CPCA-1076~80: Capcom Music Generation Rockman X1~6

[Kadai]

Hehehe, I did not noticed until today, but the product apparently is missing the Boss Theme from the Sigma's Castle (Rockman 1, in the disc 1)

So, I wonder what more is missing in this product.

[strugglepoo]

Isn't it "Vava 2"? You first hear it when you encounter Vile in the opening stage.

[layzee]

Yes, Vava 2 is also used as the boss themes for the Sigma Stages.

[Kadai]

Originally Posted by layzee

Yes, Vava 2 is also used as the boss themes for the Sigma Stages.

Ow then, thank you! ^^

Since the naming, I was expecting that one being latter the Sigmas satege tracks XD ... but since I did not see a name alike around, I tough that. Thank you for the aclaration! ^^

[Judge Ito]

There's still a laundry list of missing tracks / other problems with this set.

Disc 1
37: Contains sound effects -- may be "hardcoded" into the song, though
45: Contains boss thunder sound effect
48: Part of the intro is missing
60: Contains sound effect of Zero's energy bar filling up
Missing "Get a Weapon" theme from Rockman X2
Missing "Cain's Lab" theme from Rockman X2, which is really a loop of "Opening"

Disc 2
1: Contains sound effects (intro text scrolling)
2: Contains title screen sound effects
7: Contains boss thunder sound effect
13: Contains sound effect of Rockman teleporting in
16: Missing drum intro
Missing SNES "Get a Weapon" and "Dr. Cain" themes
68: This is really the "Get a Weapon" theme

There was something mentioned somewhere (with regards to the TEAM Entertainment release of Rockman 7) that a lot of the original material and/or equipment used for SNES tracks has been lost, so Rockman X1-X3 having this many problems is somewhat understandable.

[Jormungand]

In a recent interview by Chris at SEMO (thanks Chris!), Yoshino Aoki states the following:

That's right, you know a lot about my work! However, I didn't actually compose the original score, but just arranged the previous Super Nintendo version for the PlayStation adaptation. Though there was no technical limitation like the Super Nintendo, I put my best efforts into this work.

http://www.squareenixmusic.com/featu...hinoaoki.shtml

I am not sure where Aoki was originally credited (snesmusic.org?), but I can say for sure that the Mega Man X3 (SNES, NA version) ending doesn't feature a staff roll, so there's no way to confirm anyone.

However, even if she were credited, the situation above could still make sense given the PSX and SAT ports of MMX3 were released only 5 months after the original SNES launch in Japan. What I'm basically saying is: even if her name were somehow in the SNES game's (nonexistent?) credits, she may have been already working on arranging the music for the ports, and hence was included as part of the sound team even if she never composed anything.

So, I think we should remove Aoki as a composer, since this album represents the SNES version of the game.

It's nice to finally have this mystery solved. It drove me nuts trying to figure out which track Aoki could have possibly composed, because nothing sounds even remotely like her style!

[kyubihanyou]

Originally Posted by Jormungand

So, I think we should remove Aoki as a composer, since this album represents the SNES version of the game.

(sigh.....)

The arrange version is also on here - on the same disc no less; they're equally represented. I guess that explains why no one before me bothered to make such an obvious edit regarding Shusaku's role in the arrange version.

Regardless, excellent work on uncovering this tidbit. And yes, Aoki should be in the arrange section; Shusaku as well.

[Secret Squirrel]

I've finally updated the album to reflect the new research. Nice work.

[kyubihanyou]

After this discovery, I noticed more than ever that Uchiyama, like Aoki, appeared to have done nothing during the 16-bit era. It might very well be the case that Uchiyama had nothing to do with the original compositions either. Just an assumption, but it feels so right.

http://snesmusic.org/v2/select.php?v...char=S&limit=0
http://snesmusic.org/v2/select.php?v...char=Y&limit=0

[Brad Evans]

I figured I post these quotes from the Mega Man X Official Complete Works about the music of X2:

Sho Tsuge: "The person in charge of the background music [taking this to be Yuki Iwai] came to us saying, 'I finished the music for the last boss.' So a few of us went in with the project leader to listen to the new music, and we all agreed, although it was good, it just didn't sound like 'last boss' music. That's when the software guy quietly suggested that we make it the ending theme. It was true that music had more of an 'ending' feel to it, so the arrangement was changed up a bit and really did end up being the ending theme for the game."

So, track 64 "Ending" was originally ment to fullfill track 62 ("Sigma 2nd") shoes. The creation of what became "Sigma 2nd" probably followed this decision.

Sho Tsuge: "The music for [Flame] Stag's stage was quite popular among the team members, and when they found out I wanted to cut it, I was verbally thrashed. As an interesting coincidence, 'X-Men' for the Super NES was also being developed at the same time as 'X2,' and I heard the main planner on that team tried to cut the music for Psylocke's Stage, which was a team favorite, and was simularly scolded by their team. I guess we planners stick together and make the same mistakes..."

This quote is thick with irony considering the very beginning of the track is cut off in soundtrack box....

Interesting stuff. I know it's an artbook but I wish there was a bit more about the music.

Originally Posted by Judge Ito

Disc 1
37: Contains sound effects -- may be "hardcoded" into the song, though

I don't think this is the case, can help but think the SPC set is free of the text typing, same w/X3's opening.

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by Brad Evans

I don't think this is the case, can help but think the SPC set is free of the text typing, same w/X3's opening.

By that I meant whatever playback method Capcom used to record the song used a sequence where the sound effects were unavoidable, or "hardcoded" into it. Whether that's because they made a high quality recording from the cartridge or some other type of direct synth from the game's code is questionable.

They were obviously not using SPC files.

[Brad Evans]

Originally Posted by Judge Ito

They were obviously not using SPC files.

I know, but if an emulator and non-company personnel can derive the sound from the game without such hitches through reverse engineering, you'd think Capcom would be capable of doing the same thing. Point blank, I don't find the box's hitches as excusable as some do.

[razakin]

Originally Posted by Brad Evans

I know, but if an emulator and non-company personnel can derive the sound from the game without such hitches through reverse engineering, you'd think Capcom would be capable of doing the same thing. Point blank, I don't find the box's hitches as excusable as some do.

It's Capcom you're talking, if they can't properly give composer breakdowns or even composers at all, how you think they can manage to do something like that. :P

[Judge Ito]

1) Thanks for the quotes from the Complete Works book.
2)

Originally Posted by Brad Evans

you'd think Capcom would be capable of doing the same thing.

You might think that, but that's just not how it works most of the time.

Different companies had different ways of composing music and getting it into the SNES. Just because a few enthusiasts have devised a format for easy listening and consumption of this music (SPC) does not mean it will be widely used or professionally accepted, nor would a company (except maybe Nintendo) have a similar emulation routine of its own to fall back on. Unless they talk about it in those untranslated liner notes, we don't know how these SNES recordings were sourced. I understand a lot of the original equipment used to make SNES songs was junked long ago. From a production standpoint, this is some ancient stuff that Suleputer/Capcom had to work with, so we could be dealing with:

* Archival recordings initially made alongside production of the game itself back in the 90s
* Simple line-in from a Super Famicom running a retail copy of the game
* Execution of game code, and all that it entails (sound effects), through a proper recording system
* ???

We just don't know. The point is, with so many variables, howevers and practicalities involved with releasing this music on a disc 10 years after the fact, a few hitches or foibles shouldn't be judged too harshly. If the whole thing had sounded like someone put a tape player up to a TV's speakers, then we'd have something to truly gripe about.

Also, I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm jumping down your throat. I'm not. It just seems that a lot of people take for granted what's involved in producing, preserving, and releasing older music like this.

[Secret Squirrel]

Should we leave Minakuchi Engineering Staff in the credits, since that's how Kinuyo Yamshita is credited?

[Jormungand]

Personally, I think the MES credit should be added to the notes. There's no sense in listing both Yamashita and MES in the composer field. I think the field should contain only Yamashita.

[Brad Evans]

Originally Posted by Jormungand

Personally, I think the MES credit should be added to the notes. There's no sense in listing both Yamashita and MES in the composer field. I think the field should contain only Yamashita.

I would say leave MES in the composer field because it's the original information given in the box set. However, I'll totally admit that when I label my mp3's the MES credit goes "bye-bye" becuase I'll take a full-blown name over such an eyesore of an alias. For example, Akemi Kimura may be an alias but it's a name, unlike the mammoth MES.

[razakin]

I would leave MES to the credits and make it/her as an alias for Yamashita, and make notification of that on the notes. Though, this depends how other albums are dealt with composers using aliases / common sound team names.

[Secret Squirrel]

Minakuchi Engineering Staff links through to Kinuyo Yamshita, so I'll just leave it and reverse the edit.

[kyubihanyou]

We really should bring this matter forward to Inti Creates, not Capcom. They proved on Chiptuned Rockman and Rockman Zero Remastered Tracks that they have access to the composer files for the Classic and X Series respectively, and they're closer to the fans musicwise. I see no reason for them to refuse (Ippo's on the inside after all, and he's got some secrets of his own regarding Rockman 7). Who's with me?

¡VIVA LA MEGALUCION! Do it for Mega Man 10!! Do it for the Green Biker Dude!!!!!!!



EDIT: ONE MORE THING

Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel

Minakuchi Engineering Staff links through to Kinuyo Yamshita, so I'll just leave it and reverse the edit.

I know I made that alias edit, but that's just being redundant. I say the Minakuchi links and page go bye bye; we know her true name and the alias is properly listed for all time for all to see (with proof, no less), so why do we still have to be so stiff and inflexible about it? The notes section can easily fill in any and all of these gaps. The same can be said for Ogeretsu Kun and Akemi Kimura - is there a problem with unifying all the names and aliases of a composer under a single page [banner], or do you just loathe doing a little spring cleaning?

(ok I'm done)

[folker84]

Hey guy's, I have a personal theory I want to share.

There's a chance that Toshihiko Horiyama compose the "[Inset boss name] DEMO" Track's in the arrangement version of X3?

I think in this after ear "STAGE START" from X4. <--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyZ7ss7JpzM
Maybe It's just me, but... the first 3 seconds of that track appear in the middle (more of less) of the "[Inset boss name] DEMO" track's of X3 ARRANGE. <--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZoqPanZ1K8
I mean, maybe it's a previous version of what becomes STAGE START in X4.

And about the weird spelling of the tracks:

They are CORRECT, at least with the japanese version's of the games:

http://youtu.be/0GRMRBrF42k?t=5m3s <---X1

http://youtu.be/IW0tPmPGBxw?t=6m36s <---X2

http://youtu.be/FcnFytsnpr0?t=6m42s <---X3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNojiFOIDOg <---X4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

For X5 <--- http://youtu.be/glyDDF5fSdE?t=20s

& X6 http://youtu.be/yNoqiQQCV2o?t=10s

The japanese version's show the names in japanese.

The localized version of X6 have the same names who appear in the japanese version (by looking the tracklist).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmlDqr9zYcY <--- ONLY SHIELDNER SHELDON change to SHIELD SHELDON

Finally...
1. Disc 4 track 31 UNUSED TRACK "STAGE SLECT" <--- It's this an misspelled too, right?

2. Would' be correct add in the note field that info about those missing track's & the mistake about ENDING 2 incorrect name in disc 2 that Judge Ito post?

[Brad Evans]

Question: The Rockman Rockman/Maverick Hunter soundtrack page says Makoto Tomozawa did Spark Mandrill... but the page for Rockman X box doesn't. Can anyone confirm or deny? If Tomozawa did do it that's awesome because I love his work on MM7, Legends and Mandrill would be the icing on the Makoto cake.

Edit: Okay, so from above I take it Spark Mandrill and Storm Eagle.

[CHz]

Originally Posted by Brad Evans

Question: The Rockman Rockman/Maverick Hunter soundtrack page says Makoto Tomozawa did Spark Mandrill... but the page for Rockman X box doesn't. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Tomozowa confirmed writing Spark Mandrill and Storm Eagle by correspondence. That info is actually in the liner notes here for the X box set ("Makoto Tomozawa: 1.16, 1.17, possibly others").

[Brad Evans]

Originally Posted by CHz

Tomozowa confirmed writing Spark Mandrill and Storm Eagle by correspondence. That info is actually in the liner notes here for the X box set ("Makoto Tomozawa: 1.16, 1.17, possibly others").

My bad... I failed to realize how late in the disc Spark and Eagle fell. You're right...

[Kaleb.G]

Where exactly was the proof that Minakuchi Engineering Staff is Kinuyo Yamshita? I know Yamashita worked on X3, but I thought the connection between the two names was purely speculation?

[kyubihanyou]

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

Where exactly was the proof that Minakuchi Engineering Staff is Kinuyo Yamshita? I know Yamashita worked on X3, but I thought the connection between the two names was purely speculation?

Go to her page and you'll see that our good friend Psychozeke has done it again

Besides, there was only one composer for X3 that did not have a proper name (who was not a single person) and only one composer with a name who was ever linked directly to that unknown entity. How do those two pieces NOT fit together? Wikipedia listed her as the sole composer ever since that revelation, and in the end, they never had to change it.

(Sigh)... I guess some people need to step back from the complicated procedures in order to see that the answer was right in front of them all along - just like I was telling you before. And FYI, that anagram was my secondary evidence. I put it there just for the heck of it.

[Revoc]

A question: it wouldn't be more accurate edit Minakuchi Engineering Staff as a unit rather than an alias?

[seanne]

Originally Posted by Revoc

A question: it wouldn't be more accurate edit Minakuchi Engineering Staff as a unit rather than an alias?

Technically yes, since from PsychoZeke's pm it doesn't sound as if it was a name given specifically to her, but was rather used as a 'soundteam-esc' generic designation. I'm not at all familiar with the company in question though, but I doubt we will see many other instances of this alias being used.

[Kaleb.G]

Originally Posted by kyubihanyou

Go to her page and you'll see that our good friend Psychozeke has done it again

Thanks. I'm posting the link here for reference:
http://vgmdb.net/forums/showpost.php...5&postcount=13

Originally Posted by kyubihanyou

Besides, there was only one composer for X3 that did not have a proper name (who was not a single person) and only one composer with a name who was ever linked directly to that unknown entity. How do those two pieces NOT fit together. Wikipedia listed her as the sole composer ever since that revelation, and in the end, they never had to change it.

(Sigh)... I guess some people need to step back from the complicated procedures in order to see that the answer was right in front of them all along - just like I was telling you before. And FYI, that anagram was my secondary evidence. I put it there just for the heck of it.

That's all fine for narrowing down the possibilities, but that's not enough to exclaim truth. I don't know how the legal system works where you come from, but over here we like gathering hard evidence. I know this isn't a courtroom, but we should have some solid proof before we go folding an entire artist into another one.

Originally Posted by Revoc

A question: it wouldn't be more accurate edit Minakuchi Engineering Staff as a unit rather than an alias?

I feel we should. The way she phrases her message, she treats Minakuchi Engineering Staff as an actual company, even if she may be the only employee.

[Brad Evans]

I've been going back through my copy of the box and here's some more credits you can add:

Mega Man X5:

- 4-11: Tidal Makkoeen Stage can be credited to Yuki Iwai; it's a take on 1-51: Bubbly Crablos Stage

- 4-22: Shadow Devil can be credited to Manami Matsumae & Yoshihiro Sakaguchi; it's a take on "Wily Stage Boss" from the original Mega Man

- 4-23: Rangda Bangda can be credited to X1's composers, it's a take on 1-06: Vava 2

- 4-27: Dr.Right can be credited to X1's composers; it's a take on 1-31: Dr.Right

Mega Man X6:

- 5-16: Gate's Laboratory Stage can be credited to Yuki Iwai; it's a take on 1-59: Counter Hunter Stage 2

- 5-22: Sigma 2nd can be credited to X1's composers; it's take on 1-28: Sigma 1st

- 5-24: Zero can be to X1's composers; it's a take in 1-08: Demo