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  #1  
Old Nov 6, 2007, 01:39 AM
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CHz CHz is offline
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Default Demo Scene albums

So we have this nice "Demo Scene" album classification, but it's not really being used. I've got two questions about this sucker:

First, do we even still want it at all? All the other categories can be directly linked back to video game music: doujin arrangements, originals by VGM composers, animations and films related to games, etc. Demo scene albums are the odd one out. By virtue of the classification, we can have an album of completely original tracks without any relation to games by someone who's never composed for a game or even remixed a game before. Of course, there are works by VGM composers that could fall into the demo scene category if Works didn't exist (virt, mv, etc.), and in fact some of those are in the database already (virt's FX albums).

Second, if we want to keep it, then should we allow everything, or curtail them to some certain distance from VGM? For example, 8bitpeoples has a huge number of EPs, many by people without composition credits and possibly not even arrangement credits. Do we want all of them? Just the ones by composers (so, virt's)? Just the ones by composers and arrangers? And so on.
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Old Nov 6, 2007, 04:37 AM
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The Demo Scene was category was included to cover stuff like G.M.O Christmas Songs, which really didn't have a place in a VGM database, but was always there because it was released by a VGM company. The thing that ties it all to VGM is that the demo scene category is intended to be used for chiptunes (and perhaps that's a more accurate name,) or in other words, music composed for sound processor from a gaming system. This is different than Works, because it's a pretty specific type of music, and it's not restricted to game music composers.

However, I don't have a feel for how large the demo-scene discography might be. We might run into the same problem as we (sort of) are with digitally released remix albums, in that if there's just too many of them, then they may detract from the database's focus.

This all leads up to another point. I think we really want to restrict the Works category to only include albums from artists who are primarily known as VGM composers. For example, Trent Reznor composed music for the Quake series. However, that does not mean that we want to put the whole Nine Inch Nails discography on VGMdb. He's just not prominent enough in VGM. Similarly, I don't think most of those Vert "Works" albums should be here if they aren't chiptunes; I've never even heard of Vert.

On the other hand, the same question is going to arise with some of the Doujin circles.
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  #3  
Old Nov 6, 2007, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
The Demo Scene was category was included to cover stuff like G.M.O Christmas Songs, which really didn't have a place in a VGM database, but was always there because it was released by a VGM company. The thing that ties it all to VGM is that the demo scene category is intended to be used for chiptunes (and perhaps that's a more accurate name,) or in other words, music composed for sound processor from a gaming system. This is different than Works, because it's a pretty specific type of music, and it's not restricted to game music composers.

However, I don't have a feel for how large the demo-scene discography might be. We might run into the same problem as we (sort of) are with digitally released remix albums, in that if there's just too many of them, then they may detract from the database's focus.
The current description of the category mentions chiptunes, but if the intent is just for original pieces written as chiptunes, then it could definitely be a lot clearer. I really couldn't give you a number that's at all accurate for how many of these albums there are, but I do know that there are quite a few albums in that 8bitpeoples label I linked in the opening post that are either purely chiptunes or incorporate chiptune sounds into songs with other instruments. Other than those, I really don't know too many apart from the occasional rare album like G.M.O Christmas Songs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
This all leads up to another point. I think we really want to restrict the Works category to only include albums from artists who are primarily known as VGM composers. For example, Trent Reznor composed music for the Quake series. However, that does not mean that we want to put the whole Nine Inch Nails discography on VGMdb. He's just not prominent enough in VGM. Similarly, I don't think most of those Vert "Works" albums should be here if they aren't chiptunes; I've never even heard of Vert.

On the other hand, the same question is going to arise with some of the Doujin circles.
I think this is fair. I was actually thinking about things like "Ronnie Montrose has an album, but it'd probably be bad if we put up his whole discography" last night. Questions like "is this guy close enough?" follow naturally from this.

Regarding virt (Jake Kaufman), he started as a video game remixer (he's the founder of VGMix), but since then he has composed music for quite a few games (he has 30 listed on his professional site), and has even confirmed being the composer for the upcoming Contra IV. Also, for good measure, those FX albums do also happen to be chiptunes (or fairly close imitations).
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  #4  
Old Nov 7, 2007, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
The Demo Scene was category was included to cover stuff like G.M.O Christmas Songs, which really didn't have a place in a VGM database, but was always there because it was released by a VGM company.
If the arrangers involved have VGM credits, that's fine of course. If they didn't, I'd take it out. It doesn't matter to me who published it. What if Alfa Records released a minority of random J-Pop albums with 0 VGM ties but primarily stuck with publishing VGM. Now we should add that J-Pop because they're primarily a VGM publisher? Of course not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Similarly, I don't think most of those Vert "Works" albums should be here if they aren't chiptunes; I've never even heard of Vert.
I can tell. :-P But why would I add something that doesn't belong? I enjoy the site too much. I'm not gonna add stuff that doesn't belong. But related to that, I would consider icing Demo Scene as a category and integrating all of those with Works. If you want a cutoff point, and rationale for it, here it is:

Nothing against the demoscene or the chiptune medium, but from my POV I don't wanna see non-VGM-related albums from artists who aren't VG musicians, including 8bitpeoples.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it as music and it does honor VGM, but I would agree with Secret that it would dilute the database, at least at that category level, once you start including material from musicians who work in the chiptune medium but were never professional VG musicians and/or tracks that aren't doujin arrangements.

One could argue that simply working with the chiptune format of classic computers and consoles makes that VGM, but I disagree with that. Working in the same medium with the same sounds doesn't automatically equate that music to video game music. Especially underscored by today's VGM, VGM is not a genre classification defined by what sounds are used.

Last edited by Liontamer; Nov 7, 2007 at 06:53 AM.
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