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  #1  
Old Sep 28, 2008, 11:17 AM
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Mika Mika is offline
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This is not a reprint of SSCX-10042, but rather a version remastered by Kenzi Nagashima.
Really? I always thought that the remaster credit in the booklet meant that the audio from the game was remastered for the soundtrack, not that this print of the soundtracks is remastered version of the original print.

Of what I can remember, it doesn't sound too different, so is this album really not a reprint but an actual remaster?
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  #2  
Old Sep 28, 2008, 01:39 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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In an interview Hitoshi Sakimoto himself says he let it remastered since he noticed he had not in 1999.

Still I do think the Digi Cube version was already different than the in-game sound. "Ifrit" is a notable example.

Last edited by Cedille; Sep 28, 2008 at 01:42 PM.
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  #3  
Old Nov 9, 2009, 02:08 AM
Amaranth Sparrow Amaranth Sparrow is offline
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I submitted a couple changes to the tracklist, which I thought I would mention and explain, here.

13. Snares Laid by the Hart (罠を張る兎)
Lit. "Snares Laid by the Rabbit", it refers to a line spoken by Sidney:
これはゲームだ。 (This is a game.)

オレが逃げ、貴様が追いかける。 (I run, you give chase.)
オレは兎で、貴様は狩人ってわけだ。 (I am the rabbit, and you the hunter.)

だが、兎は様々な罠を張って狩人を待ち受ける……。 (However, this rabbit has anticipated the hunter and laid a few snares...)
I changed Rabbit to Hart, as per the English localization:
This is my game.

I run, you give chase.
I am the hart, and you the hunter.

But this hart has laid a few snares of his own...

28. Leá Monde at Dawn ~ The Story of the Wanderer, the Vagrant (レアモンデの夜明け~放浪者の物語)
Quite simple, the subtitle comes directly from the last line of the game:
―― And so began the story of the wanderer, the vagrant.

――こうして“放浪者の物語”は始まった (―― And so began "The Story of the Vagrant".)
I opted to follow the official localization. While an obvious referance to the game's title, it's not intended to be that obvious.

Last edited by Amaranth Sparrow; Nov 9, 2009 at 03:47 AM.
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  #4  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post
Of what I can remember, it doesn't sound too different, so is this album really not a reprint but an actual remaster?
It is mixed very noticeably differently. The only merit of this release is that it apparently tries to sound clearer.

But SSCX-10042 is vastly superior and preferable: first of all it is how Sakimoto originally intended it to be as it is 100% faithful to the in-game soundtrack (with higher quality sound), has more bass, more warmth, more space, and it's more subtle.

This is still the same synthesized orchestra, but while this sounds more synthesized, SSCX-10042 sounds more orchestral. Kenzi Nagashima came, tempered with it and made it less good. There's no gain here like in the symphonic suites of Dragon Quest.

Although it can be interesting for a fan to notice all the small differences, at the end of the day it's one album with two different mixings where the remaster sounds like a demo of the original.
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  #5  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 05:33 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteLectro View Post
it is how Sakimoto originally intended it to be as it is 100% faithful to the in-game soundtrack (with higher quality sound)
I'm not sure you know a certain detail about Mr. Sakimoto yet.
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Originally Posted by Datschge View Post
Sakimoto created the score using his equipment, i.e. in a streamed fashion. At some point during the development it was decided to only include the score in sequenced form and Sakimoto refused to do the necessary adaption. So Keiji Kawamori (according to Lierre at cocoebiz) had to adapt the score to PS2, simplifying it rather significantly on the way. The OST uses the sound as done by Sakimoto, not as actually used in-game.
Sakimoto almost always uses much more superior equipment than what the games allow (not capable of, but allow). An example of this is Final Fantasy Tactics Advance; the second CD is a "full sound version" which is probably the way Sakimoto originally did the music.

Last edited by Hellacia; Dec 26, 2011 at 05:35 PM.
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  #6  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 05:45 PM
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I must be the weird one because I like this print better.
The original print had way too much echo/reverb, while this one sounds much closer to the in-game music. ("100% faithful to the in-game soundtrack"? wat)

In fact, I suspect this is a rerecording based on the PSX version, because no way a simple mastering can get such sample differences.
Maybe I'll do some test recordings later...

(from VS PSX credits: "Recorded & Mixed by Kenji Nagashima", or is this just for the movies?)

Last edited by Dag; Dec 26, 2011 at 05:53 PM.
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  #7  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 06:55 PM
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DanteLectro DanteLectro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
Sakimoto almost always uses much more superior equipment than what the games allow (not capable of, but allow).
You misunderstood. What i meant is SSCX-10042 sounds better than SQEX-10068~9, in a similar way as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance disc 2 (Full Sound Version) sounds better than disc 1 (Original Gameboy Advance Sound Version).

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Originally Posted by Dag View Post
I must be the weird one because I like this print better.
Not weird, to each his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
The original print had way too much echo/reverb...
I wouldn't say too much, but yes, and i like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
...while this one sounds much closer to the in-game music. ("100% faithful to the in-game soundtrack"? wat)
In fact, I suspect this is a rerecording based on the PSX version...
I've just checked the game, and you're right, i was wrong about that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
...no way a simple mastering can get such sample differences.
Which tracks, at what time?
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  #8  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 07:03 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Originally Posted by DanteLectro View Post
You misunderstood. What i meant is SSCX-10042 sounds better than SQEX-10068~9, in a similar way as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance disc 2 (Full Sound Version) sounds better than disc 1 (Original Gameboy Advance Sound Version).
First of all, I'm not sure where you got that I misunderstood you. I didn't even address that part of your post. I addressed the part of your post that said that SSCX is the sound Sakimoto "intended" because knowing Sakimoto it's possible that it's not how he intended it to sound because he used different equipment and then subsequently had to sequence it for the game. But on this note, SSCX Vagrant Story doesn't sound better in the same way Tactics Advance disc 2 sounds better than disc 1 because these two cases are the opposite of each other. The argument that SSCX Vagrant Story is the original sound and therefore better would correlate to disc 1 being better because it is the original sound, not disc 2. Disc 2 possibly correlates more to SQEX Vagrant Story, which has a "better" sound.

I hope you see what I mean.
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  #9  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 08:02 PM
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DanteLectro DanteLectro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
First of all, I'm not sure where you got that I misunderstood you. I didn't even address that part of your post. I addressed the part of your post that said that SSCX is the sound Sakimoto "intended" because knowing Sakimoto it's possible that it's not how he intended it to sound because he used different equipment and then subsequently had to sequence it for the game. But on this note, SSCX Vagrant Story doesn't sound better in the same way Tactics Advance disc 2 sounds better than disc 1 because these two cases are the opposite of each other. The argument that SSCX Vagrant Story is the original sound and therefore better would correlate to disc 1 being better because it is the original sound, not disc 2. Disc 2 possibly correlates more to SQEX Vagrant Story, which has a "better" sound.

I hope you see what I mean.
I didn't want to get down to a personal argument but I got that you misunderstood from the tone of your post. You took it as an offensive personal remark against Sakimoto from a person who doesn't know his works enough and underestimates his efforts. While in fact i very much appreciate him, and my remarks meant to defend his work, because i felt this new 2006 "remaster" (by someone else) was a detriment to the original 2000 release.

I know most soundtracks (especially on systems with small amounts of ram and less capacious mediums) get simplified before being put in the game, much like the anecdote you cited about FFXII. Based on Dag's remark, i've checked the game and both soundtrack releases, and i emphasize the change in my opinion again that i think the in-game version and the 2006 remaster are very similar and the 2000 release is mixed differently (it sounds enhanced to me). This is why i say that the 2000 release sounds better, and that's why i think it could be closer to Sakimoto's original version, and the 2006 remaster goes back to the simpler game version.

That's why I still maintain my argument that the 2000 release sounds better than the 2006 remaster, in a similar way as FF Tactics Advance disc 2 sounds better than disc 1, though the difference is much less prominent in the case of Vagrant Story.

I based my remark of "how he intended it to be" (it meant that the better sounding version could be closer to Sakimoto's original concept) on speculation, so i retract that. There's simply no evidence for anyone to say what he might have intended.
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  #10  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 08:17 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteLectro View Post
You took it as an offensive personal remark against Sakimoto from a person who doesn't know his works enough and underestimates his efforts.
Uhhh... no, I didn't. Don't know how you can say how I took something. I took it as coming from somebody who seemed not to know about Sakimoto's apparent dislike for having to sequence things.

As for you changing your opinion about which print sounds like Sakimoto's sound and which print sounds like the game's sound, fine, but you changed your opinion after you'd written that comparison involving the Tactics Advance discs, so it still doesn't make any sense in the time frame you wrote it and that's why I corrected you on it. If you're going to change what you say, fine, but please do it before you say something based on the old opinion

Also just to say something: I haven't heard either version of the soundtrack, so I have no opinion on which sounds better and am not arguing on which one is more true to the original sound. Just thought I would give you some information about Hitoshi Sakimoto, didn't think you were gonna take it as some attack on your opinion of him.

Last edited by Hellacia; Dec 26, 2011 at 08:24 PM.
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  #11  
Old Dec 26, 2011, 09:21 PM
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DanteLectro DanteLectro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
...you changed your opinion after you'd written that comparison involving the Tactics Advance discs, so it still doesn't make any sense in the time frame you wrote it...
It does and always have. To someone who is uninitiated in the subject matter, and therefore is in a different mindset, it may not, i understand. As i've been saying, we've misunderstood each other, and now i see where it stemmed from.
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  #12  
Old Dec 27, 2011, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteLectro View Post
Which tracks, at what time?
Just to be clear, I mean the way how they changed the spacing/volume/reverb of the channels/samples of seems too elaborate to be afterthought mastering over SSCX-10042 (--but I know nothing about mastering). Which makes me think they were trying to mimic the PSX version going back to the original files.

The ones that stand out the most to me:
- 1.06 Minotauros
- 1.12 Golem
- 1.16 Wyvern (brass at the beginning particularly)
- 1.22 Within the City Walls (brass again)
- 2.19 Ifrit
Of course, most sound similar save reverb/volume.
Take 1.01 however, which is prerecorded in the game > it sounds almost the same with a bit less general reverb, but not 'per sample/channel' changes like the others.


Also, my understanding is too SSCX-10042 is the original Sakimoto version (see Cedille's post --if not mastered in 1999=original).
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  #13  
Old Dec 27, 2011, 06:10 PM
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DanteLectro DanteLectro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag View Post
Just to be clear, I mean the way how they changed the spacing/volume/reverb of the channels/samples of seems too elaborate to be afterthought mastering over SSCX-10042 (--but I know nothing about mastering). Which makes me think they were trying to mimic the PSX version going back to the original files.

The ones that stand out the most to me:
- 1.06 Minotauros
- 1.12 Golem
- 1.16 Wyvern (brass at the beginning particularly)
- 1.22 Within the City Walls (brass again)
- 2.19 Ifrit
Of course, most sound similar save reverb/volume.
Take 1.01 however, which is prerecorded in the game > it sounds almost the same with a bit less general reverb, but not 'per sample/channel' changes like the others.

Also, my understanding is too SSCX-10042 is the original Sakimoto version (see Cedille's post --if not mastered in 1999=original).
I agree with everything you said.

If i understand you correctly, you're saying they didn't remaster the finished tracks of the 2000 release, but instead they went back to the original samples, reapplied the effects with different settings (reverb, channels, volume, etc.), so that this is not the usual "cleanup" remaster, but rather a different mix.

I think in 1.22 they might have even swapped the bass sample (apparent in the first 3 seconds).

Last edited by DanteLectro; Dec 27, 2011 at 06:12 PM.
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  #14  
Old Jan 1, 2012, 08:24 AM
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Datschge Datschge is offline
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Holy Moly, this old thread sure go active again. Regarding sound differences of "OST" there are at least following versions wrt sequenced music (i.e. music that is mixed in real time by some synthesizer or software on the game system, misnamed "MIDI" by many):
1) recordings straight from game machine (pretty seldom nowadays),
2) recording of sequenced music pre instrument compression (the most usual case),
3) recording of the sequenced music using the intended equipment (the alternate version Sakimoto offers),
4) re-recording of the sequenced music using some new equipment (happens sometime),
5) (re)mastering (after the fact) of any of the above

Happy new year.
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  #15  
Old Jan 31, 2012, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaranth Sparrow View Post
I submitted a couple changes to the tracklist, which I thought I would mention and explain, here.

13. Snares Laid by the Hart (罠を張る兎)
Lit. "Snares Laid by the Rabbit", it refers to a line spoken by Sidney:
これはゲームだ。 (This is a game.)

オレが逃げ、貴様が追いかける。 (I run, you give chase.)
オレは兎で、貴様は狩人ってわけだ。 (I am the rabbit, and you the hunter.)

だが、兎は様々な罠を張って狩人を待ち受ける……。 (However, this rabbit has anticipated the hunter and laid a few snares...)
I changed Rabbit to Hart, as per the English localization:
This is my game.

I run, you give chase.
I am the hart, and you the hunter.

But this hart has laid a few snares of his own...

28. Leá Monde at Dawn ~ The Story of the Wanderer, the Vagrant (レアモンデの夜明け~放浪者の物語)
Quite simple, the subtitle comes directly from the last line of the game:
―― And so began the story of the wanderer, the vagrant.

――こうして“放浪者の物語”は始まった (―― And so began "The Story of the Vagrant".)
I opted to follow the official localization. While an obvious referance to the game's title, it's not intended to be that obvious.
ah it has been discussed here, so forget my post in the other thread
I'm against using localization since that bad english translation for SaGa Frontier (I still think it must be Ombre and not Omble --too stupid)
changing rabbit into hart, the next time a track will get sun and will be changed into moon?
I'm not against using synonyms for tracks but totally changing a word to match a weird localization, no agree

(note: I'll be amazed if the VS translator originally thought of Hare and misspelt it as Hart, ahah)

Last edited by Phonograph; Jan 31, 2012 at 01:16 AM.
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  #16  
Old Jan 31, 2012, 02:31 AM
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DanteLectro DanteLectro is offline
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I agree, adhering to the original script makes more sense to me.

Last edited by DanteLectro; Jan 31, 2012 at 03:30 AM.
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  #17  
Old Jan 31, 2012, 03:10 AM
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Most of the time the game is lauded for its translation other than a few typos or grammatical hiccups, it is considered one of the better/best Japanese to English translations. It was localized in a different matter using more archaic words and idioms rather than the straight forward speech of the Japanese version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...0csVGCk#t=284s

Shows the line about the hart twice. In a mental exercise I see the sense of why it should be hare, rabbit, bunny, etc. That you normally lay snares or traps for smaller creatures.

I also see it being hart for the sense of the hunting in what seems a kind of European medieval times backdrop.

Thirdly either one fits really when it comes down to the background message. The hunter has become the hunted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_O._Smith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrant_story
http://squarehaven.com/news/2007/04/...xander-O-Smith

Last link is to the end words. Weirdly the last line looks more like it is Signed by the Vagrant than part of the title.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ls6yX8s#t=422s
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  #18  
Old Jan 31, 2012, 04:14 AM
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"Unn jour, un lapin... a tiré sur un chasseur..." (chantal goya)
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  #19  
Old Apr 12, 2022, 06:32 PM
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I finally had the chance to check out some samples of the Vagrant Story remaster more than 15 years after its initial release (and 10 years since the last comment here). While i still prefer the original SSCX release I enjoyed this version, too. I can't comment on what the music sounded like in game but I will say that with this release it feels like SquareEnix and Kenzi Nagashima tried to get the music and overall vibe as close as possible to Final Fantasy XII's sound palette.

This makes sense from a chronological perspective (the OST releases were two months apart) and also from a financial perspective. SquareEnix knew FFXII and its music would be popular and that it would make sense to have another album of Sakimoto's readily available since the SSCX version was out of print by then. By remastering/resampling/etc. to get the music to sound more like FFXII there would be less of a listening curve for people who never heard the original version. This is just my theory but it makes sense to me especially after being so familiar with both the original Vagrant Story release and the FFXII OST after many years of repeated listenings.

Just for fun, I did the opposite of what Nagashima did with the SSCX Vagrant Story print and took a FFXII tune ("Desperate Fight"), changed the EQ, and added a bunch of extra reverb to see if I could get it to sound similar to the original VS OST. This took me literally three minutes and is not meant to sound professional in any way but was a fun experiment to see how much the Vagrant Story "echo chamber" effect can change how a song sounds.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jkA...ew?usp=sharing
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Old Apr 21, 2022, 03:07 PM
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That gets me wondering what sort of treatment the eventual Vagrant Story remaster's music will get. There's quite a spectrum:

Chrono Cross<------------------Kingdom Hearts 1.5/2.5-------------------->Pixel Remasters
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jormungand View Post
That gets me wondering what sort of treatment the eventual Vagrant Story remaster's music will get. There's quite a spectrum:

Chrono Cross<------------------Kingdom Hearts 1.5/2.5-------------------->Pixel Remasters
Where did you get that info about the VS remaster? Is it true? Was it in the Nvidia leak?
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Old Apr 24, 2022, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mac_Tear View Post
Where did you get that info about the VS remaster? Is it true? Was it in the Nvidia leak?
No, nothing yet. I'm sorry for phrasing it that way. At this point I am convinced that Square Enix will port/remaster/remake most of their back-catalog (and they have stated their desire to do so).
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Old Apr 24, 2022, 05:48 AM
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they have saga frontier 2 to remaster before any vagrant story or xenogears (seiken 4 could be tweaked a bit, already in 3d)
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Old Apr 24, 2022, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jormungand View Post
No, nothing yet. I'm sorry for phrasing it that way. At this point I am convinced that Square Enix will port/remaster/remake most of their back-catalog (and they have stated their desire to do so).
I really hope so!! They have a lot of gems from the 90s/early 00's, which desperately need a re-release / remake / remaster. Vagrant Story is one of the most interesting games from the late PS era, I loved it (even if it had some annoying gameplay mechanics). I hate it when companys with a large catalog skip great games for re-releases (like in SE's case Xenogears, Treasure of the Rudras, Bahamut Lagoon, Parasite Eve, etc.) in favor of games like Front Mission or Live-a-Live (not saying these games are bad, but maybe not "fan favorite" enough).

Sorry for being off topic here.
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Old Apr 24, 2022, 06:59 AM
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Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre are probably the next ones to receive the remaster treatment. The prospect of a rearranged FFT soundtrack is pretty exciting.
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Old Apr 24, 2022, 07:10 AM
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fft remaster, ff9 remake to come

I'd like rudra no hihou (too underestimated)
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