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#31
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Anyone who bashes Felghana's OST is a friggin moron.
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#32
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Are you going to back up that opinionated statement with any kind of argument?
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#33
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if anyone bashing felghana ost is a moron, what to say about people who never listened to it?
ignorance makes them stupid? I wonder |
#34
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.....Nope.
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#35
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Yup if you come into this topic agreeing with the TC your a stupid dumb face.
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#36
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so like I never listened to felghana ost and never stated other opinions because obviously I can't
that means I'm stupid, beautiful logic btw, what's TC ? |
#37
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..........
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Last edited by PerfectZer0; Nov 11, 2012 at 05:16 PM. |
#38
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*put PerfectZero on ignore*
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#39
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TC = OP; Topic Creator.
*sighs* All this fighting. |
#40
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But it's ture Felghana rocks!
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#41
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I'm not arguing that. I really like the soundtrack too.
But that doesn't mean I'm going to ... what's the word, berate? people for not liking it or never listening to it. |
#42
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But the TC deliberately stated Felghana's OST being terrible. I stand up for it. And ppl shoot me down for liking it.
Also ppl who don't like it are terrible people....mostly...
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Last edited by PerfectZer0; Nov 14, 2012 at 06:36 PM. |
#43
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On paper, Felghana is one of the greatest soundtracks in existence. Classic VGM remade. Still has plenty of the rock attitude of the original versions. Originals not tampered with too much. Back in 2005, I had this thing crowned as the greatest soundtrack since Megaman 2. No really, I did. I went back and read some of my old posts...Very embarassing.
In practice, it is poorly mixed with questionable samples (drums and that synth orchestra in Strongest Foe...yeesh). There's little separation between layers, so stuff like rhythm guitars and drums, even the techno/orchestra parts, get buried and don't "drive" the tracks as they should be. The lead melodies end up feeling bare because of that and even when a solo comes up, its like "oh a solo...how nice". Between the samples and the minimal separation between everything, I literally get a headache when I attempt to listen to this one. It is like a total assault on the senses in the worst way possible. And the techno in songs like Illburn Ruins sounds like a bad fan remix of the song. Even early on, I hated this approach. I heard plenty of the music online before I ordered the soundtrack, but literally everytime I tried to let it sink in, I got a headache from it (this was before I was aware of the loudness wars). Finally, I just came to the conclusion it wasn't worth the attention I was giving it. Occasionally, I'll still try to enjoy this one with a random sample here and there, but the conclusion is always the same. Last edited by GoldfishX; Nov 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM. |
#44
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I'm just happy that CDJ has Foliage Ocean in stock, thus saving me the step of sending emails to Falcom. I picked it up, along with Pigeon Blood.
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#45
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I run RPGFan Music now, and I can completely appreciate someone having a different opinion from anyone who writes for the section on a piece of music. Heck, even I disagree with some of our reviews-- but that's because they're ONLY the opinion of the writer. For example, I really don't care for Falcom music, and that makes me a blasphemer to some. Doesn't make me wrong, but I'd be foolish to not acknowledge that a ton of people love that music.
Saying that the site (or SEMO, or any outlet that reviews music) is an insult to VGM, though, isn't something I can agree with. The most important thing to me isn't that we write some review that breaks down the technical aspects of an album in minute detail (especially since approximately none of our writers have any theoretical background in music, other than me, and I'm only learning any of that -now-), utilizing proper musical terminology. The most important thing to me is that we share an opinion and it starts a discussion (anywhere!), because I believe discussion is part of appreciating music (or any kind of art), and I hope that leads VGM continuing to get more popular and loved by as many people as possible. I completely respect that someone doesn't agree with the content of a review, but to say that facilitating more appreciation of the music is "insulting" just isn't something I can agree with. |
#46
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I just bought Celceta (the game). Some of the songs I've heard so far sound alright when they could have very bad. In The Scorching Flames sounds ok, and I like that it's been repurposed into a boss theme.
I came across all this when looking up what songs are in it. It's clear that I didn't read either thread particularly well, and that I need to. This really shouldn't have been split. I don't have a problem with preference. I have a problem with the lack of care in that preference, I have a problem with preference being called conclusion. I have a problem with dishonesty and lies. Quote:
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FM, FC, SFC, PCE, they're all far superior. Ys VI and Origin, both far superior. Felghana is irredemable trash. There is zero soul within the Felghana soundtrack, even as the game threatens to be one of the greatest RPGs ever made. Quote:
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Ys III X68000 also threatens to be the best way to hear that game, alongside Ys III PCE. Quote:
I sound like I treat my opinion as god because I do the research and I am confident in my report. I do not throw out opinions lightly because I actually study the work first. Most people do not, and you can tell because they talk about how works they dislike will do horrible things that they would praise in their favorite works as great things. It's pseudo-intellectualism, a word that I hate and only use because it's the best way to describe this horror. You can tell I do the research because I talk about things with the idea that "dating" is a flawed concept. It leads so many great or terrible things being endlessly praised or endlessly derided simply because they're old. These things become untouchable for the honest, thorough, and group-involved reviews that every work deserves. Reviews are supposed to be a lot more boring than they are. Getting the material for those reviews is the fun part, and it's something everyone should be a part of. Reviews as they are now are conducted only by and for individuals, and they are expected to make money and/or convert people to their "order" instead of informing people about the work; to achieve this, they are automatically sensationalist and highly preferential. This is why so many people unquestionably accept reviews without ever trying the work for themselves. Review sites are monsters because they masquerade sheer preference as laws to abide by. These reviews are fundamentally without merit. Quote:
I will say that you are a horrible person. You lack taste and knowledge in many areas. You brandish your personal opinions against or for work creators, and you care very little about the effort put into a work that anyone with sense would be able to gauge. You dare to refer to your half-hearted, your effortless preference as "labor". I don't really care that you happen to like the color red, that you happen to dislike the color blue, and that you happen to hate people who like the color blue. There's nothing there for anyone to care about, except for what you will do with this hatred. Quote:
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#47
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(The Dawn of Ys was really bad in this game for some weird reason.) I don't really enjoy most of the new songs, but I blame it on Falcom out-sourcing the arrangement of Sound Team jdk's music to Jindo & co. because the compositions themselves are great. Can't say I'm a fan of this direction in Falcom music, and Falcom really needs to grow out of this parasitic dependence on violin that has been noodling Sound Team jdk stuff for about a decade. Thankfully arrangers were barely involved with Sen no Kiseki II/Tokyo Xanadu and didn't prevent them from sounding really good. Quote:
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I wholeheartedly, 100% agree with these two statements here, and this is a stigma you can find in most self-called "experts" of Falcom music in the West. It completely ashames me that I used to think this way thanks to SEMO, RPGFan and Soundtrack Central "reviews" of Falcom albums from the '80s and '90s because "muh old 8-bit/MIDI music" regarding the "terrible synth quality" of their PC-X8/X68000/PCE/early Windows scores and all the Redbook Audio/Yonemitsu/Jindo/Koshiro wanking. They are all guilty of presenting their erroneous opinions and biases as facts because they think they know better than they do when really, they are just as ignorant. It's not until I found Chinese blog FalcomBOB and decided to form my own opinion by listening their old scores via Hoot that I got a better glimpse on Falcom. Live arranges are overrated. Quote:
I do think Felghana is better than FC and SFC, though. SFC is cute due to the trumphets and the new tracks, IMO. Don't really care at this point. We all agree that Felghana is a fantastic game. Celceta was great too but could have been better with extra months of development. Quote:
Ys I & II PCE is overrated but it has some really interesting arrangements like Theme of Adol, Final Battle, Ruins of Moondoria and Subterranean Canal. Ys I & II Complete is the definitely best thanks to the FM-like arrangements and the newly added synth solos. Sidenote: Ys Super Collection came with certain prints of Ys I Eternal, and Falcom purposedly put 2 of 4 of the game's soundtracks into this disc to boost their Special Edition sales. Ys I Eternal comes with CD-DA and General MIDI soundtracks, but if you get this album, you can install 2 missing soundtracks into the game: GS and SC-88 MIDI. In the end, Ys I Eternal actually has 4 different soundtracks: CD-DA, GM, GS and SC-88. The latter two are just... incredible. Same about Ys II Eternal's SC-88Pro soundtrack. Quote:
I don't agree with every bit of what you said, but the general thrust is spot on. Last edited by 《J》; Apr 17, 2016 at 12:49 PM. |
#48
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Myopic focus on violin/guitar leads is definitely hurting both parts of jdk, even though past albums (Ys III SAV) and tracks featuring both sax and high brass demonstrate the potential to diversify. Same goes for how Falcom handles their vocalists these days, trying to prop one up as their diva (Kotera) until she leaves for reasons they're scared to hint at publicly, leaving them to try again (Sasaka). This makes no sense to me. Why not just network more aggressively in a variety of music industry circles to find aspiring vocal talent, interview them about doing occasional/recurring vocal arrangements, and make sure to do the same with pianists/brass, wind, and string players? Once upon a time Falcom had a war-chest thanks to Dragon Slayer II: Xanadu and other J-PC releases, giving them chances to experiment and take risks by contracting outsiders to do arranged CDs, and now they've surely got coffers bursting from the seams thanks to Kiseki money and exploding stock values. It's high time for Kondo, Ishikawa, and whoever else manages jdk to revive the old Falcom music era with more Zanmai, better vocal albums, and the return of proper Super Arrange CDs. At the very least they can count on international appeal from outside East Asia, and I don't mean just the three of us posting. Falcom vs. jdk Band 2010 could have been better. Now, jdk Band 2008? That's some of the best product they've done, especially that arrangement of Kraken from Sorcerian. Re: Soundtrack Central/RPGFan/VGMO being enemies to game music (discussion), I feel that, whether they're awful or not, most of the people I've seen discussing game music in detail elsewhere don't show signs of concentrated ignorance, dismissal, and circlejerking. Actually there's not enough discussion of older music, especially of the Roland/Yamaha/&c. sound module variety, to begin with. These sites haven't made too big an impact on discussions after so many years, instead appealing more to industry musicians and enthusiasts who are often skeptical enough to avoid taking authors' canon(s) for granted, being curious and skeptical enough to listen to game music themselves. I agree with most of the observations above, of course. Buyer's-guide reviews of game music albums have led to multiple, less than historical canons forming and potentially misdirecting listeners from escaping their comfort zones. They're almost worthless in an age where it's getting easier to listen to game music whether you own it or not, and I don't feel reviewers are doing a good job either of disclaiming their biases (with arguments for them) or succinctly describing the music without aping Pitchfork. VGMO's interviews and liner note translations (an area where Shmuplations could rival them) are the site's saving grace, I've concluded after trying my hand at writing reviews (back in the SEMO era) before concluding I'd do better writing opinionated, history-focused feature articles or concert digests. |
#49
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But yes, I stopped writing VGM reviews when it became apparent that spreading the music had become easier. To me, there was value in informing consumers which albums to spend their hard earned money on and which ones to avoid (especially when you're talking prices of Japanese CD's and especially long OOP ones). It was a waste of everyone's time to elaborate on which albums one should download and listen to first. At the risk of sounding elitist, there was a certain magic in hunting down an album that gave a special boost to the underlying music (especially to a retro game music fan with classic Falcom melodies). Throw that same music into a readily available download or Youtube video and I feel it loses a bit of meaning. (also, this is not to crap on current reviewers, but just my personal anecdote) |
#50
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Let me clarify: I am extremely grateful that the Western game music album scene blew up, produced catalogs and album reviews in order to spread information and overviews of what so and so albums contained, ultimately leading to VGMdb, blogs like Original Sound Version, and the general ease with which me, <<J>>, and others can listen to CD game music nowadays. They're not much fun to read and consult anymore, but that realization led me to investigate more albums on my own rather than dismissing or putting off listening to them, so I can't say it wasn't worthwhile skimming through Falcom album reviews on SEMO and then listening to their catalog starting in 2014 when I'd already given SNK and Tecno Soft a shot. An RPGFan review got me to search out and find the album for Gotzendiener—that ended on a good note.
Calling these sites (reviews, features, and interviews) insults to video game music, as a whole, is hyperbole. They're products of the early World Wide Web that were novel in their day and forgivable now (though not easy). |
#51
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Old discussion but isn't this particular song an impossibility in the foreseeable future because it's a Yngwie work? So no more official Falcom arranges of this track and no more appearances of this on any future Ys IV-related game releases/ports. I'm pretty sure the digital download versions of Ys IV albums are missing this track too. Anyway, pretty funny to think about what was going on the arranger's mind when they decided to make Far Beyond the Sun the final boss theme. If it was just the opening, then okay, but it's basically FBtS the whole way through pretty much. Is the subtitle "Mask of the Sun" just a coincidence?
As for this album, it's all about "Underground Ruins" and "Burning Sword". Edit: Yep, the Yngwie track is basically ignored and hidden on the Ys IV itunes albums, as if it was floor number 13 (or 4). Last edited by layzee; Aug 14, 2019 at 02:09 AM. |
#52
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Someone on Youtube claimed he read somewhere that Yngwie sued Falcom, but when I asked him about it he said he couldn't find the source again. I always assumed it was omitted from digital releases and arrangements out of fear of legal action rather than because of an actual lawsuit.
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#53
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Certainly, omission is the only logical choice. The songs are too similar I think for anyone to take the "homage" or "inspired by" route. Anyway, I was just interested to know what Yngwie himself would think about it. Would he be more like "that's cool that someone used my song in a computer game" or is he the type that is more protective of his IP. More than likely he's too busy admiring his collection of guitars/Ferraris to bother about/be aware of a little video game. And even if Yngwie did sue Falcom, it's probably more "Yngwie's lawyers sued Falcom" (i.e. autonomously and without requiring his personal attention).
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#54
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Somehow just rediscovering this. I have no idea how or why I made this post. I sorta remember it, but sorta don't.
Celceta has some good things and some meh things. Some of the arranges and new songs are excellent; 1-03, 1-09, 2-01, 2-08, etc. However, I completely stand by what I said about Felghana. It is simply aggressively terrible to a degree that I cannot imagine early '00s Falcom doing, and yet it exists. I find it quite funny that anyone is attempting to call for bias against arranges, as I will immediately tell you that Ys II Eternal/Ys Complete is fine art (with the extreme exception of Ys II Eternal Subterranean Canal, which basically noone likes... not that this "proves" anything, it's just funny). I also completely stand by what I said about SEMO and RPGFan. There are a lot of horrendous video game-related websites on the internet, not just VGM stuff (RPGFan itself is one of these more general sites of course). Seriously, the game itself is phenomenal, but Felghana's soundtrack is legit bad. I was already outright muting music every time I played it, but recently the developers of the new PC port actually added in the alternate soundtracks from the PSP port. It is completely impossible to ever go back. I don't think I would be happy with a timeline where XSEED didn't exist, even if something really bad came out about them tomorrow or whatever (what they did to Brittany Avery was pretty bad, "industry standard" or not, but I mean worse), simply because they did us this great justice. It's particularly bad because the "prototype" soundtrack in that giant Felghana box is actually... pretty good. It has that new song for (a?) Chester fight(s?) too, shame they didn't actually use it in Felghana. (Fortunately, they didn't add in Double Boost... hopefully they never do.) ... Oh. Just noticed my 2016 post. Why don't I remember any of this... In any event, I stand by basically everything in that post. Feel free to hate me for it. Again, Complete is god(dess?). Celceta is cool. The game itself is a little weird because Ys Seven is itself a little weird, but I don't think the people screaming about how they can dodge everything all the time in Seven/Celceta can actually do so. I will say that, regrettably, I have not had the chance to check out the MIDI modes in either Eternal/Complete (I forget if Complete still has the MIDI modes. The MIDI stuff in Brandish VT and the Brandish 4 arranges seem alright. The thing that bothers me so much about Ys Eternal is that not only is the sound not that great, but that almost none of the cool unique sections added to Ys Complete is present. I am only aware of Tower of the Shadow of Death having its, which is cool actually, though it might be from an earlier version. The Saturn/Eternal version of Final Battle is okay, but... just listen to the Complete version, please. This is also why Chronicles bothers me; they got rid of basically all of the unique sections, which (aside from having pretty good sound) is the whole appeal of Ys Complete. Check out the unique sections on songs like Holders of Power, First Step to End Wars, Final Battle, etc... it's extremely good. It's clear that this was coming off the back of Ys II Eternal which has things like Termination. Ys II Eternal Termination is unbelievably good. Again, the only sour point that I'm aware of with either Ys II Eternal or Ys Complete is Subterranean Canal. I really don't know why they didn't just make it like the PC Engine CD version, which has been my current go-to version for that particular song for this particular reason. Regarding that question about THE ORDEAL BECOMES GREAT (I will not have it, Aifread), I eventually realized that, sadly, that song is used for some very specific boss fights in The Dawn of Ys, and that the final boss theme is really not a final boss theme. Sigh. I don't remember if I've already said this elsewhere. Websites being rewarded with clout for "being there when noone else was" is a very large part of why the situation we are in is currently fucked (Fukt?). That leads to memes, real memes, that persist over very long years. It is virtually impossible to talk to people about anything that does not involve knowledge taken directly from these websites. So many people read these websites and never touch the games being talked about, believing every single word that their pastor of whatever website church they go to has to say. This continues to happen today with established names, and with YouTubers. Nothing has changed. For every one DragoonEnRegalia, there are probably a hundred people who fit this description, if not more. I see it all the time in the comments section of these websites or with how people throw around these articles all the time. Hopefully I don't forget I made this post. Last edited by Despatche; Jul 13, 2021 at 02:01 PM. |
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