#61
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#62
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I'm just going to say I'm opposed to the inclusion of western animation. We do accept video games from everywhere, but there is a great emphasis put on Japanese work and the inclusion of anime (that is to say, Japanese animation) soundtracks is a natural extension of this. Especially since there are a fair amount of composers/artists who are involved in both.
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#63
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I don't think I'm the final decision maker, though I would lean towards it. I think there are a lot of things to work out first.
Quote:
Immortal: I don't know what that is Sky Captain: Live-Action Quote:
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#64
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flag icons would be a option too, right?
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#65
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Concerning Immortal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_(film) What about "Werner - Beinhart!". It's a german production and the movie alternates between live-action scenes and animated content. The two scene types never intertwine though, in the sense that you've animated content mixed with live-action cast (at least I don't remember that). Looks like the english Wiki also has an article ready: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_(comics) |
#66
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For me these are rather animations with some of the 'actors' replaced by real human beings. That's especially true for Immortal where animated actors and human actors interact a lot.
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#67
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Another tricky case for you SecretSquirrel:
"A Scanner Darkly" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scanner_Darkly_(film)) Generated from source material that was filmed with live actors, then fed into Rotoshop and animated after that. And it looks very much like anime! I'm also wondering... what about stopmotion / clay-animation creations, like Wallace & Gromit, Chicken Run, ... |
#68
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Honestly, at this point the line has being stretched so far you may aswell allow soundtracks from movies and TV series in general. I know I'd love to have all those sci-fi soundtracks added.
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#69
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Ralph Bakshi's adaptation of the first two books of Lord of the Rings also used live actors for the battle scenes. I'd count these both of animation. Stop-motion, claymation, and silhouette animation should count as animation too. I'd draw the line at puppets/muppets though.
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#70
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And if you're not able to decipher any of the names/titles given, please make a forum post about it so that others who may be able to help will be more likely to see it. |
#71
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Just my two cents, but personally I'm not too wild about the idea of including any kind of animation into this site. It's for VGM, and that's why I like it. If the idea does go into affect, I think the two should be as separate as possible. Like a completely different site, run by anime experts. At the very least, the portal idea seems reasonable. But I agree with Kaleb that having to filter all the time just to see what you want would be cumbersome and annoying.
- Justin Pfeiffer |
#72
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How would you handle artist discographies? Making users jump to different sites when they move between album entries and discographies would not make sense.
I'm planning a category switcher located to the top right that'll allow you to switch category filters quickly. |
#73
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Japanese VGM and japanese animation are closely tied together. VGM composers score animes and vice-versa, so it doesn't make sense to separate the DBs.
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#74
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Agreed, but I can understand how people wishing to view VGM only find the filters a nuisance. I think it's a small price to pay though.
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#75
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And I though people wishing to view VGM only would want the filters...
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#76
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Perhaps the idea of being associated with Anime disgusts them. Kinda like how I feel about the addition of western animation.
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#77
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VGM is video game music, not anime music. I'm one of those guys who never quite understood why video game music and anime music have to always get lumped together. So they share the same country of origin and a few composers here and there. Using that same logic should we start adding movie and TV (non-animation) soundtracks, Enka, J-pop, J-rock, Japanese hip-hop, Japanese metal/hardcore, and J-jazz to the database too? Plenty of musicians from those genres have composed music for video games. Even Wikipedia makes a clear distinction between the two separate genres. See Video game music and Music in Japanese animation. The first sentence from both entries sums it up for me: "Video game music is any of the musical pieces or soundtracks found in video games" and "Music in Japanese animation is often closely tied to the Japanese pop music industry, but is also a significant industry, and genre in its own right." Quote:
I guess I feel like I was baited and switched. Came here for a site dedicated to game music and now I have to deal with the opening of the anime floodgates. Personally I've loved video games since I was like four years old but I can't stand anime and the majority of the anime fanbase. I'm not saying that to offend anybody, it's just the way it is. But yeah anyway. I like Justin's idea of a separate database for all the animation stuff to be ran by these so-called anime experts. Keep the sites separate but make it an option (in our account settings, so you must be logged in) to be able to link the two databases together. So if you're on VGMdb and you have the linking option enabled, you'd see all the animation stuff as well. If you're browsing AMdb (hypothetical name) and you have the option enabled, the game music would be visible. I realize that this is easy to just type up but would probably be a nightmare to actually code, especially with the artist profiles and such. Or better yet just don't link the two sites at all. |
#78
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Seriously, I don't get your point here guys. We have the filters, if you don't want to see animation music then just switch it off. I don't see how the DB quality should be degraded by opening it for animation. Everything is still done through the moderation queue, so it's not like a bunch of self-proclaimed experts from 4chan are going to trash the DB with nonsense... |
#79
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Personally I like the thought of having VGMdb solely focused on VGM since I believe that'll make it more accurate and a really credible source for VGM. We don't have the anime community to support the addition of anime just yet (but I think we will) and personally I'd like to see an implementation that doesn't clash with what VGMdb is. I'll leave that to brighter minds though, some good ideas are here already.
__________________
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#80
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I claim that there is no more difference than the 'amount of difference' we already have in the VGM area. OK, we rarely have any looped tracks in animation soundtracks but the variety of styles is the same. Quote:
From my POV opening the DB for animation is going to attract more people, and also people with the necessary experience to become staff. You seem to fear that we're now going to face a DDoS-like flood of anime soundtrack additions, eventually leading to a complete halt of new material on the VGM side because the staff can't catch up with the speed. I think this is ridiculous. The system here of adding and changing DB content is _very_ good, it works _very_ well and leads to the high quality of the DB. And this system isn't going to change, so how could we end up being _less_ accurate than before? Quote:
Also I fail to see this 'clashing'... Personally I feel that (even though I might have sounded different before) every new album is an enrichment for the DB, no matter if it is doujin, some new touhou arrange, animation, j-pop, etc. Some DB entries are more accurate, some less. Attracting more people means more accurate entries, since someone is eventually going to work on a less accurate entry (more people -> higher probability that someone picks the entry). I'm not saying that this is going to happen over night. But I'm confident that it will work out. Currently we might have too few people that are 'experts' on the anime soundtrack sector, but it's enough to try it. And everything else will come with time. And if someday someone decides to open the DB for let's say j-drama soundtracks, then I'm not going to oppose it (provided that the rules what j-drama is are clear). |
#81
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In any case I'm not here to argue against the addition, just be sure to give users the option to choose (filters or otherwise) and it'll be all good.
__________________
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#82
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That should be a given for all further additions to the DB. |
#83
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I've implemented filters, so all the animation albums will simply disappear with a few clicks. I've gone as far as separating the forums into different categories. And I'm supposed to code a separate site with a separate domain and separate staff? Even if I were to do that, it'd be hosted on the same server, taking up the same drive space, using the same database. There's no point. So I've made it really, really easy to hide anime albums. |
#84
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#85
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after clicking that link, the albums are still showing on artist profiles for me.
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iridescentaudio.co.uk |
#87
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doesn't matter to me since i won't be filtering them out. just thought i'd let you know.
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iridescentaudio.co.uk |
#88
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Oh, this happened. I approve. I'm also not against any western animation soundtracks either, for the record.
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Collection |
#89
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I kind of don't understand the argument against adding different content other than a purist notion (no offense to anyone). I mean, no matter how much of anything else is added, this is still the #1 video game music database site. It still lives up to its name. But with more content added it only offers things for other people too. This is probably a silly analogy but I picture someone walking into a candy store (labeled as such, "CANDY STORE" across the top of the shop), seeing a section of toys for sale, and then complaining to the owner that there shouldn't be toys for sale because the name is CANDY STORE. Very possibly, some people in a candy store have kids / are shopping for a sweet treat for their kids and kids like toys too. Everyone? No, of course not. But plenty of people.
It's sort of what I see here, people see "VGMdb" so when they see anime being added they complain to the site owner that anime shouldn't be catalogued because they personally are coming here for VGM. But like the candy store analogy, many people who like VGM like anime music too. Insisting on a different site is caring about something that only matters in your head really, because all the information will still be here on the internet, and the same people will be updating and maintaining it, in the same fashion, with the same standard of quality. Anyway that's just what I think, and I'm looking forward to shaping a collection of anime music here too. I think this is a great initiative. |
#90
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I do share some of the reservations about adding anime. The last thing I want is to damage what we've built here. I think we're just going to have to work hard to find the best solution.
The addition of anime really grows out of a desire for the discographies to play a more prominent role, and for that they need to be more complete. While the categories Game and Anime don't overlap that much musically, the artists do overlap, especially the performers and less prominent composers and arrangers. Anyone who has done a lot of linking has seen this. Also, like game music, anime music is not widely respected in the mainstream. More importantly, the need for quality accurate album and artist information is much greater for anime music than the need that VGMdb helped to fill for game music. The current state is that decrepit. I'm in full agreement that we need to preserve our brands, and I hope the separate portals will accomplish that. This gives us the opportunity to actually tighten up VGMdb/game. The default filter should be +game, with nothing in the other categories, so that browsing and searching only shows game-related results. The -anime filter removes all anime, including albums classified as both game and anime, so it's not the right one to use. The discographies should remain unfiltered, so a user can stumble on Works albums by following an artist link, but won't see them prominently displayed on the VGmdb/game front page or by search/browse. Eventually, animation that is related to games can be discovered by following product and franchise links. I think this follows the original motivation for adding all these other categories in the first place. The VGMdb/animation portal mirrors this behavior, except it's +anime. Thinking a little further, I wonder if the filter system is a little too full-featured. If we have the 3 portals (VGM, anime, everything) and maybe this category switcher, then perhaps all we need is a "Turn off Doujins" switch. I think we need to hear more about how you all are using the filter. |
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