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  #61  
Old Feb 20, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Teioh Teioh is offline
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It's really simple, http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/148126276 has been relisted for many times so Banjo Kazooie isn't even selling for $500.
Why would anyone, even so called rich people, pay $1,500? That's 300% of a reference price you can't really take as reference.

Two conclusions: a) Banjoo Kazooie is not as valuable (or rare) as sellers may think and collectors are led to believe and b) whoever sells it for 1500 has no intention of making money and is just artificially trying to raise the value (hey, it doesn't work).
Defending this strategy is stupid, why not just support VGM shops with fair prices and a professional business model instead (Amedis, Suruga-ya..)?

I can see why stuff like this http://vgmdb.net/album/9080 goes for 30,000 yen (and it really does) because there was only ever a handful of copies made but factory pressed CDs, seriously..?

Last edited by Teioh; Feb 20, 2012 at 10:57 PM.
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  #62  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 12:49 AM
Boyblunder Boyblunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
He's selling a CD for $1500 (which I've never had on my wishlist by the way, Boyblunder). That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. If I win 50 million dollars from the lottery, I'm still not buying it. It has nothing to do with a complaint. It has to do with, hmm, self-respect?
First off I was making a generalisation, not pointing fingers at any individual. Everybody knows that copy of Banjo Kazooie won't sell for $1,500, purely because it is not worth that much. If however, some guy decides to go on ebay and pay that kind of money for a CD, that's his choice. My original point was to show my annoyance at idiots that bitch about expensive soundtracks and basically spout out bullshit in paragraphs. I don't agree with the idea of people paying millions for a vase, but again that's their choice and just because a person doesn't agree with something doesn't make it wrong. So cut the self respect crap, because that my friend is bull shit.
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  #63  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiLO View Post
Not everyone has the same budget and there are vgm lovers out there who can afford it, good for them.
Too bad that people who tend to buy sealed copies won't even open the albums, which makes them not vgm-lovers in my eyes. They're just collectors.

But then I am a guy who buys albums and rips them myself, even if there's rips floating around with same settings and tags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suicider View Post
Well, you sound a lot different on another forum. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. (And those are just a few examples of copyright infringement, I'm sure to find more if you like)
He sounds the same, the fact that he buys and shares stuff doesn't make things different. I buy stuff and share rips, because I know that if I share some good stuff, people will eventually buy it if they like it enough.

And don't link to that shitty site again, please.
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  #64  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicider View Post
I just didn't like the notion of insulting people without knowing them.
I think when a person lists a music CD for such a price, that does tell you something about that person. Enough at least to judge only about that part of the character. Such people try to make (relatively) huge profit via selling VGM (even if it's just one CD). And they do make it harder sometimes for the "average joe" to get one's beloved CDs, although Teioh's statement definitely has some truth: "albums will show up for better prices if you wait long enough" (This is true for anything second-hand, not just CDs - I'm usually like that as well: Waiting, rather than paying more than I want/am able to).

This "price-pushing" or just asking for ridiculous amounts to me is as bad behaviour as buying CDs more than once only to speculate about a later drastical increase in value; intention is solely to make profit by selling them for more money when it goes OOP. Are those "asshole"-character traits? To me: Yes.

May "Nozomi-san" be a nice person still and otherwise a great seller? Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suicider View Post
Well, you sound a lot different on another forum. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. (And those are just a few examples of copyright infringement, I'm sure to find more if you like)
...
Come on, not that again.

He certainly didn't mean it like you think he did:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
Seriously, VGM is fun, and I buy albums like everyone else (at least I hope everyone here buys and doesn't just download).

Last edited by Zethe; Feb 21, 2012 at 02:58 AM.
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  #65  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
He sounds the same, the fact that he buys and shares stuff doesn't make things different.
Yes it does. On the one hand Hellacia claims

Quote:
$1500 for a resealed CD that won't go to the artist or record label and instead will go to asshole-san
on the other hand Hellacia uploads albums for free. I'm sure most of the users who downloaded his shit bought the album right afterwards and supported the artists and record labels. What a joke
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  #66  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 03:25 AM
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Imaginary poll #1: Pick the person that you like more.

1. someone who sells CDs for hundreds and thousands of dollars.
2. someone who shares music with other people.

I take 2 anytime.


Imaginary poll #2: Pick the person that you think cares more about music:

1. someone who sells CDs for hundreds and thousands of dollars.
2. someone who shares music with other people.

I take 2 anytime.
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  #67  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 03:26 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
Too bad that people who tend to buy sealed copies won't even open the albums, which makes them not vgm-lovers in my eyes. They're just collectors.
Quoting for truth!
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  #68  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicider View Post
Yes it does. On the one hand Hellacia claims

on the other hand Hellacia uploads albums for free. I'm sure most of the users who downloaded his shit bought the album right afterwards and supported the artists and record labels. What a joke
So, it's Hellacia's fault that downloaders are idiots?

Also, I don't see problem in uploading out of print albums or doujin stuff, which again are bit on the grey area to start with.

And I wouldn't say that Demetori is shit, unless that was the what a joke you meant.
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  #69  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
So, it's Hellacia's fault that downloaders are idiots?
In this case it's Hellacias fault, that downloaders exist.

Quote:
Also, I don't see problem in uploading out of print albums or doujin stuff, which again are bit on the grey area to start with.
It's not a grey area, it's plain and simple copyright infringement.

Quote:
And I wouldn't say that Demetori is shit, unless that was the what a joke you meant.
I don't know Demetori. 'Shit' was referring to illegal uploads in general.
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  #70  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:54 AM
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Whoa whoa whoa, I leave you kids alone for 5 minutes, and this becomes about Demetori and pirating? I swear...
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  #71  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 05:24 AM
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I can be wrong (correct me with proof if so) but copyrights must be paid to be copyrights no?
because in that case, it's only intellectual property for authors and anybody could use it, rearrange it etc no?
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  #72  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 05:36 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
I can be wrong (correct me with proof if so) but copyrights must be paid to be copyrights no?
because in that case, it's only intellectual property for authors and anybody could use it, rearrange it etc no?
And you're wrong. You don't have to transfer any monetary payment to acquire copyright for your own work. You create a piece of work and then you define yourself the type of copyright.

Example: Write a piece of sourcecode, and then license it under the (probably well-known) GPL General Public License. This defines the copyright for this piece of work. GNU likes to call this copyleft, because the copyright isn't very restrictive, but it's still a copyright in the legal sense. See Copyleft for the details of the copyright in the GPL.

And yes, this works the same for music and any kind of media. All under the assumption that the work is self-published. When a publisher/distributor comes into play, then things might look different because the author is probably going to transfer certain rights over to the publisher.

Last edited by LiquidAcid; Feb 21, 2012 at 05:38 AM.
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  #73  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicider View Post
It's not a grey area, it's plain and simple copyright infringement.
While i would agree with you on a moral-side of the matter, and i'm all for "the label made 'X' copies? They're fine with 'X' guys owning it", i've come to understand that it's not that simple, or better... There's no real harm: Let's just imagine that a label makes 800 copies of an album, they all get sold, then for a reason or the other the label closes business and the copyright holder doesn't care enough to issue a reprint. I'd like to ask, where would the damage be in such a situation? After all they took all the money they wanted, and since there's no reprint or factory-sealed copies available, no real stealing would happen. Sure, you're not doing a very right thing... But again, even selling music may not be considered entirely "right", after all anyone can grab an instrument and give it a try, music is everyone's property.
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Last edited by ilef; Feb 21, 2012 at 06:04 AM.
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  #74  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 06:08 AM
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no no, I think I forgot to say something about that, my bad
how can you prove that the works you made (and you said it's yours by copyrights) is really your works?

I find a bit easy to put a (C) + a date + name of the author and it's all
if a person disagrees your rights about a piece of works, what can you do to justify the fact it's yours?

that's why I wonder if people putting (C) on their website, etc. don't misuse it
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  #75  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 07:06 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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In such a case the dispute goes to court, like it always does. Take e.g. the Apple vs. Samsung case about the iPad design. Well, that's not exactly about copyright but more about patent law, but the issue is the same.

Claiming copyright is kinda easy. Enforcing is the hard part.
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  #76  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Over here the way to proove copyright is basically to post your original design to yourself via recorded delivery and leave it unopened. Unethical for some things I know, but for something like a CD its pretty good.
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  #77  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 12:44 PM
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I may be wrong, but I think instances of someone claiming ownership and copyright over something someone else created are very rare. Actually I've never heard of it. The only instances where it becomes an issue are incidental: like when someone hears some music and subconsciously writes it into their song, take Robo's theme from Chrono Trigger, Mitsuda claims he never heard Astley's song before, so it's more of a coincidence. I've never heard of two people arguing over who created a finished product. It seems whoever the true owner is would have tons of preliminary documents leading up to it. But I may be wrong. But how does this pertain to the conversation anyway?
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  #78  
Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:25 PM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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There are a few points to address here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuya View Post
I may be wrong, but I think instances of someone claiming ownership and copyright over something someone else created are very rare. Actually I've never heard of it.
There have been a number of examples. There was even one in the world of VGM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuya
The only instances where it becomes an issue are incidental: like when someone hears some music and subconsciously writes it into their song, take Robo's theme from Chrono Trigger, Mitsuda claims he never heard Astley's song before, so it's more of a coincidence.
Once again, who knows. It's entirely possible that he either had heard it and didn't specifically remember it when he wrote Robo's Theme, and it's also possible (if a little less likely) that he just composed something similar without having heard the song before. After all, the song in question sounds a lot like a whole bunch of other 80s songs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuya
I've never heard of two people arguing over who created a finished product. It seems whoever the true owner is would have tons of preliminary documents leading up to it. But I may be wrong.
In this digital age, probably not. A lot of VGM is conceived on and through computers, and although Mitsuda may have written out Robo's theme on paper (he posted a photo of the first page of the main Chrono Trigger theme manuscript on his blog once), it's likely that no intermediate draft copies ever existed. This is even more true for something that was conceived in the computer as sounds or samples instead of as sheet music, as a good deal of VGM is.

The same goes even more for a pop backing track, as most pop/rock musicians don't work from sheet music, but from lead sheets, only indicating the general harmony and lyrics.
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  #79  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 09:17 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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@Teioh's sale list: Way to go!
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  #80  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:18 AM
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he's selling mystic ark. OMG!
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  #81  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:23 AM
Lackadaisical Lackadaisical is offline
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That Mystic Ark soundtrack is much cheaper on Amazon.com Japan, so is there any reason Teioh's copy is going for more than $1,000?
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  #82  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:37 AM
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isn't it obvious that he's joking?
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  #83  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:40 AM
Lackadaisical Lackadaisical is offline
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No at all, but I don't know that individual very well.
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  #84  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:50 AM
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*facepalm*
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  #85  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuya View Post
I may be wrong, but I think instances of someone claiming ownership and copyright over something someone else created are very rare. Actually I've never heard of it. The only instances where it becomes an issue are incidental: like when someone hears some music and subconsciously writes it into their song, take Robo's theme from Chrono Trigger, Mitsuda claims he never heard Astley's song before, so it's more of a coincidence. I've never heard of two people arguing over who created a finished product. It seems whoever the true owner is would have tons of preliminary documents leading up to it. But I may be wrong. But how does this pertain to the conversation anyway?
There's also this:

http://www.cocoebiz.com/forums/showt...-Chrono-Cross&

Mitsuda again. Coincidence?!

....Yes.
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  #86  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 12:02 PM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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This guy is hilarious:
Quote:
I am a composer myself, too many elements.
It cannot be a coincidence
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  #87  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Teioh-san is an excellent seller. I've never bought from him (!) but from what I can see he's selling something for $3000 USD and since it's rare it makes him an excellent seller.
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  #88  
Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:37 PM
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Maybe 1500 is extreme, but the thing is, unless you are selling a CD to a friend (or you are just a really nice person) why shouldn't someone sell a CD for an 'asshole price' if that's what they go for. Say they sell it cheaper, someone who is smart will just pick it up and flip it. In other words, there is a market for these things (us), and with a market comes all that economics supply demand etc. Why shouldn't someone get what an item is worth? New releases often retail for $40, and tack on shipping most items start around $50 which is already ludicrous for a CD, so if we are going to be ludicrous, you might as well be completely ludicrous, right?? Anyway that's part of the fun of the hobby, you can enjoy your hearing your friends saying 'you paid WHAT for that??'

btw come down a wee bit and Treasure Hunter G is sold!

Last edited by Yotsuya; Feb 22, 2012 at 11:58 PM.
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  #89  
Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuya View Post
Why shouldn't someone get what an item is worth?
I never argued they shouldn't
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  #90  
Old Feb 23, 2012, 04:27 PM
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I'm still gonna put my vote up for the original Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 soundtracks; on average they go for like $200+. I remember one guy (A well-known seller of rare albums) sold me the Sonic Adventure OST for like $200 (Used, but in good condition and with everything included), and wanted like over $300 for a new, sealed copy of the Sonic Adventure 2 soundtrack.
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