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  #1  
Old Aug 23, 2008, 07:40 PM
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My CD has a 17th track on disc 2, a long version of Olha (1:16). Was the track list taken from a website or from an actual album? Perhaps a hidden track? should I add it?
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  #2  
Old Aug 23, 2008, 07:45 PM
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It looks like a mistake to me. This album was added a long time ago, back when it was a little harder to see if you got things right. Thanks for finding the mistake.
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  #3  
Old Nov 10, 2008, 12:47 AM
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Scans of better resolution added.Mods please clear the old ones.
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  #4  
Old Jun 6, 2010, 09:02 PM
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What do you think of capitalizing translated track names in soundtracks that have some track names presented in English, and then the other track names in Japanese, with all English track names being capitalized? Like this one here, it just looks odd with the translated track titles being in proper capitalization (I think it's the intent to capitalize everything).

But I won't do it yet, because I don't know if it's been discussed or not.
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  #5  
Old Jun 7, 2010, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medina View Post
What do you think of capitalizing translated track names in soundtracks that have some track names presented in English, and then the other track names in Japanese, with all English track names being capitalized? Like this one here, it just looks odd with the translated track titles being in proper capitalization (I think it's the intent to capitalize everything).

But I won't do it yet, because I don't know if it's been discussed or not.
There's not really a set standard for this, and while doing it like it's been done here makes the translated titles stand out (so you can see which are original and which aren't more easily), you're right that keeping the capitalization consistent can make it look better as well.
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  #6  
Old Jun 7, 2010, 11:58 AM
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Personally I prefer translating these using regular capitalization, I think a global caps standard is preferable to a per-album one.
In the JP tracklists tracks using kana stand out from those in CAPS, so it's natural in the ENG tracklists these same tracks stand out as well (they could have used CAPS instead of kana for all we know but choose not).

Plus it signals 'this track is translated' which I like. Though I guess sometime in the future there'll be a "translation guidelines" discussion and we can set it there.
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  #7  
Old Jun 7, 2010, 12:01 PM
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I also usually do it the way Dag does, for pretty much the same reasons.
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  #8  
Old Jun 7, 2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
they could have used CAPS instead of kana for all we know but choose not
And arguably, they could have also used proper capitalization on any tracks for all we know but chose not to. We don't know anything about the capitalization, because Japanese characters are not English words, and the two are not really comparable or easily interchangeable (and romaji typically has no capitalization standards anyway). My point was that in this album, whenever writing something in English, they chose to use full caps, when they could have just as easily written that track in Japanese and then it would magically no longer be in caps when we get to it? When we write it in English, shouldn't we also use full caps? It feels sort of like taking something that was originally written in caps and changing it to proper capitalization (except we don't officially know because it's kanji / kana). It feels sort of like I'm missing the point if I don't put it in full caps.

I still won't change anything though, thanks for letting me know.
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  #9  
Old Jun 7, 2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
Personally I prefer translating these using regular capitalization, I think a global caps standard is preferable to a per-album one.
In the JP tracklists tracks using kana stand out from those in CAPS, so it's natural in the ENG tracklists these same tracks stand out as well (they could have used CAPS instead of kana for all we know but choose not).
In general, I try to match translations with whatever the case style is (if there is one), but that's an interesting argument. I've never thought about it like that.

Question: what do you think should be done with translations if the album has normal title caps for its English titles, like the La Pucelle OST? By the same argument, the translated titles should be set in all caps or something to set them apart from the titles that were already in English, right?
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  #10  
Old Jun 7, 2010, 03:56 PM
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Wow, what an interesting discussion, and a great point made by CHz. We'd have to full CAPS a whole grip of albums on that argument. In addition, I don't think it's even feasible to try and come up with any sort of global standard for capitalization. Everyone capitalizes differently. Even capitalization standards within the English language differ depending on where you live.

Another good point, by Medina: say one of these tracks that had been written in all CAPS was instead written in Japanese. Let's take "THE PIRATE SHIP", for example. Say this was instead written 海賊船 (pirate ship). Are we now going to translated this as "The Pirate Ship" even though it could have very easily been written "THE PIRATE SHIP" if they hadn't chosen to use kanji?

Also, I just have to chime in that it's funny you linked that album in particular, CHz, because I literally bought it yesterday :P

Last edited by Hellacia; Jun 7, 2010 at 04:01 PM.
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  #11  
Old Jun 7, 2010, 04:08 PM
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Maybe it makes sense to default towards standard English capitalization (1st letter in most words upper case) for translated tracks.
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  #12  
Old Jun 8, 2010, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medina View Post
My point was that in this album, whenever writing something in English, they chose to use full caps, when they could have just as easily written that track in Japanese and then it would magically no longer be in caps when we get to it?
It's true the argument can go both ways and caps are kind of like translations, interpretations of the original meaning (hence we could set guidelines for that later). But my point is more that I prefer to sidestep the issue of guessing "what they intended" and go neutral with a standard English capitalization for general consistency/simplicity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHz View Post
Question: what do you think should be done with translations if the album has normal title caps for its English titles, like the La Pucelle OST? By the same argument, the translated titles should be set in all caps or something to set them apart from the titles that were already in English, right?
Well I meant more "it's natural they stand out" rather than "they need to stand out". You could try to replicate the difference mixing cases but there is only so much you can do with ASCII. Sometimes all katakana/hiragana is used for effect or they mix uppercase/lowercase/normal case, we can't really mimic that so in these cases I just stick with normal Eng caps.
Another tricky example is TWEWY, ex 02 "Twister" is sung in English while 15 ツイスター [Twister] is in Japanese. When translating it you lose the nuance but that's ok, I don't think getting creative with caps is really needed (the game just used "ツイスター (Twister)" which was kind of cool and silly at the same time). But I could understand TWISTER or whatever too as long there is some agreement.
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  #13  
Old Jun 9, 2010, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Maybe it makes sense to default towards standard English capitalization (1st letter in most words upper case) for translated tracks.
I absolutely think it does, as well as the fact translations should try to interpret and express the original meaning in the language they're being translated in instead of being 100% literal. That's also what translators are being taught, at least from what I could gather from my friend who is one.
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  #14  
Old Sep 13, 2013, 12:18 PM
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Okay, let's play a little game in which I'll rule out who composed each track of the Ys VI soundtrack between Hayato Sonoda and Wataru Ishibashi. None of this is official, so all I can do is make some guesses (and probably all them are wrong ):

Quote:
01 OLHA (No idea. I know! Awesome beginning!)
02 RELEASE OF THE FAR WEST OCEAN (Sonoda)
03 GRATITUDE FOR NATURE'S BLESSINGS (Ishibashi) (This is IMO the closest track to Zwei!!'s softer style. Ishibashi also composed a 70% or so of that game soundtrack.)
04 THE AKINDO (Sonoda)
05 QUATERA WOODS (Ishibashi)
06 MIGHTY OBSTACLE (Sonoda, although not really sure. Composing style reminds me to some modern Falcom stuff, but the "instrumentation" is really strong here, with that kickass Egyptian flute. I'm using the Pre-Arrange version from Unpublished Music 2007 and some early trailers as basis.)
07 ULTRAMARINE DEEP (Ishibashi)
08 RECONCILED PEOPLE (Not sure. I'll say Ishibashi)
09 WINDSLASH STEPS (Sonoda)
10 MOUNTAIN ZONE (Sonoda)
11 RUINS OF AMNESIA (Ishibashi)
12 THE ZEMETH SANCTUM (Ishibashi)
13 OVERWATER DRIVE (Ishibashi)
14 THE PIRATE SHIP (Sonoda)
15 Escape from the Great Vortex ~Invasion of the Romn Fleet~*

Disc 2
01 UNDER THE OCCUPATION (Ishibashi)
02 THE FLEET OF ROMN (I'll say Sonoda. This track also uses a little part from Ys IV's Romun's theme as a reference.)
03 DEFEND! AND ESCAPE! (Ishibashi)
04 THE SUCCESSOR OF ALMARION (Sonoda)
05 The Ark of Napishtim Revival ~The Great Vortex Reborn~*
06 THE RUINED CITY "KISHGAL" (Ishibashi)
07 PRESSURE STAIRS (The lack of real melody makes it hard to guess something.)
08 ARMORED BANE (Sonoda)
09 ERNST (Sonoda)
10 BLACK ARK UNVEILED (I'll say Ishibashi, but not sure.)
11 THE DEPTH NAPISHTIM (Sonoda. I can reconize his drum work here, and the synth also sounds like him.)
12 The Ark of Napishtim Collapse*
13 Zemeth's Protection*
14 SPREAD BLUE VIEW (Sonoda)
15 THE MOONSET SHORE (Not sure.)
16 SO MUCH FOR TODAY (Reprise from Ys I originally composed by Mieko Ishikawa.)
17 OLHA ~LONG VERSION~ (Just a longer version of a bleh track that I have no idea.)
I've no idea of what Sonoda composed in ANY Falcom soundtracks, but there's some stuff here that I recognize in many modern Falcom soundtracks, like the drum sample/usage and the composing style. Just hear stuff like the Pre-Arrange version of Descendant of Genos, Formidable Enemy (although maybe this one is Unisaga...) or this two Nayuta no Kiseki tracks and you'll understand what I'm trying to explain, I guess...

In the case of Ishibashi, he tends to be on electronic/ambient side with seamless transitions. We can hear some of his stuff on his blog at sideprotea.net.

Apart that the soundtrack was composed by Hayato Sonoda and Wataru Ishibashi, the only info we have is that Ishibashi himself confirmed that he composed a 70% or so of the Ys VI OST, and that he composed 'The Ruined City "Kishgal"'.

I'll send him an e-mail in very simple English about Ys VI (and some Falcom stuff too). If someone is interested, this is his Twitter account. Hope he response me!

*Not sure about those tracks. They sound like those tracks on Symphony Ys 21st Century** if you ask me, so much that I assume the same person was involved.

**Symphony Ys 21st Century is Falcom's worst album do date

I apologize if you/someone can't understand me at times. English being second language and all.

Last edited by Matron; Sep 13, 2013 at 12:26 PM.
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  #15  
Old Sep 15, 2013, 05:38 PM
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Hate to ignore this lovely breakdown and go for some silly old discussion but... well...

No one really cares whether or not something might be translated. They only see what they see and will adhere to that above all else, because reason and facts do not exist to them. That is why the original tracklists need to be enforced; enforcing translations or even romaji (for non-Latin characters) is lying (but remember that the latter is better and sometimes a necessary evil) and thus hurtful to accuracy. Sometimes, you need to force things upon people or they will never care, because they only have enough brainpower to process what's in front of them. There are so many examples that it's just sad the few people who seem to care will only fight and deny and refuse to care about this, all in the name of fake "convenience". We are in a position to do this and you are squandering it, just like Wikipedia, just like anywhere else! "convenience" is evil, it causes problems. The hard way is really the easy way, and vice-versa.

I really wish this was some silly opinion, I really really do.

Last edited by Despatche; Sep 15, 2013 at 05:42 PM.
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  #16  
Old Sep 19, 2013, 09:06 AM
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You are frickin' awesome, Matron. I've been wondering about such things myself for too long! I do so hope you get an official response, as I didn't have a lot of luck myself, though it was a while back.

Quote:
Apart that the soundtrack was composed by Hayato Sonoda and Wataru Ishibashi, the only info we have is that Ishibashi himself confirmed that he composed a 70% or so of the Ys VI OST, and that he composed 'The Ruined City "Kishgal"'.
Just to be strictly accurate, he didn't actually confirm that about Kishgal to me. Heavily implied it, sure. Unless he confirmed to another at some other time? Also, that 70% comment was probably approximate, so I'm not getting too mathematical about it myself.

Quote:
Symphony Ys 21st Century is Falcom's worst album do date
Haven't heard it myself, and I tend never to listen to those four orchestral arrangements on this album anyway. Is it worse than Provincialism Ys, though?!

Here are my wrong(!) predictions:

Spoiler:
Disc 1
01 OLHA (Sonoda)
02 RELEASE OF THE FAR WEST OCEAN (Sonoda)*
03 GRATITUDE FOR NATURE'S BLESSINGS (Sonoda)
04 THE AKINDO (Ishibashi)
05 QUATERA WOODS (Sonoda)
06 MIGHTY OBSTACLE (Sonoda)*
07 ULTRAMARINE DEEP (Ishibashi)
08 RECONCILED PEOPLE (Ishibashi)
09 WINDSLASH STEPS (Sonoda)*
10 MOUNTAIN ZONE (Ishibashi)
11 RUINS OF AMNESIA (Sonoda)*
12 THE ZEMETH SANCTUM (Sonoda)
13 OVERWATER DRIVE (Ishibashi)
14 THE PIRATE SHIP (Sonoda)*
15 Escape from the Great Vortex ~Invasion of the Romn Fleet~ (Sonoda)

Disc 2
01 UNDER THE OCCUPATION (Ishibashi)
02 THE FLEET OF ROMN (Sonoda)*
03 DEFEND! AND ESCAPE! (Ishibashi)
04 THE SUCCESSOR OF ALMARION (Sonoda)
05 The Ark of Napishtim Revival ~The Great Vortex Reborn~ (Sonoda)
06 THE RUINED CITY "KISHGAL" (Ishibashi)*
07 PRESSURE STAIRS (Ishibashi)
08 ARMORED BANE (Ishibashi)
09 ERNST (Sonoda)*
10 BLACK ARK UNVEILED (Ishibashi)*
11 THE DEPTH NAPISHTIM (Sonoda)*
12 The Ark of Napishtim Collapse (Sonoda)
13 Zemeth's Protection (Sonoda)
14 SPREAD BLUE VIEW (Ishibashi)
15 THE MOONSET SHORE (Ishibashi)
16 SO MUCH FOR TODAY (Ishikawa ) (perhaps arranged by Sonoda?)
17 OLHA ~LONG VERSION~ (Sonoda)

*very likely, IMO.

Slightly lacking in confidence on all the ones without the asterisk, so they could go either way, but I've tried to pick the one I think is more likely than the other.
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  #17  
Old Sep 21, 2013, 04:57 AM
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GUYS I JUST GOT A RESPONSE

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirawi@sideprotea.net
Hello,Melero*

yes,I am! GJ^_^
I like old good melody sound
thank you message.
I asked him about Ys VI and the first Zwei!! game. Not exactly what I expected (._. ). Could someone that knows Japanese ask him, please?

Looks like a nice guy though ^^

*that's me.

Last edited by Matron; Sep 21, 2013 at 10:09 AM.
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  #18  
Old Sep 22, 2013, 12:05 PM
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I saw that going similarly in my mind.

Quote:
Could someone that knows Japanese ask him, please?
Seconded. As an aside, I'm beginning to learn Japanese myself (I seem to recall you are as well Matron, right?) so I may have a second stab in a couple years time Kanji is no joke though...
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  #19  
Old Jan 14, 2019, 08:28 PM
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Courtesy of an unknown Japanese atwiki contributor, we now have full credits. The info they provided was so comprehensive - covering 14 games and even including the composer codes for each track - that I don't see how it could be anything but a leak from a current or former Falcom employee. It's not like faking it would bring them any significant amount of glory anyway.

Hayato Sonoda:
OLHA
RELEASE OF THE FAR WEST OCEAN (arranged by Ishibashi)
GRATITUDE FOR NATURE'S BLESSINGS
RUINS OF AMNESIA
THE PIRATE SHIP
THE FLEET OF ROMN
SO MUCH FOR TODAY
OLHA ~LONG VERSION~

Wataru Ishibashi:
THE AKINDO
MIGHTY OBSTACLE (outsourced arranger)
RECONCILED PEOPLE
WINDSLASH STEPS
MOUNTAIN ZONE
THE ZEMETH SANCTUM
OVERWATER DRIVE
THE SUCCESSOR OF ALMARION
THE RUINED CITY "KISHGAL"
PRESSURE STAIRS
ARMORED BANE
ERNST (outsourced arranger)
BLACK ARK UNVEILED
SPREAD BLUE VIEW
THE MOONSET SHORE


Maiko Hattori:
QUATERA WOODS (outsourced arranger)
ULTRAMARINE DEEP (arranged by Ishibashi)
UNDER THE OCCUPATION
DEFEND! AND ESCAPE! (arranged by Ishibashi)
THE DEPTH NAPISHTIM (arranged by Ishibashi)


Yukihiro Jindo:
Escape from the Great Vortex ~Invasion of the Romn Fleet~
The Ark of Napishtim Revival ~The Great Vortex Reborn~
The Ark of Napishtim Collapse
Zemeth's Protection


I have to say I REALLY didn't expect any Hattori tracks, or for Release of the Far West Ocean to be Sonoda. The outsourced arranger is something of a mystery as well - Jindo is the only one we know for sure that Falcom was working with at the time, and we don't know that it isn't him, but those tracks don't really sound like his work to me.

Last edited by preta; Jan 14, 2019 at 08:34 PM.
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  #20  
Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:32 PM
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Could you link to the original post(s)?

Last edited by dissident93; Jan 15, 2019 at 10:35 PM.
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  #21  
Old Jan 16, 2019, 01:10 AM
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The leak was posted on the top page for Falcom staff on atwiki. An anonymous user added two Google Doc links on the bottom, including all the composer credits of FC/SC/the 3rd, Zero/Ao, Sen I/II/III, Nayuta, Tokyo Xanadu and Ys VI/Origin/Seven/Celceta/VIII, complete with detailed notes of the original composer/arranger and music codes. Honestly, I think it would be better to open a dedicated thread to the matter rather than bumping all the threads, but oh well.

Anyway, it's worth noting that Jindo is credited under Special Thanks in the game, thus being the only freelancer to work on Ys VI. Additionally, the Falcom Music Chronicle book set says that he "arranged" all the orchestral music for the FMVs in Ys VI, but the leaked credits actually confirm composition for these. Maiko Hattori should be added as an uncredited artist as well.
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  #22  
Old Jan 16, 2019, 11:26 AM
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While this is all pretty cool, is it valid enough for us to update our own credits with the composers who weren't credited before?
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  #23  
Old Jan 16, 2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
While this is all pretty cool, is it valid enough for us to update our own credits with the composers who weren't credited before?
That's up to the VGMdb staff, we are just sharing the information and our thoughts. That being said, this is pretty much the closest thing we'll ever get to an official composer breakdown for these games. The leak itself looks highly credible and a lot of these credits are very internally consistent. They are also 100% consistent with all previously known information, such as Takeshita's style, his confirmations through Twitter exchanges and Nayuta's BGM table.
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  #24  
Old Jan 17, 2019, 09:16 AM
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If true, then it's pretty remarkable how accurate the guesses for some of the games were.
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  #25  
Old Jan 17, 2019, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preta View Post
The outsourced arranger is something of a mystery as well - Jindo is the only one we know for sure that Falcom was working with at the time, and we don't know that it isn't him, but those tracks don't really sound like his work to me.
Jindo is credited as arranger for those particular tracks on the wiki page - QUATERA WOODS, MIGHTY OBSTACLE and ERNST.

外注編曲(神藤由東大)
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  #26  
Old Apr 19, 2019, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Tear View Post
Jindo is credited as arranger for those particular tracks on the wiki page - QUATERA WOODS, MIGHTY OBSTACLE and ERNST.

外注編曲(神藤由東大)
The leak did not contain this info, so even if the wiki did say this at some point, it would not be proof.

That said, while Falcom is notoriously bad at properly crediting musicians, it normally applies more to their internal sound team - I can't think of any time that a contractor's involvement has been obscured entirely, even when they haven't been credited for individual tracks, and Jindo is the only music contractor listed in the credits. They probably are his arrangements.
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