PSCN-5001~3: FINAL FANTASY VI ORIGINAL SOUND VERSION

[suicider]

I found this photo, can anyone confirm, that the sticker (?) was included with the first press and not a repress?

[Xenofan 29A]

Yes. It did not come with my copy.

[yindesu]

I'm wondering if the Amazon.com link (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00066VUUM/) really belongs here. The corresponding product on Amazon.co.jp (http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00066VUUM/) is the 2004 reprint, not this 1994 original.

(and also the fact that I suspect all the ~$22 new copies on Amazon.com are bootlegs, considering the prices on Amazon.co.jp. A buyer of one of those US sellers left a positive review saying he got sold a very convincing bootleg.)

[Hellacia]

If you want the 1994 entry at Amazon.co.jp, it's http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B00005FNVF/

Also: first game soundtrack I ever owned :')

[Xenofan 29A]

Originally Posted by Hellacia

Also: first game soundtrack I ever owned :')

Me too! Well, the first import, at any rate.

[Hellacia]

Awesome. Actually, I got this and Suikoden for the same Christmas, but I opened this first, and I consider it my first real VGM love anyway, since it's the first soundtrack I ever considered buying - as in, with my own money, back in what... junior high? XD It's a classic, and definitely Nobuo's most consistent work. I think his best songs can be found in FF8, but I think that starting with FF7 and on, the soundtracks started to get filled with a lot of... I dunno... filler. On this entire soundtrack, I don't care for about 2 songs, but I just listened to all of FF8 on Monday and all of FF9 on Tuesday, and I disliked literally half of each soundtrack.

This soundtrack is darn good

[Dragon God]

One of the rare "perfect" RPG soundtracks out there. There isin't a single track that I don't enjoy. I'd guess having played the game like 20+ times also helps for appreciating it so much

[dissident93]

Originally Posted by Dragon God

One of the rare "perfect" RPG soundtracks out there. There isin't a single track that I don't enjoy. I'd guess having played the game like 20+ times also helps for appreciating it so much

Agreed. I have become less interested in Nobuo recently, but this and FF9 still have some of my favorite soundtracks in gaming.

[Jormungand]

Originally Posted by Dragon God

One of the rare "perfect" RPG soundtracks out there. There isin't a single track that I don't enjoy. I'd guess having played the game like 20+ times also helps for appreciating it so much

You're absolutely right. Despite my waning interest in Uematsu over the years, FFVI is his masterpiece.

And good to see you posting DG!

[Dag]

I'll throw the negative note in and say I can't see the appeal.

To me the music is only as good as the scenes it fills. Which is to say, I never listen to it on its own (there are some great standalone tracks, of course, but the majority sounds like "dungeon" "map" "character" to me).
Add to that the typical LQ SNES samples, meh.

[Xenofan 29A]

I've never finished FFVI (shame on me, I know), but the soundtrack is a favorite of mine. I have no particular sentiment attached to the ending theme, for example, but I just think it's really good music. Same for the final battle sequence themes. In terms of Uematsu, I'd put FFVIII (and perhaps V, which is a weird favorite of mine) on about the same level, but I'd agree that he hasn't composed anything on the same level in the last decade and some.

[Jormungand]

Originally Posted by Dag

(there are some great standalone tracks, of course, but the majority sounds like "dungeon" "map" "character" to me).

What RPG soundtracks do you enjoy that don't sound like "dungeon" "map" "character"? Isn't that the point of an RPG soundtrack?

Add to that the typical LQ SNES samples, meh.

I'd say FFVI is quite good in terms of sample quality relative to other games of its era. And it's certainly better than what we got out of FFVII...

[Phonograph]

long ago, I liked this ost in its globality, but lately I started to find it a bit less good than I firstly thought
probably because my current fav ff ost are ff1-2 ost and ff4 ost (not osv)

but I still like some themes like Falcon and some others

[Mortavia]

I'm very late to this discussion. But, I'll chime in anyway. I like this soundtrack! I think this is one of Nobuo Uematsu's most consistently good works. This isn't to say I don't like Uematsu's other soundtracks, but sometimes he seems all over the map to me in terms of how much I can like one song versus another on the same soundtrack and in Final Fantasy VI I feel that the overall quality is pretty constant. While I may call this my favorite Final Fantasy soundtrack though, I certainly wouldn't call it one of the best soundtracks I've heard in terms of my favorites. Of course it's deserving of much praise.

EDIT: I do have to include this.

Originally Posted by Jormungand

I'd say FFVI is quite good in terms of sample quality relative to other games of its era. And it's certainly better than what we got out of FFVII...

I really agree with both these things. FF6's synth is really enjoyable SNES synth, I'd say some of the best I've heard for the console. And while I like FF7's music, if we want to talk synth quality, I don't think it's very good. I don't mean to say the music isn't good, I definitely enjoy some songs, but the synth leaves something to be desired (and I don't mean acoustically of course).

Okay, and now to business (which is why I originally came to this thread): I notice that we have literal translation track names, which is great, I like that. But, I have some differences in my own list that I wonder if we can benefit from here. First of all, there are the names: the character names are different between US and JP (of course), like Sabin vs. Mash, Terra vs. Tina, etc I think we probably all know them. But also, some terms are different. For example 幻獣, genjuu, is the equivalent to the term Esper in the US version; 幻獣界 would be "The World of Espers" (界 is pretty much literally "the world of"). 魔導, madou, is the equivalent to the term MagiTek; 魔導研究所 would be MagiTek Laboratory, basically. I noticed that in soundtracks like Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy X, we put good effort into translating things as we'd see the names in the US version.

For example, in Chrono Cross:
古龍の砦 as Fort Dragonia
星の塔 as Terra Tower
and in Final Fantasy X:
異界 as Farplane
総老師 as Grand Maester

The Japanese for all those don't say those things at all. But these are good translations! And I think we should do that here too. Perhaps we should use US character names as well! In Final Fantasy IX it looks kind of weird that we call the card game music Quad Mist. Sure クアッド・ミスト is "quad mist" but that's just the name of the game in the JP version, in US version it's Tetra Master. And Amarant is still "Salamander". Shouldn't we use one method or another and not both?

Let me know what changes I should make here if any, thanks for reading!

[Dag]

The default "English" tracklist is what's written in the booklet, so it should remain as-is (as a vgmdb policy), but the "English (literal)" I added is free for all if people like that more.
I followed closely the default English just to highlight the subtle differences between the JP and EN tracklists (ex. "Aria" became "Aria Di Mezzo Carattere") but I don't mind if it's changed to follow the US names and all.
You could also add another tracklist but that's a bit too much I guess.


For the US vs JP names, I don't think there will be a real consensus, since in the end I think it depends on how popular the US version of a game is and if vgm-ers played it, rather than a general rule.

Personally I consider the following:
- there is already an official US translation/iTunes/sound tests/etc using US names? > The "literal" translation may keep JP names (see FFIX)
- US translations are tasteful, there are no official JP romanizations > US names (see CC)
- US translations are random/terrible, inconsistency between sequels > JP names
- Game is obscure, nobody cares? > well...
But again, whatever makes people happier.


And finally, my fav is FF8. Overall great on its own, as well as fitting the game well, without so many tracks screaming "dungeon" "character" "town" and such tropes.
Subtler yet stands out more, if that makes sense.

[Mortavia]

Yes, I'm talking about changing the literal one. I wouldn't change the default English one, it's an official tracklist and changing it would cause it to be inaccurate. I like that you added the literal one. The reason I suggest these changes is not simply because I want to change the English names for them to "make more sense" to the US version, but because it's actually a Japanese-to-English translation tracklist and so I feel like we could translate as we would with any other Japanese tracklist.

Originally Posted by Dag

Personally I consider the following:
there is already an official US translation/iTunes/sound tests/etc using US names? > The "literal" translation may keep JP names (see FFIX)

Okay, I see, this makes sense in that way that allows you to "get the best of both worlds" I suppose. The reason I suggest using US names in English tracklists is because people that use English tracklists are people that play a version of the game in English - right? If you speak Japanese and/or play Japanese versions, then of course you'll want Japanese or Romaji tracklists. But if you use an English tracklist, then it's because you speak English and play US version games, right? If that's the case, then it makes little sense to leave the Japanese versions of names in the game in those tracklists since it doesn't fit the audience it's created for. If I'm someone that knows the English version of FFIX, then I'm someone that knows Salamander as Amarant and seeing it as Salamander is partially like using a Romaji tracklist in a way. Hopefully I've made sense with that... and perhaps others who use English tracklists disagree.

Oh, and as for this music... do you mean you find it to be more generic RPG music? There are songs in Final Fantasy VIII that really do transcend the genre of game they're written for - just a few (in my opinion), but it is true of that soundtrack. I guess I can't say that for Final Fantasy VI, maybe it all sounds like "just RPG music", but it's good RPG music and I like many of the songs. Also, perhaps it's because you played the game and know that a specific song is a character theme or a town theme that makes you feel those particular tracks are so identifiable as such? Maybe if you listened to this soundtrack blindly, without knowing any track names or where the songs played in the game, you wouldn't feel the same way. Of course maybe that's a moot point, because you can't do that if you've played the game, but... I'm not sure I feel like this soundtrack falls into so many cliches. Maybe a little, but not overly much.

[GoldfishX]

That is what I like about this soundtrack. It IS stereotypical RPG music in most spots, but every example is done perfectly. It (along with FFIV early on) pretty much defined my tastes in RPG music early on and it has done nothing but reward me the more I listen to it. Yes, I played the game and loved the music then, but there were a lot of tracks I didn't manually record that I now listen to frequently on the soundtrack. No other RPG soundtrack comes close to the sheer quality of this one, to me.

3 Discs and I'm hard pressed to find ANYTHING to remove from this one. Occasionally I won't feel like sitting through the ending or Dancing Mad, but that's about it.

[Dag]

Originally Posted by Mortavia

Hopefully I've made sense with that... and perhaps others who use English tracklists disagree.

Your argument makes sense, though I think these days most vgm fans don't even play the games anymore.
Anyway we could make it simpler and just go with full US names, so if nobody comments otherwise I guess we could go ahead and change FF6/9 and others.


For the music, I like and find it good, and I don't think sounding RPG-like is a fault, but rather a limitation --it was made with concrete context and to me loses appeal outside that.
I would equal it to many movie OSTs, with lovely cues and all, but stripped of their scenes it's "ok, music" for me. They sort of lose their essence.
Contrary to other RPG OSTs (ex. Vagrant Story), which I enjoy multiple repeats, ignoring the scenes it fills without losing anything.

So when people say it's their favorite OST ever, I can't help to raise an eyebrow.
Ie.- Kefka's theme it's just there for Kefka the character doing Kefka things. No Kefka and poof! random quirky track (of course, stuff like Dancing Mad is superlative).

I realize this is subjective and all, and after all I can't "unplay" the game and comment, but hey, my two cents.

[razakin]

I think literal translation tracklists should have the names with jap names. Especially if there's major differences like Salamander and Amarant. Heck, even Cefca and Kefka is major to me.

[Hellacia]

Originally Posted by Mortavia

it makes little sense to leave the Japanese versions of names in the game in those tracklists since it doesn't fit the audience it's created for. If I'm someone that knows the English version of FFIX, then I'm someone that knows Salamander as Amarant and seeing it as Salamander is partially like using a Romaji tracklist in a way.

You put this in such a way that I couldn't have explained it better myself, really. And I totally agree. What's the point of having something that is half-translated? Because that's essentially what it is. If we don't change character names, then why do we change 星の塔 into "Terra Tower"? What's the difference there? That's blatantly as senseless. 星の塔 is "tower of stars". If we're so worried about keeping all the original Japanese in a translation, then we need to do away with all of that. And personally, I think that would be taking away from what makes an English tracklist a fully-done job.

[Mortavia]

Dag: Sure, I see what you mean! I hope you don't feel like I'm interrogating the validity of what you feel, I just want to know more about what you feel, since I like talking about music. Actually, I agree with one part of what you say totally, and then another not at all. Yes, movie OSTs are usually lacking something that makes me want to listen to it outside of the movie and it's a perfect example, I understand what you mean. I even agree about Kefka's music, I don't listen to that particular track because it is for Kefka doing Kefka things! (Haha, I like how you said that.)

But one thing I can't agree on is that Vagrant Story is an exception to this; quite frankly, I think it's the perfect example of this. I think Vagrant Story's music is really good and in some ways it's a defining soundtrack for Sakimoto, it's not exactly like all his other stuff, it's dramatic and dark and that's good. But I'd say... easily 2/3 of the songs I can't listen to outside the game, and maybe it's because of their cinematic movie-soundtrack nature. Of course it's just what I think of that soundtrack, but then I guess that takes us off-topic here! I see what you say though and Final Fantasy VI does have a few of those tracks, certainly.

I think most people that will say Final Fantasy VI is one of the best RPG soundtracks ever will also say it's one of the best RPGs ever. Personally, I can't say either one for my own subjective tastes. Great music and great game, yes, but not perfect in either area. By the way Xenofan 29A, I never finished the game either. It's fun but it was long for back then (or maybe it still is) and I just never powered through it.

EDIT: Hellacia, you posted while I was posting. Okay, so you agree, but Razakin doesn't... but I think that a "translation" is more than just turning a Japanese word into an English word: you need to turn it into the right one, the one that makes sense for what you are translating. This goes for anything you're translating, not just kanji. Of course there's an argument that you should keep everything in its original, "correct" form: his name isn't Amarant, it's originally Salamander. But if you want original text then it seems like you'd want the Japanese, once you translate it to another language it has already lost some of its originality regardless of how good a translator you are, because the languages are different beyond just having equivalents for words and such.

Maybe more people will chime in, or... maybe I'll just decide to do it or not to do it. It seems like I shouldn't act just yet, there's what I think we should do, and then there's what's best for the site and they may not always be the same.

[Hellacia]

Originally Posted by Mortavia

his name isn't Amarant, it's originally Salamander.

I can pretty easily argue that his name is Amarant and not Salamander though

English tracklists shouldn't try to be original, because they're not. They shouldn't worry about containing Japanese names, because they're not Japanese. All that is stuff you use the Japanese tracklists for.

*my thoughts*

[GoldfishX]

Originally Posted by Dag

For the music, I like and find it good, and I don't think sounding RPG-like is a fault, but rather a limitation --it was made with concrete context and to me loses appeal outside that.
I would equal it to many movie OSTs, with lovely cues and all, but stripped of their scenes it's "ok, music" for me. They sort of lose their essence.
Contrary to other RPG OSTs (ex. Vagrant Story), which I enjoy multiple repeats, ignoring the scenes it fills without losing anything.

See, it is funny, I could flip the two soundtracks around in this statement and say the same thing. Sakimoto just has so many tracks I've heard that literally begin, then end, and I feel nothing towards them. The tracks I've sampled from Vagrant Story pretty much work like that. Unless I want to go out of my way and dig for something to latch onto through repeated listening, which I stopped doing with most music in general (and I'm probably better off for it).

Uematsu, on the other hand, I usually feel at least something enough about the track (good, bad, derivative, unique, etc) on first listen and then I decide if I want to keep/delete it. FFVI, there aren't any tracks I feel I want to remove. That's stark contrast to the PS1 FF's, where I can get by with essentially personalized greatest hits versions of the soundtracks.

Uematsu brings a sense of pop to his soundtracks and they are very melodically driven (usually), so that aspect helps them work well out of context. There are times where this falls flat (when he is trying to write either emotional or mysterious music usually), but my favorite aspect of his music are the more upbeat and fun tracks (especially battle tracks...as dark and evil as Dancing Mad is, it's a track I consider fun).

[Jormungand]

If VI ever gets 3DS'd (as it should), I hope Square goes external and hires a team of freelance arrangers. I haven't really been impressed by any of their internal soundtrack arranging.

Originally Posted by Mortavia

I think most people that will say Final Fantasy VI is one of the best RPG soundtracks ever will also say it's one of the best RPGs ever.

I think you're probably right about that.

Within the series, I rate both pretty highly. It's definitely my favorite Uematsu score (have I said that already?) and VI is probably my second favorite FF game. RPGs in general? Yes, both are still among my favorites. Perhaps not top ten, but not far away.

[Mortavia]

It may be my favorite Uematsu work as well. But I think when I joined this site, I gave some things some quickie ratings that now I need to go back and... adjust. Which is understandable, I didn't come to this site with a big ratings system already amassed, I'm starting it from scratch so I need to build a sort of proper tier for soundtracks and such. I rated Final Fantasy VIII a 4.5, ack, no way! Probably 4.0, like I'd rate this soundtrack, and bump Final Fantasy IX down to 3.5. They're all good soundtrack and I don't want to say 2.5 or anything, but now I realize that there are soundtracks I need to distinguish at higher levels than these.

Oh anyway, I went off there, sorry... I meant to ask you, what is your favorite Final Fantasy game? I've "played" all the main series games but actually I've never beaten any of them! And some I don't remember too much at all. Is Final Fantasy VII perhaps your favorite? It seems to be the game in the series that gets the most praise.

[Jormungand]

Originally Posted by Mortavia

It may be my favorite Uematsu work as well. But I think when I joined this site, I gave some things some quickie ratings that now I need to go back and... adjust. Which is understandable, I didn't come to this site with a big ratings system already amassed, I'm starting it from scratch so I need to build a sort of proper tier for soundtracks and such.

Yeah, I took a glance at my own ratings history and things aren't quite balanced. Oh well.

Oh anyway, I went off there, sorry... I meant to ask you, what is your favorite Final Fantasy game? I've "played" all the main series games but actually I've never beaten any of them! And some I don't remember too much at all. Is Final Fantasy VII perhaps your favorite? It seems to be the game in the series that gets the most praise.

I would agree that VII is the fan favorite, for a variety of reasons. However, for me, it doesn't quite make top three.

XII is my favorite. I just love the battle system, the characters, the cutscenes, everything really. And this is coming from someone who started with IV and considered VI his favorite for years. XII handily dethroned it. And the International version fixed what few flaws the original game began with.

Admittedly, as much as a like the music, the soundtrack suffered from being synthesized (and I say this about very, very few game soundtracks). I can only take so much of Sakimoto's brass crescendos and cymbal rolls before wondering how amazing it would all sound played by a live orchestra.

Also, many would argue that XII's story falls apart mid-to-late game, so your mileage may vary--but I recommend trying it. Although if you haven't gotten around to completing the SNES era games yet, they're all worth it. Unless of course you played enough that you decided you didn't like them, which is understandable.

Taste in the FF series is a funny thing. VII is the most revered (and also the best seller), followed closely by X (although it seems VIII miraculously surpassed it in sales). But Square has chosen IV as its most beloved champion, giving it an incarnation on seemingly every console known to man. I believe this favoritism is correctly aligned to the "image" of Final Fantasy--entry #4 is truly the most symbolic and definitive FF, at least in my opinion. Even if it isn't my top choice (but still my third).

VII's popularity is understandable, but perhaps artificially inflated by the influx of new JRPG players as well as Playstation owners. The reason for X's popularity is less obvious--I can't really explain it myself. There's a quickness to the battle system and a brilliant character-switching mechanic, but mostly it's a perfectly ordinary JRPG. The one exception being Hamauzu and Nakano's contribution to the soundtrack which is utterly genius.

I-III are highly acquired tastes because they are necessarily primitive; V is brilliant if only for its job system which you simply must play; VIII is largely divisive but has a highly polished and impressive narrative throughout the first disc; and IX is praised mostly for its "throwback" to classic gameplay, unfortunately eschewing a competent battle system and plot in the process.

VI has its diehard fans like any other. But what makes VI special is that it really does possess many objectively strong aspects, be it the music, the story, the experimental but often amazing interactive events, the large cast, etc. That said, there's lots of people who have harsh reactions to praise shoveled onto any post-SNES FF game you can name. But when it comes to VI, there just aren't a lot of gaping holes that can identified as crippling or even muddying to the overall experience. The best criticism it usually takes deals with a certain world-changing event that also reboots the narrative mid-game and suddenly gives the player the choice to do as they please. Yet, even then, there's a compelling reason to stay on track and see the plot through to the end.

There's also the fact that the game is, indeed, too easy. But I don't know many people who play JRPGs for their difficulty.

[Foxhack]

Originally Posted by Dag

Add to that the typical LQ SNES samples, meh.

... if you think the SNES version is bad, then stay away from the GBA version. It'll probably make your ears bleed and melt away. :P

Hell, I hate it. It's the sole reason why I can't finish the GBA port. Meh.

[GoldfishX]

My stab at X's popularity: New console, graphical tour de force, fairly accessible story, hype over the new battle engine (which is nowhere near as innovative as it was made out to be) and hype in general. Remember, Sony sold tons of PS2's and RPG fans were starved for good games on it that first year. I enjoyed it and got through the whole thing, but it never came close to being one of my favorite RPG's, let alone FF's.

[Jormungand]

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

My stab at X's popularity: New console, graphical tour de force, fairly accessible story, hype over the new battle engine (which is nowhere near as innovative as it was made out to be) and hype in general. Remember, Sony sold tons of PS2's and RPG fans were starved for good games on it that first year.

Yes, that all does make sense. It's a situation not entirely unlike VII then.

[Mortavia]

Hmm, maybe you're right Jormungand, maybe IV is the "definitive Final Fantasy", if not only because it was the first game to give Final Fantasy such an identifiable style. Though I haven't finished any of them, I have played 1-10 and when I think of this fact, yeah IV is the game that I can say that at least V and VI are sort of modeled after, whereas I-III don't really seem closely connected to each other. It makes sense.

I've never really seen anyone say Final Fantasy XII is the best and my friend owns Final Fantasy XII so I guess I'll have to check it out! Now that I think of it, I actually haven't played anything past X-2, so it will be new for me. This is interesting, because you really can hear all sorts of things about Final Fantasy games: VIII sucks, IX is boring, V doesn't have enough story... etc. But then I've talked to people at school about Final Fantasy and they'll tell me that VIII was the best Final Fantasy, and that they've played up to Final Fantasy XIII-2! So you're right, taste in this series is funny, but I suppose that's taste as usual.

Here's what I remember about the Final Fantasy games:

Spoiler:

FFI: Like you said, it's very primitive. I played it very briefly, it would require some patience to get into.
FFII: I didn't like this too much, there was some way you could be penalized in stats? This game is hard.
FFIII: This game has jobs, which is fun... I remember the least about this game, maybe I thought it was kind of run-of-the-mill.
FFIV: Of course, this game seems like one I'd want to finish. I made it around halfway through.
FFV: Maybe I suck at games but I remember this game being extremely difficult, to the point where I could hardly fight some random battles. I had Krile, so I made it pretty far... maybe I'll finish it one day. I made it the furthest in this and FFVI.
FFVI: I made it to Dark World. Maybe it's blasphemous but I couldn't pick a favorite between this and FFIV based on what I played, they're both great games. I like the large cast like you mentioned, and Espers are also fun.
FFVII: This is a classic RPG I guess you can say. Materia is fun, my favorite system up to this point, but that doesn't make it my favorite FF installment. I was somewhere on disc 2.
FFVIII: Drawing magic started out fun, but got really repetitive. Couple it with the fact that I don't want to use my magic because it's junctioned to my stats, and that GFs are really overpowered... kind of blah, not a favorite. I made it to the end of disc 1.
FFIX: I remember little about this game too, like FFIII. I'll guess it's because nothing really stands out about it, it seemed like a really classic RPG... like, really classic. I was somewhere on disc 2.
FFX: Like you mentioned about FFVI, FFX is absurdly easy. When I think about it, pretty much all of them are (except II and V) but this one struck me as boringly so. Something odd about me: I don't play games for story. Yes, not even RPGs. Story is something I expect from a book or a movie but not a game, I expect gameplay from a game and FF10's wasn't that interesting, switching characters was overpowered and the sphere grid was more work than was worth getting a whole sphere level for (congrats, here's an empty node!). And again, Yuna>>>Aeon>>>win, not so interesting. I made it to Guadosalam.
FFX-2: I found this game fun, it had a sort of real-time aspect that was cool. The mission system was neat I guess, and maybe this was one of the games I thought was a little more fun, even if "lighthearted" (I'm sure it gets more "serious" though). I made it somewhere into Chapter 2.

Also, FFVIII probably surpassed FFX in sales because it came immediately after FFVII, so most people probably just bought it outright in anticipation. Seems to make sense. Well, maybe it's time to call my friend and strong-arm FFXII from her...