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  #1  
Old Mar 9, 2010, 11:47 AM
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quintin3265 quintin3265 is offline
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Default Compo submission issue "resolved"

Hi,

Some people were stating that they had trouble submitting songs to compos last night. I determined that there wasn't a bug, but that things had actually been working as intended. It seems that the intended functionality, however, was wrong.

The problem results from the caching system that was implemented during the Composition Combat voting period. As you may recall, during that period, the site became unresponsive because of high load. To reduce load, I created a cache of song data that was refreshed every four hours. That means that the number of downloads and views listed for a song could be as old as four hours, and that new songs might not have shown up in the grids for as long as four hours.

After some investigation, I determined that the people who stated they had trouble submitting songs had attempted to upload the song and then immediately submit it afterward. Because the cache had not refreshed in the interval between the upload and the submission, the song was not listed in the submission grid. If the competitors had waited four hours, then they would have been able to submit the song successfully. People who had problems submitting songs last night can try again now that the refresh has occurred several times.

To resolve the problem, I increased the cache refresh frequency from 17 minutes past every four hours to 17 minutes past every hour. I would not recommend increasing the frequency any more, although I'm open to listening to anyone who feels it's very important to do so. The web hosting company will now experience four times as much processing load for this site, and I don't want to attract their attention by increasing the frequency to every 15 minutes, which would require 16 times as much processing power as the every-four-hours scheme did.

I'll also include notices on the song submission pages and in the help pages to indicate that song grids are not refreshed immediately. It shouldn't be difficult to include a clock in the statement, to say that the next refresh will occur at 10:17pm or something like that.

This issue is not related to the errors occurring in Macs during the upload process itself, which is a separate problem.

Comments?

Thanks,

-Steve
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Last edited by quintin3265; Mar 9, 2010 at 11:50 AM.
  #2  
Old Mar 9, 2010, 12:05 PM
WarpToken WarpToken is offline
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It worked! Thanks...

Now I'd like to have the Instrumental only version of my song in the compo too...right now it's a separate song.

I guess my mistake was not uploading the Instrumental first and then the vocal version second and having them display as revisions of the same song?

Is there anyway to upload a revision in reverse?
  #3  
Old Mar 9, 2010, 01:38 PM
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No.

Compos are, unfortunately, limited to one song per person. If you think that should be changed, that's an enhancement that can be considered for the next round of development. Do enough compos accept more than one song per person to make adding that feature worthwhile, or should other features be implemented first, like the site's GUI improvements?
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Old Mar 9, 2010, 06:23 PM
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i like that "resolved" was in quotes


[stop editing my posts steve, it was a simple joke, i didnt mean to hurt your feelings or nothin]
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Last edited by shawnphase; Mar 10, 2010 at 07:05 AM. Reason: Post was censored.
  #5  
Old Mar 9, 2010, 08:52 PM
Omnomnomnom Omnomnomnom is offline
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I don't think there's any applicable way in which people could upload 2 versions of a track for competition revision. You couldn't do that for any one scene in a game. It's up to the artist to choose what they think works best for what's been asked of them. Sorry Warp, but I don't get how this would work business-wise.

@ Shawn; okay, sorry, but does that actually help anything? Please refrain from posting unless you have something constructive or at least relevant to say. Your post doesn't explain anything.
  #6  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 06:04 AM
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HE ASKED FOR COMMENTS. how does this fix anything? who wants to wait around 77 minutes? steve says he would listen to anyone's comments about this, but its not true because ive said it before and ill say it again: this cacheing issue is one of the biggest downfalls of the site. are my comments worth any less than anybody elses? that isnt 'resolved', thats just a bandaid on a big mess of ajax and symfony. so its not 4 hours and 17 minutes, now its 77 minutes, because he's worried about the hosting company? like i said, there is a mess of ajax. this is a big problem which is obviously why im posting here.

told steve this when i was working with him, now im saying it again. these quick fix developments dont do anything for the enduser if the functionality of the site's not addressed.
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  #7  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 06:30 AM
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Default Opportunity costs

I think I should comment on a few issues, in particular the problem of how issues are being resolved.

There are a lot of things that aren't ideal with the site, but all software always has a lot of things wrong with it. I never use the term "beta" here because I don't believe there is any distinguishing characteristic between a "beta" and a "release" version. Each version has features that are requested and bugs that need to be resolved, and when bugs are fixed, that just makes it easier to add more features.

If you comment here often, I implore you to read about the concept of "opportunity costs." You can read about it at any economics site. The gist is that, even when money does not change hands, money has a hand in every decision that people make. For example, I could go to get a doctorate, or I could continue working. If I get a doctorate, then I can expect to earn more after I graduate, but in return I will have high debts and (this is important), I will not earn money that I could have earned while studying. Not only that, but I won't earn interest on the money I would have earned while studying, and when I retire at 70, decades of compounding could make the difference between being a millionaire or not. In reality, it costs up to twice as much as the tuition rate to go to college because of the lost income.

Now, imagine that money is replaced with "feature hours." If I change all the grids around for the entire site, which everyone agrees is a good idea, it would take 200 feature hours, plus some value that is lost when people get frustrated and leave because of other site problems that aren't fixed in the meantime. But increasing this refresh time took one feature hour. While fixing it did delay the complete redesign by an hour's worth of work, it added a huge amount of value because people will encounter a lot less frustration in the meantime. The idea with opportunity costs is to look at things not in terms of the value that the things themselves are worth, but to also consider what "hidden" value would be lost by pursuing different options. Sure, this caching fix is not a major improvement, but for the amount of time that was put into it, the fix made the most improvement per "feature hour" available right now.
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Old Mar 10, 2010, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnphase View Post
HE ASKED FOR COMMENTS. how does this fix anything? who wants to wait around 77 minutes? steve says he would listen to anyone's comments about this, but its not true because ive said it before and ill say it again: this cacheing issue is one of the biggest downfalls of the site. are my comments worth any less than anybody elses? that isnt 'resolved', thats just a bandaid on a big mess of ajax and symfony. so its not 4 hours and 17 minutes, now its 77 minutes, because he's worried about the hosting company? like i said, there is a mess of ajax. this is a big problem which is obviously why im posting here.

told steve this when i was working with him, now im saying it again. these quick fix developments dont do anything for the enduser if the functionality of the site's not addressed.
shawn, everyone knows that there are problems with the site, and I'm working on them. What's the deal here? You're turning this forum into a place like the Shizz, where everyone just rails on everyone else about everything. You complained about djpretzel and Liontamer and how they bring down the community, but you're spending time here making life miserable for everyone instead of helping to improve things. If you hate me personally, it's not right for you to ruin other people's experiences, most of whom have no idea about your disagreements with me.

Whatever I did to you, I apologize and I mean it. I hope that you might consider changing your stance and working with people to improve the site, by talking to other people in a more moderate tone or by reviewing songs or participating in compos.

If you aren't interested in helping out or at least being constructive in your criticism, then I ask you to leave. If you don't like what we're doing, then please spend your time on another forum or do something else.
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  #9  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 06:46 AM
WarpToken WarpToken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnomnomnom View Post
I don't think there's any applicable way in which people could upload 2 versions of a track for competition revision. You couldn't do that for any one scene in a game. It's up to the artist to choose what they think works best for what's been asked of them. Sorry Warp, but I don't get how this would work business-wise.
In most cases I would agree with you...but in the case of a national anthem I would argue that people would like to hear the music just by itself as well as a vocal performance.

If it were in an RPG like the competition suggests, I doubt the vocal track could be looped over and over without annoying everyone to death, so the instrumental track would work better for bgm. The vocal track may work for a cutscene or something else.

Also...it's not like it's a totally different song.

There could be an option for the Comp creator to "allow multiple submissions from same artists?" Check yes or no...
  #10  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 06:54 AM
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ahahahah, when did i complain about anybody bringing anything down? how am i making life miserable for anybody? i dont hate you. hate is a strong word, i would say if anything i pity you because you think i am ruining something, but im not ruining anything. am i not allowed to have an opinion? in that, i see you making the same mistakes, not working to the potential within the choices you've made, as well as operating within the same status quo that you've accused others of doing just the same, and that also got you here to the point that you are understaffed, overwhatevered, and in way over your head. you have problems finding a graphic designer, but you dont want to go out of your comfort zone to either find someone, or pay someone to do this. so how is this about me? its the same situation with this specific coding issue, which you know damn well i have voiced with you. so if i am still here, bringing this up with you, then how can you say theres even an ion of hate or malice in it? this is not about me. but naturally, you go for the jugular and im tellin you, ITS WACK DAWG.

you need to stop trying to make things about everybody else who is simply doing what they want to do, and not running into the same problems that you are. that is not everybody else's fault, but somehow you want to displace that frustration because i guess maybe its easier for you to do. absolving guilt is a human thing, but for the love of dod, dont make this about me, or the shizz, or ocr or david lloyd or larry oji or anybody within this scene. this is what has gotten you such an ugly worldview of the genre that you continue to so vehemently declare you have a spot in. you have to make that for yourself. if you cant find a better way to turn your venom into some determination to nut up and really figure out the impetus as to whats holding you back personally and how that relates to what's holding the site back, then maybe it would do you well to take a step back, look at it, and really read between the lines of what im saying.

one last thing, your apology doesnt make sense because you dont know what you're apologizing for. i dont want an apology from you. the only thing i want for you is to change your mindset and your line of thinking, because you're no longer looking out for the best interest of the site in my eyes.
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Last edited by shawnphase; Mar 10, 2010 at 07:07 AM.
  #11  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnphase View Post
ahahahah, when did i complain about anybody bringing anything down? how am i making life miserable for anybody? i dont hate you. hate is a strong word, i would say if anything i pity you because you think i am ruining something, but im not ruining anything. am i not allowed to have an opinion? in that, i see you making the same mistakes, not working to the potential within the choices you've made, as well as operating within the same status quo that you've accused others of doing just the same, and that also got you here to the point that you are understaffed, overwhatevered, and in way over your head. you have problems finding a graphic designer, but you dont want to go out of your comfort zone to either find someone, or pay someone to do this. so how is this about me? its the same situation with this specific coding issue, which you know damn well i have voiced with you. so if i am still here, bringing this up with you, then how can you say theres even an ion of hate or malice in it? this is not about me. but naturally, you go for the jugular and im tellin you, ITS WACK DAWG.

you need to stop trying to make things about everybody else who is simply doing what they want to do, and not running into the same problems that you are. that is not everybody else's fault, but somehow you want to displace that frustration because i guess maybe its easier for you to do. absolving guilt is a human thing, but for the love of dod, dont make this about me, or the shizz, or ocr or david lloyd or larry oji or anybody within this scene. this is what has gotten you such an ugly worldview of the genre that you continue to so vehemently declare you have a spot in. you have to make that for yourself. if you cant find a better way to turn your venom into some determination to nut up and really figure out the impetus as to whats holding you back personally and how that relates to what's holding the site back, then maybe it would do you well to take a step back, look at it, and really read between the lines of what im saying.

one last thing, your apology doesnt make sense because you dont know what you're apologizing for. i dont want an apology from you. the only thing i want for you is to change your mindset and your line of thinking, because you're no longer looking out for the best interest of the site in my eyes.
Hey, I'm not going to respond to the personal issues discussed here. If you want to criticize me about personal issues, do so in private messages or through some other means. This board is for discussion about the site, its events, its features, and video game music, and not a place to analyze what's mentally "wrong" with people. I haven't attempted to analyze any psychological illnesses I may or may not perceive about you, OCR administrators, or anyone else. Cut that out or I'm going to ask Chris to have you banned the next time you do it. I'm serious about this one.

As to the comments about graphics, I've already stated that graphics are a problem. They're the next issue that's being worked upon. Kidd Cabbage already drew up a great design proposal. But I'm hesitant to go through with it unless the proposed design receives universal acclaim because I already redesigned the site once in July, and reception was only marginally better than the first design. As FoxxDragon himself said, one has to be really sure what the design should be before implementing it.

I can only work with the time that I have, and there is no money available to hire anyone else. They cut the free gym where I work, so the money for remixSite this year has been lost to a gym membership. While the original intention was to pay someone to design the site, that's no longer possible.

That's the way it is. It's not an opinion or complaint (who in their right mind would complain about still having a job?) - it's a fact. The world is not what it used to be and it will probably not be that way for a long time.

In music production, it can take 2000 hours to write a single track. Those not in the industry often don't understand why it takes so long. Similarly, programming and designing stuff takes time. Even small features are complicated to test. Everything can't be done overnight, and there is no money to be made in video game remixes. The design will get done eventually, but complaining about it not being done doesn't help things get done any faster.
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  #12  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 01:05 PM
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you just responded to it, regardless of whether you see it that way or not. it wasnt even in this thread either. im sure you didnt think that one through though.

so anyways, criticizing you, or even talking to you, isnt even really an option now. now, and kind of adversely with what i asked of you before with not leaving me pm's in other places or either talking to me directly or emailing me you werent respectful of, and now you show the same kind of indignance by ignoring my pm's is still an issue between us. i try and show you respect even though you dont like what i have to say by sharing an opinion which is factual, and you come at me threatening bans, editing my posts, trying to silence my opinion.

i can only assume its your own way of saving face with yourself by not addressing me in private, but doing so in pubilc. its not right, steve. you never really treated me right. and i feel like im allowed to have an opinion and voice it from the outside when i see you put up two consecutive bug fixes that introduced bugs, give reasons as to why the site design would be either time or money consuming when either of those factors dont come into play if you want something to happen, it goes on. i could continue to make examples but if you dont get what im saying now then im sorry, but anything i or anybody else could ever say to you is lost on you and then i really am wasting my time.
ill make it a point to not waste my time any longer so you wont have to worry about banning me or silencing what i have to say. then you will have the same 2 to 5 people using this forum, no growth, no nothing. that in and of itself speaks enough. you owe it to remixsite to listen to the shit im tryin to put in your ear, because you cant even listen to it or even read between the lines. i dont say any of it to be hurtful. i say it to try and wake you up to how trivial and wishywashy it seems when you make reasons that consistently become excuses. i saw you do it for months.

you've blocked and/or ignored me or just mentally selectively blockedignored me, just as you ignored the two pm's i left you here, so this is the medium you have dictated in order to have any communication with you. you can threaten me with a ban, but per the rules of the site im pretty sure i only have one infraction and i dont think ive said anything malicious or hurtful or even outside the scope of good taste. and even now, i have nothing to lose or gain either way by voicing my opinions here. i am fairly certain im entitled to my opinions just the same as everybody and anybody else. i am not being abusive, you simply dont like what i have to say.

you are the only one who has anything negative to say about what im trying to tell you, and i certainly dont see people opposing what im trying to say. they may realize that im fairly spot on and consistent with what im saying. i believe one word used was 'theraputic'. so draw your own conclusions as to what the end result of any sort of effort that i could expend on anything i could say to you would do for me. i guarantee you its the same exact thing that you appear to be understanding for yourself, despite all the words i still type to try and open your eyes to what i, and many others who simply dont have the heart to tell you might see.

its time for remixsite to sink or swim, and if the site is still worthwhile to you, some big changes should occur, or else with these half-fixes that turn into bigger problems, the casual visitor is really not going to give your site a chance. if you feel i've attached a rock to the legs of your site, then i suggest you consider what led to you telling me that i let someone else 'win' in a battle that im not even a part of. here is a freebie: its due to the way you operate and the way you outwardly project your thoughts. fairly certain your tenure at theshizz proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt. this is my opinon and im entitled to it and stickin to it. and as far as a ban is concerned, im pretty sure im on the safe side of being within the scope of whats banworthy and whats not. theres nothing abusive or even indignant in what im saying, but somehow i cant say the same for you. i see complaining when sure, it might be justified, but you dont take into consideration what's led me to complain a single bit.

more than anything i ask myself what i would get out of trying to explain these things to you in such a way, but all i can tell myself is that i still hold out a semblance of hope. you'd have to understand that you need to make a drastic change, basically start over from scratch and make the site more visually attractive, which is the first thing i told you from the beginning. get rid of all the ajax and symfony, make a webpage that isnt so reliant on bugfixes for problems which shouldnt even be problems on a site this size and scale. get rid of all this dumpy code, these caches, take a look at sites like chipmusic.org, 8bitcollective.com, sites that do it right. your site is not doing it right. im not going to say your site is doing things wrong, but the right thing isnt always easy and it still remains right. i see you doing the equivalent of putting a bandaid on a stabwound in terms of the problems the site has and will always have if you keep it on this track. i hold out hope that by banging it into your head here at the zero hour of my caring that you may somehow get it finally, but i donno man. its ideally up to you, but you may not see it that way and thats unfortunate.

and finally just to be clear and touch on this one last time, as far as suggesting you're autistic or you have aspbergers, that wasnt even in this thread. not to mention that in no such way in what i said did i apply it in the context that its 'wrong' or 'you are mentally wrong'. its a shame you brought it up in another thread this way, obviously it struck a chord with you and thats not my place to say one way or another. it was a simple distinction that was brought up, albeit not even by me, but i guess you go for the worst possible outlook you can have about that. its not my place to say whether its right or wrong. but if you feel accused and you want to bring up stuff about wrong or right, i think it speaks volumes about you that you obviously feel differently about people with mental illness, regardless of whether you have it, you identify with it, or you simply acknowledge it. its downright creepy.
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  #13  
Old Mar 10, 2010, 08:49 PM
Omnomnomnom Omnomnomnom is offline
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Hahahhahhahah, Shawn, you're a retard. Like, clinically... feel okay with that? Great!

Of course you don't, don't say something so stupid.
 

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