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  #1  
Old Jun 23, 2008, 04:48 AM
isdapi isdapi is offline
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I've updated info, partially with help from these websites: http://maru-chang.com/games/music.php/goemon_neo-momo/
http://www.music.ne.jp/~konami/cd/1997tm.html
and the useful booklet scans.

However, I dunno what to do about the composers. Apparently, these are the most likely composers of this game: 冨田朋也 (Tomoya Tomita)、荒木茂 (Shigeru Araki)、柏崎歩 (?)、加藤祐介 (Yusuke Kato)、三木彩子 (Saiko Miki) [all the previous ones make comments on Booklet 4] and probably 上原和彦 (Kazuhiko Uehara).

Sources: http://bsm.hp.infoseek.co.jp/data-konami2a.html#goemon

I don't know who is Yusumasa Kitagawa and I doubt very much of his participation in this soundtrack.
柏崎歩 is very likely Wataru Kashiwazaki (http://www.gmronline.com/info.asp?CatNumber=KICA-7943).


For confirm composer's involvement, I'd greatly appreciate some website/video with info about the credits of this game.
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  #2  
Old Jun 23, 2008, 05:18 AM
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I got done playing this game again recently, and the composers credited for the BGM are the same as those currently listed in the "Composed by" field here - Shigeru Araki, Kato Yusuke, Saiko Miki, and Yusumasa Kitagawa. Tomita and Uehara were Sound Director and Producer respectively, which is also what this site currently says. It all looks correct to me. If you'd like me to get some screengrabs of the credits, I can do that.

What I'd personally be most interested in is learning who out of the four of them composed what on the OST, but that's probably not going to happen considering it's Konami.

EDIT: I've uploaded seven screenshots here.
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Last edited by Blitz Lunar; Jun 23, 2008 at 06:09 AM.
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  #3  
Old Jun 23, 2008, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Lunar View Post
I got done playing this game again recently, and the composers credited for the BGM are the same as those currently listed in the "Composed by" field here - Shigeru Araki, Kato Yusuke, Saiko Miki, and Yusumasa Kitagawa. Tomita and Uehara were Sound Director and Producer respectively, which is also what this site currently says. It all looks correct to me. If you'd like me to get some screengrabs of the credits, I can do that.

What I'd personally be most interested in is learning who out of the four of them composed what on the OST, but that's probably not going to happen considering it's Konami.

EDIT: I've uploaded seven screenshots here.
Thanks, those screenshots explain everything.

柏崎歩 is definetely Ayumu Kashizaki (Sound Effects)

(!) A last remark: This artist http://vgmdb.net/artist/1553 is a duplicate of this one http://vgmdb.net/artist/1548
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  #4  
Old Jun 23, 2008, 01:43 PM
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Thanks for pointing that out. I combined the two artists and deleted the less detailed one (1553).
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  #5  
Old Jun 17, 2010, 09:56 PM
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I think a better translation of the game's subtitle would be "Dance of the Neo-Momoyama Shogunate," rather than "New Dance of the Momoyama Shogunate." I'm fairly certain that the "neo" part of the title is part of the organization's name (ネオ桃山幕府), rather than a modifier for the whole clause. The Japanese Wikipedia article for the game refers to ネオ桃山幕府 a lot.

Although actually, in the game's English localization, they translate it ALL THE WAY and call the villains the "Peach Mountain Shoguns," so maybe "Dance of the Neo-Peach Mountain Shogunate" would be better?

Completely unrelated: I love how a lot of Konami's albums include photos of the sound staffs, but I wish they were labeled with who's who.
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  #6  
Old Jun 18, 2010, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
I love how a lot of Konami's albums include photos of the sound staffs, but I wish they were labeled with who's who.
i know rite i can spot Araki and Tomita, we should be able to find Kato there as well, and possibly the lady is saiko miki but we can't be sure. that's about all. more detective work required.
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  #7  
Old Jun 19, 2010, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHz View Post
I think a better translation of the game's subtitle would be "Dance of the Neo-Momoyama Shogunate," rather than "New Dance of the Momoyama Shogunate." I'm fairly certain that the "neo" part of the title is part of the organization's name (ネオ桃山幕府), rather than a modifier for the whole clause. The Japanese Wikipedia article for the game refers to ネオ桃山幕府 a lot.

Although actually, in the game's English localization, they translate it ALL THE WAY and call the villains the "Peach Mountain Shoguns," so maybe "Dance of the Neo-Peach Mountain Shogunate" would be better?
Isn't the game localized under a different title (Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon), so we should be using the romanized title instead of translating the game title.
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  #8  
Old Jun 20, 2010, 05:28 AM
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Wow, track 42 (0:23, 1:03 for example) reminds me about the Star Light Zone BGM on Sonic the Hedgehog a tiny bit!

Last edited by Nisto; May 4, 2011 at 04:57 PM.
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  #9  
Old Feb 11, 2012, 12:25 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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How up-to-date are these track name translations? Does this soundtrack have one of those stone-ages translations? I ask because track 6 is titled 待ってな!今行くぜい! and yet the English translation has no exclamation mark in it. This is something that seems to be common in old translations. Also, Dark De Bad Na Easy Yo makes no sense whatsoever, but I've tried to translate it myself and have basically come up with the same thing - maybe it's just the quirkiness of Ganbare Goemon.

Also, looking again at the Japanese vs. the English tracklists, the English tracklist has all this game area information in the titles, while none of that is present in the Japanese one. It's either one or the other.
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  #10  
Old Feb 11, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Looking at the scans, it looks like the Japanese tracklist is actually incomplete.
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  #11  
Old Feb 11, 2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
... Also, Dark De Bad Na Easy Yo makes no sense whatsoever, but I've tried to translate it myself and have basically come up with the same thing - maybe it's just the quirkiness of Ganbare Goemon.

...
that's because it's not a translation, it's just romaji left untranslated
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  #12  
Old Feb 11, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Yeah, but when I tried to translate the romaji, it ended up making even less sense, if you can believe that. Of course, I don't know shit, so maybe someone can make some sense out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
Looking at the scans, it looks like the Japanese tracklist is actually incomplete.
Yeah, the scans have that information, but what I was really getting at was whether or not it belongs in the tracklist. I'm one of those people that says it doesn't. Others will disagree. It's an age-old dispute, it seems.
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  #13  
Old Feb 11, 2012, 05:05 PM
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Absolutely belongs there.
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  #14  
Old Feb 11, 2012, 06:08 PM
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@Hellacia: it's simply "Dark, Bad, (comma or and) Easy" (it's just an enumeration)

Last edited by Phonograph; Feb 11, 2012 at 06:28 PM.
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  #15  
Old Feb 11, 2012, 09:07 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Okay, thanks Phonograph, that's interesting. You should change the current title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
Absolutely belongs there.
Oh, so you're one of those IMO it totally doesn't belong there, it's information, not a name.

P.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira View Post
Well, a lot of albums print tracks as '[artist] - [title]' Does that mean we should put that as the track name? No, because the artist is obviously not part of the track name. The same thing applies here. This information can't even be considered subtitles, you shouldn't confuse the two. It's extra information about the track, but not part of the track name (you said this yourself.) If it's important it should go in the notes.

If you really want to freedb tracklists with the stage names in them, it would probably be simpler with the new tracklist system to set up freedb to return a modified track title (a new freedb query), querying the stage name from the source product's track and appending it to the title. Alternatively, stage name could be written to a different field (COMMENT or something), which I think would be more useful, that way you could still search for it (assuming you're using a player that lets you search all metdata) and you'd have the proper track titles. Though, I don't know what the final product/tracklist system will look like, so this might not be possible at all.

Last edited by Hellacia; Feb 11, 2012 at 10:12 PM.
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  #16  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 08:10 AM
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It's part of the track title. If you go by that methodology, then things like "Arrange Version", "TV-Edit", "Karaoke" etc don't belong in the title because they're just information, not a name. If it's on the same line as the track title, it belongs as the track title. You can't arbitrarily say it doesn't belong as part of the track title when it very clearly is. If the track fell under some sort of informational header (like "Original Version" then tracks 1 ~ 6 followed by "Super Arrange Version" for tracks 7 ~ 12), then that can be excluded because they're not directly part of the track title and are just informational. Or if there is some sort of font stylization that differentiates the track title from the informational stage name, there might be an argument for that.

If you apply your same methodology to album titles, then we shouldn't include "single / artist" for all the singles like "blah blah / ayumi hamasaki". But we 100% do.
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  #17  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
If you go by that methodology, then things like "Arrange Version", "TV-Edit", "Karaoke" etc don't belong in the title because they're just information, not a name.
That's a retarded comparison because things like "Arrange Version", "TV-Edit", "Karaoke" literally describe a version of a song while things like "Stage1", "Event Scene", "FinalBoss" describe an area in a game. They're two totally different things and I don't know why you're trying to compare them, it's just bad logic. Take Hatenkou Yuugi, for example. There are 6 different versions of "Take you as you are", each with the style of the version, like "Original", "Sentimental", etc. If we remove those, we have "Take you as you are" written out 6 times, with no difference in the track titles, even though they're clearly not the same track. However, if we remove the game information from the track titles on this soundtrack, then it doesn't change shit, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
If you apply your same methodology to album titles, then we shouldn't include "single / artist" for all the singles like "blah blah / ayumi hamasaki".
You're absolutely correct, we shouldn't. Just because we 100% do something at this point in time doesn't mean we're doing it correctly, why do you think we still have guideline discussions? Thank you for making the suggestion to change this as well.
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  #18  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:07 AM
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It doesn't matter what it describes, whether it's the song or a location or the temperature when the song was composed in Nagasaki. If it's written as part of the track title, it's part of the track title. You can't just arbitrarily remove part of a track title because you think it doesn't belong.

What happens when you have track titles that are just "STAGE 2 BOSS"? Does that get removed so you have no track title at all? No.

There is far too much ambiguity in all of the standards here. I'm fine if people don't think that (area name) belongs in the track titles. I'm fine if people want to hunt down specific composer contributions to soundtracks with composer groups or cds with no specific breakdown. I'm fine if people want to modify small formatting changes like ~blah~ to (blah). I'm fine if people want to correct typos like "Arrenge" to "Arrange". But ultimately all those things are personal preference. You cannot argue with the contents of the physical media for which we're creating a database entry. The physical medium is canon. What is says is canon. It doesn't matter if it's ambiguous, incomplete, wrong or unnecessary. Those are the things that belong in the database, and if people want to include information that is not on the physical medium, or change information on the physical medium, then they can do that but it's by personal preference.

This is why I proposed a canon and non-canon field for artists, because removing something like "Falcom Sound Team jdk" and replacing it with the actual composers is wrong when compared to the album. It's not wrong, because it's more accurate than the generic "Falcom Sound Team jdk", but it's ultimately wrong when compared to the source.

I don't really make standards decisions but no standard will ever be enforceable or accurate if we're accounting for these variations in peoples' personal preferences for things like that. The only 100% true standard that can be enforced and equally applied to all entries is to say that the actual media for which we create an entry is canon, and all other sources are non-canon.
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  #19  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:09 AM
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if a jap track has a certain number of info, its english version must respect it (without omitting anything)
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  #20  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:21 AM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Dancey, I don't mean any offense when I say this (really, not trying to flame you), but your entire argument is bullshit.

http://vgmdb.net/db/covers.php?do=view&cover=44958

The first track on that CD is literally

perfect dark zero™ - title 0:49

right? Because it has a ™ symbol AND 0:49 written as part of the track title - like you said in the very beginning of your post, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
It doesn't matter what it describes, whether it's the song or a location or the temperature when the song was composed in Nagasaki. If it's written as part of the track title, it's part of the track title.
What are you going to argue now? "Oh no, well THAT'S different, THAT'S obviously not part of the title." The problem with that is that now you're already beating your own argument because you're arbitrarily removing something as well. Like you said, we add it even if it's the temperature when the song was created. 0:49 is written as part of the track title, doesn't even have parentheses to separate it. It's clearly part of the track title.

Your "naming canon" is as arbitrary as anyone else's dude.

However I'm totally ready to start renaming that tracklist right now if that's what we agree on. Come on, let's do it. Let's add EVERYTHING to a track title because the booklet wrote it that way and THAT'S CANON. I'm game.

Last edited by Hellacia; Feb 12, 2012 at 10:28 AM.
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  #21  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:43 AM
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Track times never belong in a track title and if that's not obvious as to why it doesn't belong then there's no hope for reasoning with you. The TM, however, does.

When you say something like

Quote:
... (really, not trying to flame you) ...
and then end your post with:

Quote:
Come on, let's do it. Let's add EVERYTHING to a track title because the booklet wrote it that way and THAT'S CANON. I'm game.
I don't really buy it.

Regardless of whether my naming canon is arbirtrary or not, it's less so than yours and yours is without a doubt the minority.
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  #22  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:48 AM
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No Dancey, I'm dead fuckin serious. Let's rename it right now. Because according to your naming canon we need to. If you're willing to admit that there's a reason to leave things off of a track title line because it's obviously not part of the track title, then your "if it's written as part of the track title, it's part of the track title" argument already doesn't hold water because you've admitted that there are special cases where that's not always true. If there are special cases where that's not always true, then it's just a matter of defining what's "written as part of the track title". And who's going to give us that definition - you? We've now established that everything on a track title line doesn't belong in the track title. Therefore you have no longer have any real argument as to why the game information belongs in the track titles because your argument for it was "because it's on a track title line." Your entire argument falls apart and not only becomes arbitrary, but contradictory as well.

By the way, if your argument is that a track time doesn't belong in a title because its obviously a time, then why does ™ belong? It's obviously a legal symbol. It's used for legal purposes. Do you honestly think everything that's ever been written with a ™ symbol includes the ™ symbol in its real name? Final Fantasy™? Seriously?

Last edited by Hellacia; Feb 12, 2012 at 10:57 AM.
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  #23  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 11:04 AM
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where is the hidden camera?
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  #24  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 11:06 AM
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beware, the waffen will kommen zu close that thread
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  #25  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 11:08 AM
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In this case, the japanese tracklist was incomplete at least when looking the booklet. I mean, things like these should be done by case by case. But then, that is my way of tagging.

Also, this discussion should probably move to it's own thread.
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  #26  
Old Feb 12, 2012, 11:10 AM
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Yeah, we actually don't have a submission guideline thread for track titles, only album titles. We should get one, and this should definitely be moved.

Also, I may be in the minority, but I don't know that yet, since we've never had a discussion about it. Also, though I obviously advocate not including game information in track titles, I'll be happy to include them if its a majority-agreed-upon thing and there's a good reason to do it (not "if it's written as part of the track title, it's part of the track title").
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  #27  
Old Nov 14, 2019, 04:46 AM
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Track 42 is called "We Did It, Bravo, Not a Single Cloud on Japan's Sky (Staff Roll / Arrange Version)", even though it sounds like the original staff roll (YouTube link). Is this track really an arrangement?
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