SSCX-10006: Tengai Makyou The Apocalypse IV Original Sound Track

Hellacia · #1 Apr 24, 2012, 11:52 AM

I've made some changes to the tracklist, both Japanese and English. 2-20 in Japanese was substantially different, it was only 死神 rather than 死神に襲われたアラモ, so I just renamed it to "The Death God". 2-48 and 2-49 were switched, and I made the change in the English tracklist too, as well as removing the (Symphonic Suite) subtitles since that isn't actually part of the name. As far as more English changes go, I changed a lot of noun of person titles to the normal possessive structure, person's noun (except for Theme of the Sun Crusaders, which sounds better like that). A couple points to bring up:

- Why was Raijin uppercased? Even other names not translated from the Japanese (Yumemi, for example) weren't uppercased. Also, his name is possibly Rizing, which serves as a pun - apparently this game is pretty humorous. Track 1-59 probably confirms this; I don't think that's bad romaji in this case (though I've never played the game). Should we change instances of Raijin to Rizing?

- Zako battle is actually straight-up romaji. There's no one named Zako in this game. Rather, a zako (雑喉, or just written ザコ in this case) is a small fry, or an inconsequential person. Basically, this is probably some kind of "normal battle" theme. It also falls into place with the battle theme naming scheme this soundtrack has, which lists the rank of the person you're fighting (Mid-Boss Battle, Twelve Apostles Battle...). We should change this too.

Phonograph · #2 Apr 24, 2012, 12:38 PM

for my defense, I used the tracklist I had at the time
chudah never told me it wasn't ok to use noun of person (as you say)

I'm unable to say when I translated it, maybe the log of gmr has the answer (circa 2001?)
for zako, I often hesitated about translating it or not (I think I've made like bahamut lagoon ost and leaving as zako)

Hellacia · #3 Apr 24, 2012, 12:55 PM

Oh, I place no fault on any individual for any errors seen in these ancient DigiCube tracklists and such. The errors in the Japanese tracklists often come from websites like Amazon, and then based off that error, the translator, inexperienced in his early days of translating, will make another error. I just figured that, since I now have the actual kanji in the booklet right in front of me, I can help improve this entry.

Also, made another change: I changed "Taho" to "Tahoe". Lake Tahoe is... well, Lake Tahoe, a place in the United States

The game takes place in (and basically pokes fun at) the US, with Portland and Hollywood being other areas.

Phonograph · #4 Apr 24, 2012, 01:05 PM

I must say about lake tahoe, I've always believed it was the spelling for it without checking whether it was right or not

Dag · #5 Apr 24, 2012, 03:15 PM

Some official names from the old site and the wiki

- 雷神 = Rizing
- 夕能 = Youno
- マントー = Manto
- アペティ = Appety (don't ask me...)
- 都来 = Torai
- 火門 = Kamon
- サネトモ = Sanetomo (character)

Zako I can't think of a decent English equivalent so maybe simply Normal Battle?
For 死神 how about The Reaper?

Hellacia · #6 Apr 24, 2012, 03:36 PM

Oh, neat. We should use those names. We can also go with "The Reaper" and "Normal Battle", I have no objections there. Actually, I'll change those in a bit, after I eat.

Mortavia · #7 Jul 31, 2012, 11:51 AM

Hi, I'm new and want to make some changes to the English tracklist based on game context and also on real-life stuff. For example OK牧場の決闘 is the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, which is regarded as the most famous gunfight in the history of the American Old West. Since this game takes place in the USA, there are many references to real American places, holidays, etc. However I don't know if just anyone can make changes to the site, so I'm wondering if it's okay that I do this.

If it would suit you I will make a list outlining why each song name should be what it is, so you know I'm not just making it up. I can also add screenshots, for example I have one of the O.K. Corral sign in the game, if you'd like that sort of thing. Well, let me know if I can change some things. Thank you!

Dag · #8 Jul 31, 2012, 12:54 PM

Anyone is welcome to make changes (there is a moderation feature just in case), but it's extra nice when people post basic reasonings, to help the staff understand the changes (ex. few can judge translations).

No need to post screenshots (unless you want to of course), if you mention that's how it's written in the game no reason to doubt you.

Mortavia · #9 Aug 1, 2012, 09:26 PM

Okay, so, I did an outline of everything, in case maybe people are interested about the game, and also just to have everything documented. But keep in mind there will be spoilers that span the entire game.

-------
Disc 1
-------

Spoiler:

-------
Disc 2
-------

Spoiler:

I've made these changes, of course I hope you say anything you don't agree with. Also I guess I'll say that I really like this soundtrack! At first it may sound like there's not much to the music, that it's maybe too simple or there's not enough "going on" in the songs, but if you give it a chance then there are some fun and some touching melodies in here, and the music will definitely grow on you.

Also, a comment about the arrangers: I think that Hironao Yamamoto, the sound programmer, co-arranged some songs in that he arranged them to be suitable for the Sega Saturn sound format. For example the piano songs sound different in the game than they do on the soundtrack, more like they're MIDIs, while other tracks basically sound exactly the same (though probably just better frequencies/quality). As for Takayuki Negishi, who arranged orchestra and vocal, he had to have done the last seven tracks on the soundtrack, as well as Dark Opera, which would be his vocal arrangement credit. Of course he also arranged Get! Glory!, which appears in the game when fighting in a giant robot against... Manto, I think. Anyway, that's just my theory about specific song arrangements.

Well, hopefully this post is informative!

Nisto · #10 Aug 1, 2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortavia

03 ザコバトル
Normal Battle
As discussed, ザコ, or 雑魚, is a low-ranking/useless person
"Normal Battle" is great for this

Phonograph and I went with "Trivial Battle" for Bahamut Lagoon (there's a track with that same title). Not saying "Normal Battle" is worse, but I personally tend to check for consistency of translations between all tracklists (or what I can find anyway) in the DB before I conclude it. Maybe that translation needs some more opinions?

Hellacia · #11 Aug 1, 2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortavia

31 百合若の船
Yuriwaka's Ship
百合若 is yuriwaka, a character's name, while 船 is ship, boat, etc
This is easy to mistake, but Yuriwaka is the Indian God whose ship was used in the battle of Eden 2000 years ago

Maaaaaaaaaan

I researched this game a little bit using a FAQ and this particular title really bugged me because I couldn't find any mention of a "Lily" anywhere. Of course it's as obvious as "the kanji is someone's name!"

Anyway, this is awesome, this must have taken a huge amount of work. Were you able to dig anything up through research, or is this all from your memory? I'm slightly interested in this game and its music... and I guess it's because I'm a shamelessly proud owner of the physical soundtrack. It's a rare one

Mortavia · #12 Aug 1, 2012, 10:16 PM

Nisto: I like to have consistency of translations also. "Trivial Battle" is also a great title, more descriptive as far as the original Japanese is concerned but possibly less mainstreamed (maybe people recognize "normal battle" themes). In the end I can't say which is sounds better, which is the better title... certainly we could use some more input!

Hellacia: Thanks, I'm glad you like the info. I played this game some years ago, so some things I remember and other things I look on Youtube for just to make sure. But there are no full walkthroughs on Youtube, and considering the length of the videos and the slow loading times it's hard to try and research every last thing. For example I think I remember hearing "The Dark Church" in a place other than Belladonna's church and maybe I didn't hear it there after all. Doesn't affect the translation really (unless you want to be picky about "the") but a part of me still wants to know.

Also congratulations on owning this! I own it as well, it's a favorite of mine, maybe someday I'll get one with an obi.

Dag · #13 Aug 2, 2012, 06:44 AM

Wow, great work.

I was thinking, for 2.04 isn't "Fort Alamo" how it usually goes in English? (or maybe it's just "a" fort in Alamo)

For Trivial Battle, personally I don't like it much, as it implies the battle may be simply/easy (say that about SMT games).
Zako are basically any basic/non boss enemies you get to beat again and again.
I think the most common term would be "random battle", but that has a funny ring to it doesn't it.

Mortavia · #14 Aug 2, 2012, 09:10 AM

The real place is actually just called "The Alamo" now, though it was originally Mission San Antonio de Valero. The word "fort" isn't part of its name like other forts such as Fort Lauderdale or Fort Knox, so to me it makes more sense to just say it is the Alamo fort, I guess for a similar reason I went with "Romero, the Curator". Maybe that makes sense?

Glad you liked it, thanks!

Hellacia · #15 Aug 2, 2012, 10:31 AM

I'd take "normal battle" over "trivial battle" as well, maybe I'm biased but it's how I feel

I agree with Dag's reasoning, even fighting a small fry in the grand scheme of things isn't necessarily going to be trivial.

Phonograph · #16 Aug 2, 2012, 11:14 AM

sorry but trivial is closer to zako than normal is (usually used as futsuu)
since it's not futsuu in the trackname, I don't think that should be used whatever you think

if trivial doesn't please you, I suggest you to google "synonym trivial"
maybe unimportant will make you happy or petty, however note that a definition of "small fry" leads to "unimportant thing (or person)" and a synonym of unimportant leads to trivial

Mortavia · #17 Aug 2, 2012, 01:01 PM

I think it's just the difference between trying to use exactly the words used in the Japanese vs. trying to discover a meaning. Like for example, does 最後の最後 literally mean "the very end"? It literally means "the end of the end". But, "the very end" is something English speakers can recognize and it makes sense for them, and 最後の最後 could also mean that even though it doesn't literally say it. In a game, the "trivial battles" with small fry or inconsequential people could just mean the "normal battles", even though that's not literally what it's saying.

To me sometimes getting a good Japanese translation is not necessarily going with exactly what is said, because their are some cultural differences and things like that. Of course I'm not saying that "trivial battle" is not a good translation, it's just as good in its own ways because again it's more descriptive as far as the original Japanese. But sometimes I'll lose some descriptiveness to make the title blend better with English-speaking audiences and I think that's okay.

Anyway I'm just trying to make some points, I have no input on which one we should choose and don't ultimately care what we end up with, as long as everyone is happy!

Jormungand · #18 Aug 2, 2012, 01:21 PM

"Normal Battle" makes much more sense in context. "Trivial" gives a very different feeling, almost like the battles are "in the way", and especially unimportant. But in the context of an RPG, the idea is to distinguish the regular, everyday random encounter from the event-driven boss battle.

"Normal Battle" gives the appropriate context in this case. It's like one's "normal job": in general it is something you expect, and it's just part of life despite your personal feelings about it.

"Trivial Battle" is more like, "ugh, I wasn't expecting this battle, it's really not worth my time."

Phonograph · #19 Aug 2, 2012, 02:17 PM

actually I need to be more precise about what I mean
as nisto said it was originally meant to be used with bahamut lagoon because in this game those battles are trivial for they can be avoided, not only but also totally ignored

however for tengai, I can't say if the same process is applicable since I never played the game unlike bahamut lagoon I finished several times and that trivial battle makes perfect sense for it

Mortavia · #20 Aug 2, 2012, 02:37 PM

In Tengai Makyou, you initiate battles by coming into contact with a sprite. Some battles can be avoided, while others can't so easily, but they are not initiated by amount of steps or such.

Hellacia · #21 Aug 2, 2012, 02:43 PM

Ehhhh... I still don't think that makes them "trivial". Then why not call all sidequest bosses trivial just because you can avoid them, even though they're bosses. If you decided to fight them, they wouldn't have the "trivial battle" theme, would they.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortavia

I think it's just the difference between trying to use exactly the words used in the Japanese vs. trying to discover a meaning

sometimes getting a good Japanese translation is not necessarily going with exactly what is said

I like this a lot.

Nisto · #22 Aug 2, 2012, 05:16 PM

Would "Minor Battle" be even worse? I'm not actually changing my mind about "Trivial Battle", but I feel everyone should be able to be satisfied here. Me personally, I think "Normal" is simply too vague compared to "Trivial".

Hellacia · #23 Aug 2, 2012, 05:50 PM

Actually, y'know what, I really like that. Captures the zako-ness of the Japanese title without being too... condescending?

It doesn't sound awkward either. If everyone else likes it I say go for it, I'm in for that one.

Mortavia · #24 Aug 2, 2012, 05:57 PM

I don't mind any change, but one thing I'm afraid of is that someone else will like some other synonym more, for example I like "minor" just as much as I like "common", but then if I'm going to like "common" I can also just like "normal". I think any of these words work, but the reason I go with normal is because it is the most mainstreamed word and fits in with RPG context nicely. Of course, as it's been debated, "normal" is maybe too vague compared to the Japanese meaning of "zako", so as long as everyone can agree on one synonym then we can just go with that one.

Which one everyone can agree on, that's the question~

Dag · #25 Aug 3, 2012, 06:45 AM

Whatever you call it, consider that enemies are ザコ or ボス. A ザコ isn't a "small fry" in the sense there is a "bigger fry" then boss.
Perhaps mob is how kids would call them these days.

Nisto · #26 Aug 3, 2012, 07:35 AM

I remember Phonograph and I discussed that Wikipedia article (the Japanese one specifically), but we both thought (and I think most of you do, too) that "Mob Battle" or anything with "mob" sounds pretty weird.

Mortavia · #27 Aug 3, 2012, 10:33 AM

Okay, so I've seen some cases where we have a "Front (display)" image for when the normal image of the front isn't really suitable for being the soundtrack's main cover, like it is a scan of the booklet front & back together for example (actually I did a search to make sure I didn't imagine it, we have a few, something like 100). I think this image with the tabs isn't suitable for the front image, you wouldn't see the front of the case like this with the tabs up because they go into the spines, looking at the case head-on you would only see the image. So I uploaded a scan I did of the case front where I removed the tabs and sized it down to 600x600, hope that's okay!

If anyone wants the full 600 DPI image I can upload it somewhere but I think anything more than 166 DPI or definitely 200 DPI is too much for scans here anyway, so I size it down.

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