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  #1  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 02:33 AM
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Default Zhane Masaki's "Collection"?

What exactly is the purpose of Zhane's listing of albums in his collection? It's apparent that he does not have such a huge collection, and everytime i click an album here, i see it being owned by one member, and it's always him. If it's for a study or listing, isn't that what VGMdb itself is for?

I have no big problem or really objection towards what he is doing, it just seems pointless and is a little annoying when you genuinely want to know if members have actually obtained certain cds.
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  #2  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 03:26 AM
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I can't even open his collection, Firefox 3 throws a 'Content Encoding Error'...
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  #3  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 04:16 AM
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He's probably trying to emulate a listing by game or category (which we're still developing).
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  #4  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 04:19 AM
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But why? As you say there, it's part of the site, why use the collection feature?

Seems kinda pointless
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  #5  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 04:35 AM
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I was under the impression that it is his MP3 collection, which would make more sense than a genuine CD collection (unless Zhane Masaki is Bill Gates' nephew or something).
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  #6  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 05:22 AM
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Knowing him a bit, i can tell his "vgmdb" collection is not exactly like his "digital" collection anyway, as he do not pocess "digitally" every album he add on the site.

I just think users should definitely dissociate digital collection and real pocessions.


Maybe collections should have 2 directories by default "digital" & real", and while browsing on the site, it should tell only who got a real copy of the album.. regarding the "real" dirrectory.
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  #7  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 06:06 AM
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Yeah i agree that the collections needs to have a more clear guideline as to what you should list.

However i think his particular list is soon going over 3000 (if not already) so it's obvious he's working on some sort of list on his own, but why use the public collectors feature for this personal research?
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  #8  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrkul View Post
Maybe collections should have 2 directories by default "digital" & real", and while browsing on the site, it should tell only who got a real copy of the album.. regarding the "real" dirrectory.
This is similar to what I suggested the last time this issue was brought up. While I don't think we should relgulate what users use the collection feature for, I really think we need to have a better separation between ones 'actual' collection and whatever else one wishes to use the collection feature for.

A specific directory which exists in each collection by default (and is named in such a way that its purpose is hard not to get) and from which all collection data is drawn from, seems like a good idea. So that only albums one actually owns (or have otherwise payed for, in the case of non-free digital releases) show up the "Album Stats" in album entries, and in other stats around the site.
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  #9  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 07:20 AM
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Coding up such a feature is a waste of time and resources, because even if such a feature was in place I could just as easily say X album is in that default folder. The problem with that is that really everything is in the user's power. There's no way to verify how a user got an album other than take a their word for it.

But yeah, his collection must be for some other use considering how albums not even released yet and even cancelled releases are included in it. Oh, and it crashes my browser when it attempts to load.
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  #10  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorbfish View Post
Coding up such a feature is a waste of time and resources, because even if such a feature was in place I could just as easily say X album is in that default folder. The problem with that is that really everything is in the user's power. There's no way to verify how a user got an album other than take a their word for it.
Well, yeah, obviously one could do that. Not sure why anyone would though.
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  #11  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 07:32 AM
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This is a serious and legit database and we do encourage buying albums though, so im not totally for listing downloaded albums. There are other ways to do that, like notepad and forums. I guess im kinda biased since i hunt down doujins and albums that i like those lists to represent real aquired cds.
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  #12  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 08:45 AM
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Don't make a fuzz about it. It is obivious that his collection isn't that big. I mean, think about it. Where should he store at last 2000+ CDs? My actual "perfect" collection will be at 150-200 CDs maximum.

But I agree with Akumu, VGMdb is a serious and legit db.
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  #13  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 04:45 PM
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I guess at the moment, I'm more concerned about why the page won't load for anyone anymore. I guess we've found out what the hard limit is for albums in a set of deeply nested folders. Still, it is possible that someone might have 3000 real albums, so it's probably worth finding a better way to display the collection.

I don't plan on policing anyone's collection to make sure that they own everything they claim. In fact, my collection contains a couple of folders that aren't albums I actually own. Also, I really don't want to enforce a folder structure on anyone...

One thing I've been considering though, is removing Zhane's collection from display as an owned album on the collection page. Effectively we'd be creating a kind of "do not display" list to help reduce everyone's frustration (because I'll admit that it frustrated me too.)
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  #14  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 05:13 PM
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It should be possible to put a new rule into effect about album collection listings without that much hassle. It's one area of this site that doesn't really follow the overall clean and legit structure of VGMdb.

It kinda defeats the point of having the collection feature to list albums you have simply downloaded. Those lists are more suited for VGM Central and such.
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  #15  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 05:29 PM
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I agree in general, but what would you have the rule say?

My list includes a folder called "favorites", some of which I don't own. Those would have to be removed.

Carl's main folder is titled "Albums I Own or Have Owned." Any album that he used to own but sold off at some point he probably only has as a digital copy, so such an album would also violate the rules if we impose them.

I think there are other legitimate uses that would also stretch the rules if we imposed them. Maybe Ramza would want to list all the albums he's reviewed on his site. If he doesn't own them, then he would be limited in how he can use the collection feature.

About the only thing I could do is ask people not to catalog large digital collections using our feature.
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  #16  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 05:42 PM
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Favorites kind of folders could be done by maybe being able to look at users collected ratings and reviews of cds, instead of using the collection?

Carl has gone to length of aquiring the albums that he has listed, so even if he sells them, he has still supported and obtained the cds he lists. I think this also can be somehow fixed by adding some more options to the collection system.

When it comes to the Ramza example, that to me is more of a personal thing that is more suited to be done in notepad or similar on his computer or website.

You could always add an option to make albums and folders in collection not be shown in marketplace and album listings if you check it, and just be shown when you go directly on the user. And add a disclaimer when adding albums that asks people to not list albums they do not have a copy of as owned
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  #17  
Old Jul 29, 2008, 09:57 PM
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Haha, yeah, Zhane's collection what the hell. I always wondered what was going on with that. He's either a VGM god or just a man who likes big lists. =3

As for me, well I haven't gotten around to creating a collection for myself yet, but I would most certainly just put the CD's I actually own in there (around 40-50, last time I checked). I think digitally downloaded albums should be disregarded, or at least put under their own folder or whatever. Of course, I'll probably create a "favourites" folder one day with albums I don't personally own, but that's to be expected, right?
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  #18  
Old Jul 30, 2008, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
One thing I've been considering though, is removing Zhane's collection from display as an owned album on the collection page. Effectively we'd be creating a kind of "do not display" list to help reduce everyone's frustration (because I'll admit that it frustrated me too.)
That sounds like a winning plan to me. Vote +1
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  #19  
Old Jul 30, 2008, 05:13 AM
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I think the most important thing is to find a way of weeding out 'personal reference' type collections, such as Zhane's. And as I agree we shouldn't disallow people from having such "collections", the best thing might be to ask that people make them private? And to make it so that entries placed in private folders do not show up in any stats, effectively making them, you know, private.

When it comes to things like 'Favorites' or 'Albums I've owned', I think these are examples of "collections" that could be of actual interest to others, so we should be more lenient there. I must say, it really helps when people place albums in folders with descriptive titles.
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  #20  
Old Jul 30, 2008, 05:47 AM
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Has anyone confirmed the rationale behind the huge list?
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  #21  
Old Jul 30, 2008, 04:34 PM
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I think he just likes organizing the albums by game series.

Anyway, I've created a "do not display" list, and added Zhane to it, so his collected albums won't show up on any album pages, and his total won't show up on the top collections page. Let me know if there are any other spots where I forgot to add the filter.
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  #22  
Old Jul 30, 2008, 04:59 PM
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what about adding a filter for people to choose so albums listed in favorites and the likes will not show on album listings

like if you have NIN-666-9 super mario cumstain as a favorite, and have the option to click do not display, it won't show up on the "Contained in ** collections"
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  #23  
Old Jul 30, 2008, 06:59 PM
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Well, all of this stuff is possible to do. The question is whether or not it adds enough to warrant the extra time spent in implementing it, and the increased complexity in the site's interface, both for adding to and managing your collection, and for just viewing albums.
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  #24  
Old Jul 31, 2008, 01:10 PM
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A code revision is in order, I guess. Even with 3000 entries it isn't supposed to break
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  #25  
Old Aug 1, 2008, 12:55 AM
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I don't think any further restrictions are necessary at the moment. Zhane is an extreme case and it has been taken care of.
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  #26  
Old Aug 1, 2008, 08:30 AM
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I saw your thread, and now My Collection page does not display. It actually serves to list both what I've got in MP3 and what I'm trying to acquire in MP3, but are unable to due to space constraints on my drives.

Effective immediately, I'm going to remove all 3185 albums from my collection, and not add anything else. If anything, I'm going to focus on finding info to add to the database.

I was only trying to keep track of my own MP3s, and help to further organize the database by categorizing things by game or software company. Since I see that will damage the site, I won't maintain a My Collection anymore.

Last edited by Zhane Masaki; Aug 1, 2008 at 08:40 AM.
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  #27  
Old Aug 1, 2008, 08:44 AM
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Thanks for the response. It looks like we'll have to do some further optimization on the collection code to make it fast enough to display your collection so that you can delete it. Alternatively, we could run an SQL Query to delete them, but it would be kind of nice to have your list still there so that we can use it to try to improve the speed of the code.
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  #28  
Old Aug 1, 2008, 08:47 AM
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I understand. To be honest, it also acts as a quick-reference for me, since i know what I'm targeting within it, and can adjust my MP3 folders to compensate. I must apologize for it getting out of hand.
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  #29  
Old Aug 1, 2008, 09:55 AM
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We'll just treat it as "stress testing"
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  #30  
Old Aug 2, 2008, 09:50 AM
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I've updated the collection display code. Zhane's list should be viewable now.
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