if its physical work, but i see you on irc talking every day so i doubt its as mentally straining as you're purporting.

putting what you do 'for the record' into an argument makes you look like you have something to say as if you wanted to be bragging about it, and for the sake of argument. so like, wwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyy.. its nocworthy as far as this discussion is concerned; when you accuse someone of something and then act like this and do the almost same exact thing you accuse them of, it kind of makes you look like you dont know what you're talking about as simply a person who might have personality traits that are considerate of others.

If you want to assail me for mentioning that, why don't you go complain about quintin doing the same? I merely provided a counterexample to his generalizations, which is certainly a valid thing to do - if someone tries to generalize based on his/her own experience, one can post any counterexample, with one's own experience or another's, and it serves as a perfect way to disprove such a claim from generalization.

I'll copy/paste the aforementioned post, which it is easy to check precedes my own.

Originally Posted by quintin3265

No.

I get lots of E-Mails every day. I work 9 hours a day, commute, go to the gym every night, make dinner, clean the house, do wash, shop, and do all the other stuff that's necessary to live, and I often feel dead by the time I'm done at night. But I still reply to all my E-Mails. It doesn't take long to reply to E-Mails, even if it's just to say that you will get back to them later. When you don't reply to an E-Mail, PM, or other method of communication, you are disrespecting the other person.

I think this says it all.

Originally Posted by shawnphase

and hey, i dont really know for sure. i dont know you. what i saw was you comin off looking real one dimensional and falsely justified with your replies here, as youve brought up things that really have no bearing or relevance to the topic or discussion or how it fits into the big picture simply to justify YOUR opinion.

Nope, everything I said was central to the point djp made - is he more interested in tossing out red herrings, or is he more interested in focusing on one vision without fail? Is he going to make a drastic judgment on one person or a series of people based on one human failing that isn't a crime against humanity or even a wrong? That question is for him to answer.

Originally Posted by shawnphase

conversely to what you're telling steve, you shouldnt consider someone's perspective to the big picture of what they see an 'accusation' when other people see that 'accusation' as something that actually happened and is based in fact.

Actually, I'm told he outright lied about something in this thread (in particular the vague attack on OCR about being concerned about profit) - if he is going to make a claim, he needs to back it up or shut that slander up. If it's not about OCR, then say what it's about. If he won't say, then he shouldn't make a bullshit statement like that, pure and simple.

There were missed emails sure - however, zircon gave his explanation why he did not respond, and it was a perfectly valid one. However, to make the leap that quintin did? Far more broken logic than anything I've said or you have been trying to complain about. But that is the irrelevant part - the relevant part is what is he more interested in, crying about it, making vague attacks that he doesn't appear willing to back up with concrete statements (excepting the email, and that was debunked by zircon from being a grand wrong), and in general acting as if he deserves everyone's time asap, or is he more interested in promoting music above all? The design decisions sure don't reflect the latter currently, and that is what I'll leave it at.

Originally Posted by shawnphase

this rhetoric that you think you can afford to him has been sullyed by making an example out of yourself. that i believe is a fair opinion. makes you look presumptuous and inconsiderate too. if you want to deny that you're being fairly insensitive, then you'll have to agree that you are baselessly pointing the finger. thats an honest accusation to be sure.

Nope, how am I pointing the finger without reason? I brought up a legitimate lesson that every person should learn, brought up only the relevant details to that lesson, and referred to why the lesson should be learned if quintin truly wants to improve the site for the long term. It is a basic lesson that virtually every successful businessman understands, and is 100% relevant here. Do you deny that quintin has a choice, to devote the time figuring out the problems he has in design, coming up with a good solution, and executing, or to throw up his hands and give up?

Anything else is noise compared to this question.

If you look deeper, you'll understand that we're giving real advice here that should he grasp and understand, could enable him to take his site further. Nobody else seems interested in giving that advice, and quite frankly, his attitude so far has been offputting from me even wanting to be willing to give this advice. However, if he's receptive, I don't want to miss a chance to give such an important life lesson, in the event he learns it because I care about people.

There is something important in hearing words you may not necessarily want to hear, but that are truthful. You don't improve for the most part without hearing that type of criticism - I am not one to baby someone only for that person to find out that he/she has been misled. I am going to point it out upfront and do my utmost to avoid the problem, and use it as a teaching point.

If what quintin wanted to hear is how to improve his site, that is exactly what djp and I gave & genuinely hope he tries to understand and learn from. If what he wanted to hear is affirmation that he made all of the right decisions, then that's not what we are about, because just judging by the end result being complained about, it clearly was not accomplished (having a vibrant community). I am not going to lie simply because he potentially doesn't want to hear the advice that he supposedly seeked out.