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  #1  
Old Apr 19, 2010, 05:55 PM
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Default A Warning to the Behind-the-Scenes File Traders

I've been getting an increasing number of complaints about the activities of some of you who are trading files using VGMdb's private message system, so it's time to address this before it becomes more pervasive. In particular, I'd like the lossless traders to take notice, because I've received the most complaints about you, and there is evidence that it's a coordinated effort.

1.) Please don't send unsolicited messages to members asking them for lossless rips of their albums.

It's apparent that some of you are "spamming" everyone who owns an album, begging them to share a lossless rip. This must stop now. VGMdb's collection feature is for everyone to use, and I don't want anybody to feel like they have to start hiding their collections to keep from being harassed.

2.) Please don't take advantage of the "Show Collections" page to advertise your file-trading.

This is an example of the Show Collections page. For each user who has the album in their collection, the user name and the title of the immediate containing folder is displayed. I have caught a couple of people clearly using this to solicit trades, with folder titles such as "Lossless (with cue) for Trade."
  • If you have digital albums in your collection, please set them to private, or use folder titles that aren't such a glaring advertisement for file trading.

While I've always supported the use of the Collection feature for purposes beyond simply cataloging albums you physically own, we must remember that our collections are only two clicks away from the album pages. We don't want a VGM artist stumbling onto a list of obvious filesharers.

In addition to any of this, depending on the response and discussion that follow, there may be other actions taken, such as filtering out certain keywords (Mp3, Lossless, cue, etc.) on the "Show Collections" page.
  #2  
Old Apr 19, 2010, 06:54 PM
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I remember sending you a PM about a user asking me for a lossless rip way back in April of '08, so I'm glad this is finally a public issue. Quite a few other users and myself have been getting these kinds of "offers" for at least two years now. I definitely agree with your stance, piracy and file trading should stay far far away from VGMdb. I respect this site too much for it to turn into a haven for file sharing. Besides, there are plenty of other places to do that sort of thing where you'll get much better results.

As for how users are using their collections.. personally I think in a future update you guys should just split up the Collection feature into two separate entities. One of them can be used for someone's collection of physically owned CDs ONLY (you know, like a real CD collection) and the other can just be the "whatever" version where a user can do what they want with it, as long as piracy isn't a part of it.

By the way, I have to mention that I love how dancey is taking matters into his own hands (look at the title of his Own list). But then again I think he's awesome regardless of that.
  #3  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
In addition to any of this, depending on the response and discussion that follow, there may be other actions taken, such as filtering out certain keywords (Mp3, Lossless, cue, etc.) on the "Show Collections" page.
I'd actually welcome such an intervention. Though what about the people who list their digitally purchased albums under "MP3".
  #4  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 02:43 AM
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Why the need of clearly showing "mp3" ? (and "lossless" too)
I don't see the need for that, until someone is interested in file trading..

- If anyone bought/own an album: that person know the format it is.
- vgmdb is not about file sharing, so it should not be important for visitors of that person's collection to see the file format of his/her digital albums.


Anyone could use a more generic name like "Digital Purchases".

Last edited by Myrkul; Apr 20, 2010 at 02:49 AM.
  #5  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 08:59 AM
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I have a suggestion, here...

How about adding a feature were you can allow only some users at VGMdb to show your own (private) collection?

Last edited by Nisto; Apr 20, 2010 at 09:16 AM.
  #6  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
adding a feature were you can allow only some users at VGMdb to show your own collection?
That's a good way to deter people from joining the community.
  #7  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidBeast View Post
That's a good way to deter people from joining the community.
Why? How would they now what I own?
Besides, you could probably also add a checkbox that allows guests to either view your private collection or not.
  #8  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
Why? How would they now what I own?
Huh? "allow only some users at VGMdb to show your own collection" is implying that the community (or the admins) put restrictions on all users who can only show their collections under special conditions like for exemple posting three times. Or what did you mean?
  #9  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidBeast View Post
Huh? "allow only some users at VGMdb to show your own collection" is implying that the community (or the admins) put restrictions on all users who can only show their collections under special conditions like for exemple posting three times. Or what did you mean?
What I mean, is that they (the site developers) should implement a little box where you can put in a list of usernames on VGMdb that are allowed to show your private (not private as in "his/her own private collection", but folders/albums that you have chosen to be private, so that (originally), only you, can show your own collection (by filling in a checkbox)). Then on the side of that, they could implement a checkbox where you can chose to, for some reason, show your private (again, as in "checkbox-private") collection to guests.

Last edited by Nisto; Apr 20, 2010 at 09:43 AM.
  #10  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
What I mean, is that they (the site developers) should implement a little box where you can put in a list of usernames on VGMdb that are allowed to show your private (not private as in "his/her own private collection", but folders/albums that you have chosen to be private, so that (originally), only you, can show your own collection (by filling in a checkbox)). Then on the side of that, they could implement a checkbox where you can chose to, for some reason, show your private (again, as in "checkbox-private") collection to guests.
Wow, again there's no point doing this unless there's something "weird" behind it.
You already can hide anything you want from your collection, and make the rest public.
Or it's competely public..
  #11  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrkul View Post
Wow, again there's no point doing this unless there's something "weird" behind it.
You already can hide anything you want from your collection, and make the rest public.
Or it's competely public..
There is... trading would still be able to be done with other people who are willing to trade stuff on VGMdb. No one would ever know which ones are trading what, or even that it happens around here (unless someone is spying on us users and our PMs LOL). I would probably also be able to finally get back in the "show collections" page, when setting the Lossy and Lossless folders to private.

Last edited by Nisto; Apr 20, 2010 at 10:21 AM.
  #12  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
There is... trading would still be able to be done with other people who are willing to trade stuff on VGMdb.
The goal isn't to encourage "secret" trading, but to discourage all trading. VGMdb isn't a VGM trading site. There are other places where people can go to trade VGM.
  #13  
Old Apr 20, 2010, 03:44 PM
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Yeah, I don't think that solves any of the underlying problems.
  #14  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 10:58 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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Why not apply something like this "funny" three strikes law (am I inspired by the French?! *g*)

You get two warnings and if you still get caught the third time then it's KICKBAN TIME!!

I'm sure that the admins can read PMs of every user, so if the mods/admins receive a complaint they can probably easily check if the complaint is justified.
So if it's justified you receive either your warning or your "farewell" message...

Apart from that: For me filesharing and VGM (and also a lot of other music) are inherently connected. Why is that? Well, I wouldn't own 90% of my albums if there didn't exist any filesharing on the net. I'm not someone who buys the pig in a poke...

Uhm, but even then I strongly ack AcidBeast - VGMdb isn't the right place to do such a thing.
  #15  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 11:19 AM
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Here's a handy T-Shirt style slogan:

Share Elsewhere ^ VGMdb Responsibly
  #16  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 11:33 AM
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You COULD introduce a non-namable folder system. Instead users could show to split their folders according to publisher type, artist, label or similar. At least it would remove the people naming their folders dumb things BUT it's probably not a good idea anyway because I like having stuff like "incoming" and numbered folders.


...though I just realized you could just add an "incoming"-type folder and a way to order them. Ah well
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  #17  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Soundscape View Post
You COULD introduce a non-namable folder system. Instead users could show to split their folders according to publisher type, artist, label or similar. At least it would remove the people naming their folders dumb things BUT it's probably not a good idea anyway because I like having stuff like "incoming" and numbered folders.


...though I just realized you could just add an "incoming"-type folder and a way to order them. Ah well
I think this could be a good idea actually. It could also be used to help keep the 'largest collections' (and other possible future top lists) in check by only counting certain folders.
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  #18  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanne View Post
I think this could be a good idea actually. It could also be used to help keep the 'largest collections' (and other possible future top lists) in check by only counting certain folders.
AND it would give a pretty easy way to look at other people's collection by letting everyone save their own "folder preference" for viewing
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  #19  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 01:00 PM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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I don't like this idea -> look at my collection... (most albums are contained in a named folder).

I like to keep things organized, but I want to be the one who decides what organized means.
  #20  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 01:06 PM
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I think it's too late to enforce a structure on the collections. People have already built their own folder structures that they are happy with.

The idea I've been pondering is to create an extra parameter for every folder called "Show Collection", and give staff the ability to disable display on the show collections page for specific folders on a user-by-user basis.
  #21  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 05:15 PM
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I remember that I've recieved some "sharing requests" in the past, but no serious floods of begging at all, so nevermind.

Regarding the collection issues... I experience that many people out there value warez albums as much as originals and probably don't even own a single hard album, which they've bought for real money. I think that is a horrible trend and doesn't support the creators at all. It's actually a slap in their face. I also think that it's respectless and rude to catalog warez albums in any kind of collection system such as VGMdb's. Overall, a very very sad development.
  #22  
Old Apr 21, 2010, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidAcid View Post
I don't like this idea -> look at my collection... (most albums are contained in a named folder).

I like to keep things organized, but I want to be the one who decides what organized means.
Maybe I was unclear... I mean there would be many different options for folder structures. The only thing is that you shouldn't be able to name them. Maybe it's a bad idea, I dunno, but it would at least solve the problem of people listing stuff under "FLAC" or similar.
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  #23  
Old Apr 25, 2010, 04:02 AM
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Been away for a bit, but I'm glad to see an official statement finally made on this issue. I've bounced back-and-forth between privatizing my collection because of this very issue.

While on the trading subject I'd like to again make the request that refbacks/trackback urls be hidden, or at the very least not viewable by non-staff. Every once and awhile I'll find an album page which refers back to a sharing forum where someone could easily download said album and many more.
  #24  
Old Apr 25, 2010, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorbfish View Post
While on the trading subject I'd like to again make the request that refbacks/trackback urls be hidden, or at the very least not viewable by non-staff. Every once and awhile I'll find an album page which refers back to a sharing forum where someone could easily download said album and many more.
You should report these. All staff can remove linkbacks. Also, it will help to know about these sites so that we can filter them before (or during) manual approval of new linkbacks.

I'm thinking about moving this warning to the front page for a little while, since I don't know that the message has gotten to everyone who needs to see it.
  #25  
Old Apr 25, 2010, 04:55 AM
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Besides linkbacks, some albums have translations and scans credited to a sharing website with the URL. Should we also take care of it and do something?
  #26  
Old Apr 25, 2010, 05:11 AM
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Yeah, we should remove the links, and just keep the credit name.
  #27  
Old May 18, 2010, 04:04 AM
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Clearly, this is still a problem.

[13:03:03] <Razakin> nisto: a guy pm'd me in vgmdb and wanted me to provide a lossless rip of rockman zero idea
  #28  
Old May 18, 2010, 04:47 AM
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We've had some success in that I've spoken to some of the people who were doing this before, and they've mended their ways. Clearly, it's still a problem with newer users, and I'll have to step things up a bit.

To everyone, please report anyone who does this by forwarding the message to me.
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