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  #31  
Old May 29, 2012, 04:43 AM
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layzee layzee is offline
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A few people in this thread have suggested that there be two separate threads for each album: one for vgmdb-related fact-checking/submission discussions and one for subjective opinions about the music itself.

At this point in time, I don't think that's really necessary because threads rarely reach 100 replies (or 50) anyway so all it's going to do is make all the posts and discussions fragmented. That kind of idea can work for some places like GameFAQs where just about every single game in existence has its own forum but it works only because the traffic (active forum posters) is large enough to support it.

But for something like video game music which is a niche interest as well as something that not only is harder to discuss about but also not much to talk about ("this is good music", "no it isn't", "well that's, like, your opinion man") make that an inefficient idea.

If you have an opinion about an album and want to share it, then take the first step and post it in the album's thread. If your opinion is more about the artist himself/herself, then post it in the artist's thread.
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  #32  
Old May 29, 2012, 03:05 PM
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The point isn't to avoid post build-up, but to avoid having to look through the whole thread just to find technical posts from others trying to clean up and edit album info and artist info. Keeping things separate and clean would be the best way to go—at this point, it's a matter of finding the best way to separate technical discussions from casual discussion(s) of an album/artist.
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  #33  
Old May 29, 2012, 04:38 PM
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And I like to ask that, given the nature of some albums (particularly the concept ones), wouldn't it be a good idea to add an space where translations for their lyrics or the stories they represent can be posted?

I decided to ask this because I don't think it'd be a good idea to just post links to other places where the translations are present, as that could be counted as a kind of advertising, and the fact that given the notes section is mostly for credits breakdown and basic information about the albums, it'd be too lengthy for it to handle comfortably...
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  #34  
Old May 29, 2012, 07:33 PM
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I'd welcome them since it's the quality we can rarely see, but hosting lyrics or drama scripts is actually pretty dangerous. I'd suggest at least avoiding raw (Japanese) texts.
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  #35  
Old May 30, 2012, 03:44 AM
Fearin Fearin is offline
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I would be in favor of our note area in a sense expanding, most likely put off until after the track separate details. So even after all that is added, the notes can also be attached to single tracks if the note is specific to them. Then a larger area for notes about the album as a whole.

As Cedille stated though, it is risky to post lyrics places, lyrics do fall under copyright and posting of them without permission can be called infringement.

Some sites do get allowed by the major producing companies, or have a decent take down policy, but I doubt Secret wants a flooded inbox with threats and take down notices.

So it would be cool to have them, but that is more something that would need to either be given permission, have a set up to automate the information for take down or some other control system.
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  #36  
Old May 30, 2012, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearin View Post
...

As Cedille stated though, it is risky to post lyrics places, lyrics do fall under copyright and posting of them without permission can be called infringement.

...
why would it be copyright infringement?
posting lyrics, roma or translation isn't as if you say it's your stuff since normally it's credited
sorry, but I don't agree with that presumption

it'd be like saying posting jap/roma/english tracklists also are copyright infringement since they also are written in the booklet/backcover like lyrics

(note: in case if lyrics will be added, I don't allow my romanizations from chudah's corner to be posted here)
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  #37  
Old May 30, 2012, 05:43 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
why would it be copyright infringement?
Not sure how things is different outside of Japan, but it's regulated in a law, and as a matter of facts, many people have been asked by JASRAC or such to pay money or remove lyrics altogether from their own sites on the ground of those provisions. Translated stuff would be still under the copyright of the original holders, but I expect it's less risky.
Quote:
(Definitions)
Article 2.
(1) In this Law, the following terms shall have the meaning hereby assigned to them respectively:
(i) "work" means a production in which thoughts or sentiments are expressed in a creative way and which falls within the literary, scientific, artistic or musical domain;
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  #38  
Old May 30, 2012, 05:49 AM
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so posting japanese tracklists and other readings would be illegal?
vgmdb never got notices about it? (I think that topic has been discussed)
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  #39  
Old May 30, 2012, 06:07 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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It technically could be, since tracklists also can be a place to express thoughts or sentiments, if we closely interpret the law. However, I'd swear tracklist won't bring any legal trouble, because there is no precedent case I know. On the other hand, there are plenty of the cases for lyrics, and that's where my concern arises.
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  #40  
Old May 30, 2012, 06:18 AM
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As Cedille says, there are no case precedents on track lists.

The US has had a bunch of law suits over lyrical use, since 3 parts of the song are copyrighted, the music, the lyrics and the audio production.

Scans (album art), lyrics, these are both very questionable and I would probably lean to the law being against vgmdb on them.

the direct information like artist names, or whom did what, wrote what, etc. I don't think that can be copyrighted.

Track lists may or may not be. I am not sure.
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  #41  
Old May 30, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Usually tracklists are given to the vendors to display in their sites and count a bit as advertisement, so it's fair game I'd say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquagon View Post
I decided to ask this because I don't think it'd be a good idea to just post links to other places where the translations are present, as that could be counted as a kind of advertising
I don't think any external links would be taken as advertisement, as long these are genuinely useful for the community, or marked as reference.
Alternatively one could post summaries, rather than full transcriptions to avoid JASRAC's wrath, in the album notes/threads.
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  #42  
Old May 30, 2012, 06:54 PM
aquagon aquagon is offline
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Then, I'd like to give that a try by posting a translation for the story notes of Shimotsuki's Koboreru Suna no ARIA. Don't worry, as I'll just post the translation without any transcriptions of the original Japanese text.
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  #43  
Old May 30, 2012, 09:19 PM
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TerraEpon TerraEpon is offline
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I believe track lists would count under "list of facts" as it were, which is not copyrightable.
But I coul dbe wrong.
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  #44  
Old May 31, 2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquagon View Post
Then, I'd like to give that a try by posting a translation for the story notes of Shimotsuki's Koboreru Suna no ARIA. Don't worry, as I'll just post the translation without any transcriptions of the original Japanese text.
Looks great. I'd suggest you to enclose the main text in [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] tags to make it retractable when the text size gets a bit long, since threads can get packed.
Spoiler:
It's a secret to everybody
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  #45  
Old May 31, 2012, 01:10 PM
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@aquagon: Great work! Are you planning on adding these also for the other Tindharia albums?
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  #46  
Old May 31, 2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
Looks great. I'd suggest you to enclose the main text in [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] tags to make it retractable when the text size gets a bit long, since threads can get packed.

Spoiler:
It's a secret to everybody
Thanks for the comments and the suggestion. I've already gone and modified the post to put the entire translation between spoiler tags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidAcid View Post
@aquagon: Great work! Are you planning on adding these also for the other Tindharia albums?
Thanks! And yes, at some point I'll do it. I have the two manga tomes for Tindharia no Tane, and I know pretty well what happens in the Drama CD, so updating the story summary I wrote in other forum to post it here wouldn't be any problem.

But for Griotte, I'd rather wait until the manga serialization reaches its end, as the album only covers the most significant story events, but leaves out a lot of details. In a sense, we could say the album is like the Hymmnos Concert albums from Ar tonelico for an imaginary RPG or anime.

Last edited by aquagon; May 31, 2012 at 05:40 PM.
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  #47  
Old Feb 16, 2014, 07:34 AM
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I want to have this thread serve as an all-inclusive improving discussion on VGMdb thread instead of just the album threads. The discussion board has lost a lot of quality because its been flooded by self-promotion threads. These threads clog up the forum with little-to-no discussion (they're all like 1 post). I've messaged Secret Squirrel about creating a separate section for projects/self-promotions/fan covers/etc. and haven't gotten a response.

I think a user projects board and a kickstarter board would be useful. Would you like to see certain threads (i.e. sales threads or track id) have a separate board/sub-board created?

- - - - - -

Analyzing the first page VGMdb discussion page:
6 threads on one track

Analyzing the second page:
3 threads by one user about 3 different tracks they made.
__________________
Before the heavens, before destiny.

Last edited by Vert1; Feb 16, 2014 at 08:03 AM.
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  #48  
Old Feb 16, 2014, 09:52 AM
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I agree a Kickstarter board or at least a Kickstarter thread would be quite interesting.
That would involve (self-)promotion above everything else but it'd still be nice to keep track of all the soundtrack related kickstarter rewards in a collective manner.

Let's be honest, most of these announcements don't really qualify for an acceptable vgmdb entry, not even after successful backing and often there's no specific info aside from the composer, game title and the fact there's going to be a soundtrack someday.
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  #49  
Old Feb 17, 2014, 02:21 AM
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I agree, there should be a separate forum for people promoting their works, whether via kickstarter or whatever. Discussing VGM and promoting one's own works seem to be two separate things. Speaking for myself and I say this with no disrespect to the artists, I'm not tempted to click on these posts when I check the forums for recent VGM discussion.

I'm kind of glad to see this thread. I've noticed the lack of subjective discussion about the music and have openly wondered about it, whether its out of place here or not. At the least, if someone posts a quick impression (positive or negative) about a track, I'm tempted to listen for myself and draw my own conclusions about it. I tend to trust forum opinions over regular reviews because they are more spontaneous.

I started up a capsule review thread over at Soundtrackcentral. Mostly just to give me something to type when I listen, so is just kind of unscripted chaos. More fun than writing full-on reviews for albums, that's for sure.

http://www.soundtrackcentral.com/for...ic.php?id=7400
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  #50  
Old Feb 17, 2014, 09:51 PM
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Haha, did my Kickstarter spamming go too far? I do think a separate board would be useful for the projects and stuff. I wonder if that wouldn't make the Video Game Music Discussion forum go completely dead though. People don't tend to do here much of the type of chatting and polls that happen on other sites, and even when a thread like that does get made replies are infrequent. Of course I'd like for it to be otherwise, but I get the impression many people here have already had those discussions several times over in the past and don't have a lot of passion for it now.
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  #51  
Old Feb 17, 2014, 10:55 PM
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Heh, even on the other forums, VGM discussions are few and far between. I kind of get the whole thing about topics that have been discussed to death (although I find it interesting nowadays to see how well some VGM has aged), but even the new stuff doesn't seem to get much love or mention. It's just odd because usually my first inclination when I discover something is to post or mention it, but I'd almost be afraid to do that here.

I don't think the promotions (kickstarter or otherwise) help or hurt the discussion forums, I just don't think they'll find their target audience there. Also brings back bad memories of the old music4games forum, where most of the posts were people just looking to make VGM for a living. If I'm bored or something, it would be nice to have a forum to kind of stumble into and check out new music. Kind of like Bandcamp.
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