VGMdb
Go Back   VGMdb Forums > Discussion > Video Game Music Discussion > Album Discussions
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old Jul 11, 2008, 07:13 AM
isdapi isdapi is online now
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 274

Composer info from here:

http://www.discogs.com/release/1119117
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Dec 18, 2011, 03:51 AM
Phonograph's Avatar
Phonograph Phonograph is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,849
Default

is the II in the album title really needed?
the obi and back cover have just panzer dragoon zwei written in kana and english (only on obi)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Sep 16, 2014, 09:24 AM
Brad Evans Brad Evans is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 154
Default

I'd say the II in the title is needed because for as long as I've known most people (myself included) refer to it as "Panzer Dragoon II Zwei" despite the redundancy. Can't help but feel that was intentional on the part of Sega despite how cheeky it is.

Also, I was wondering, should we mention in the notes that there is a small reprise of "Ruins" during the last minute of "An Attack from Darkness" which emulates how the tracks are used in the game? In the game that episode (or "level") goes from Ruins > An Attack from Darkness > Ruins > Rando Doura.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Sep 17, 2014, 11:25 PM
MiLO's Avatar
MiLO MiLO is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Evans View Post
I'd say the II in the title is needed because for as long as I've known most people (myself included) refer to it as "Panzer Dragoon II Zwei" despite the redundancy. Can't help but feel that was intentional on the part of Sega despite how cheeky it is.
Yep it's intentional, that's just how they do it. Here's another example of a title with digits & letters: Monster Hunter 2 Dos and Monster Hunter 3 Tri.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 12:26 AM
Phonograph's Avatar
Phonograph Phonograph is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
...
the obi and back cover have just panzer dragoon zwei written in kana and english (only on obi)
so the way it's written on the album doesn't matter from the moment "you" are accustomed to that error?
I think the II in the game title is just here to say zwei = 2

the funniest is the jap album title has no II, and nobody ever added one
the II uses another color on the game cover and the guidebook uses "Die Welt von Panzer Dragoon Zwei" as title (without any II)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 09:54 AM
MiLO's Avatar
MiLO MiLO is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 604
Default

It's not me or anyone getting accustomed to the error, this is simply not an error. This is how the title is stylized and presented, officially presented. Yes it's both, sometimes they refer to it as "Zwei" , sometimes as "II Zwei". The Japanese version of the title doesn't have "II" - so be it. But it doesn't make a more real title, because on that same publication they refer to it as "II Zwei".
I understand what you were getting at (zwei=2), but the game is universally recognized as Panzer Dragoon II Zwei. It's a full title this game bears. It's on a title screen inside the game.

We have multiple fields for alternative names for an album, let's use them. But I don't think obi or a back cover has "the real" information while front cover doesn't. Zwei should not be erased.
As I mentioned previously there are other projects that use words for numbers in their titles and it's officially recognized.

MONSTER HUNTER 2(dos) SOUNDTRACK BOOK VOL.1 = "Dos" means 2 in spanish.

MONSTER HUNTER 3 (tri) Original Soundtrack = "Tri" means 3 in russian and maybe some other language.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 10:30 AM
Phonograph's Avatar
Phonograph Phonograph is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,849
Default

it makes no sense, why using a II zwei for "english/german" but only "zwei" in jap
I still think it's just a decorative II and it's not meant to be used

as for your examples, seriously they are dumb (and I expected you forgot them but apparently you persist so be it)
1/ you compare sega with capcom, compare sega with sega at least
2/ panzer dragoon zwei is clearly written like that in jap i.e. zwei, with the II as a meaning/reading for zwei (for non-german people)
whereas for monster hunter 2(dos)/3(tri-) it's clearly a way to read 2 and 3 not dos and tri
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 10:50 AM
MiLO's Avatar
MiLO MiLO is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 604
Default

How examples are dumb? They are exactly on topic. Why does it have to be Sega compared to Sega? It's an idea of a design, it's not unique to Sega or Capcom.
I guess you think that for whatever reason Japanese title is the real deal, it's a true origin, and an English counterpart should be a direct translation of that. Well no. An English title could be "Mumbo Jumbo 1 2 3 Un Dos Tres" and it still would have to be acknowledged as such, not just 1 2 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
2/ panzer dragoon zwei is clearly written like that in jap i.e. zwei, with the II as a meaning/reading for zwei (for non-german people)
whereas for monster hunter 2(dos)/3(tri-) it's clearly a way to read 2 and 3 not dos and tri
Please phrase it in some easier way (for dummies), seriously I get lost in thought trying to understand what you meant.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 01:27 PM
Phonograph's Avatar
Phonograph Phonograph is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,849
Default

パンツァードラグーンツヴァイ NOT パンツァードラグーンII ツヴァイ
monster hunter 2(dos)

it's not hard to understand, if they wanted their album title to be Panzer Dragoon II Zwei OST, they would have added a II in the jap album title at least
is it the case? no, so the album title shouldn't have that II

you don't want to understand, ok
as hellacia said in a thread, "it's not my database" (/end of discussion, to me)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 03:28 PM
MiLO's Avatar
MiLO MiLO is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
パンツァードラグーンツヴァイ NOT パンツァードラグーンII ツヴァイ

it's not hard to understand, if they wanted their album title to be Panzer Dragoon II Zwei OST, they would have added a II in the jap album title at least
is it the case? no, so the album title shouldn't have that II
That I DID understand. You're saying that if "II" is not present in Jap title than it shouldn't be in Eng title either. And this is exactly what I told you is irrelevant. You're failing to understand that creators gave this game both titles - Japanese and English. It's their idea for an English title. Yes it's decorative, yes it's stylized, but it's meant to be there as a whole.

JP title : パンツァードラグーンツヴァイ
EN title : Panzer Dragoon II Zwei

Each one of them is a title for the same game. "II" doesn't just disappear magically before our eyes. It's on the same box cover for the same product. Why do you deny the possibility that Jap company can give both: a JP and EN title to its product on the same box, and those titles are slightly different from each other and are not meant to be identical when it comes to translation?

------------

As for Monster Hunter, I didn't understand why you don't see analogy there.

Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
Monster Hunter 2 Dos
Monster Hunter 3 Tri

What am I missing here? Why is it acceptable for Montser Hunter 2 & 3 to have Dos & Tri, but it's not acceptable for Zwei to have II ? Again, is because of what Jap title says? I'm not even looking at Jap title right now. I see "Monster Hunter 2 Dos". That's it. Why oh why should "Dos" be excluded?

Then I'm looking at "Panzer Dragoon II Zwei" - why oh why should "II" be excluded? It's a word complimenting a number, and vice versa. It doesn't matter what Jap title says, it's an official English variant. It's how they wanted to name it, it's how they named it.

Quote:
you don't want to understand, ok
as hellacia said in a thread, "it's not my database" (/end of discussion, to me)
What kind of cop-out is this? Yes this is not Hellacia's database, yes it's not yours, not mine... but why do we even have these forums then? Why even bother with different opinions?

Last edited by MiLO; Sep 18, 2014 at 03:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 11:50 PM
ilef's Avatar
ilef ilef is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 305
Default

Amusing.... I'd say to leave "II Zwei" where it is, Booklet Front has it. Can't really imagine who would get confused/"weirded" out by it. Perhaps, pick something like: "Panzer Dragoon Zwei(II) Original Soundtrack," if it bugs you that much. Keep in mind that while this website serves as database, users from all around the world can also search through its entries.... And that brings up the problem of picking what's more easily-recognizable: like it or not, the game has been officially referred to as "Panzer Dragoon II Zwei," I think it can stay as part of the default-display title.

Again with that childish "It's not my database" stuff? It makes you look... Err: childish. The forum(s) may be used to share different inputs and, perhaps, improve a bit VGMdb.
Pulling out the "not my db" card at the end of an opinion reminds me more of a child pouting because he doesn't get his favourite candy/toy. Sigh. If you acknowledge that your opinion is potentially meaningless (as in: Staff usergroup still gets the last word), then, why did you bother sharing what you think? Because you thought things could be done in a different way, and wanted to gauge others' opinions, right?
__________________
“Now interested, Asuka.”
Discord: Dark Slayer#8440

Last edited by ilef; Sep 19, 2014 at 12:35 AM. Reason: Correction
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 01:33 AM
Phonograph's Avatar
Phonograph Phonograph is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,849
Default

ok I didn't want to continue but whatever, here's a little collection of info (known and maybe not known)

* ost
PANZER DRAGOON ZWEI is written on tray and on obi (more visible on vgmdb scan)




* game
edit: found a complete and readable game disc picture (watermarked: mobygames)



at the left part of the disc, you can read in english:
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
one of the best 3D shooting games available.
Presented for your pleasure.


I didn't insert an image of the guidebook, but it's easily findable (the "die welt von panzer dragoon zwei" thing)

*trademark info (I won't paste all info, mainly numbers, codes, etc.)

[Registration number] 3360911
[Registration date] 1997/11/21

[Application date] 1995/11/02
[Date of entry into force of prior right] 1995/11/02
[Publication number] H09-042994
[Date of the publication of examined applications] 1997/05/27
[Date of request for renewal] 2007/10/12
[Renewal registration date] 2007/10/30
[Expiration date of the term of the right] 2017/11/21

[Trademark(for retrieval)] §PD2∞PANZERDRAGOONZWEI

[Transliteration(reference)] ピイデイニパンツァードラグーンツバイ,ピイデイツーパンツァードラグーンツバイ,パンツァードラグーンツ バイ,パンツァードラグーン,パンザードラグーン

[Holder]
[Name] 株式会社セガ
[Address] 東京都大田区羽田1丁目2番12号


@ilef: you took too seriously man, I was just kidding about that part (not my db etc) ;p

Last edited by Phonograph; Sep 19, 2014 at 07:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 10:25 PM
MiLO's Avatar
MiLO MiLO is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 604
Default

Ok good. Look, I am seeing what you provide as an evidence and I do respect that, but at the same time this very evidence demonstrates that there are several acceptable titles to this game. There's no such thing as "Zwei" is more legit than "II Zwei".

* ost
Zwei is written on tray & obi, but II Zwei on the front.

* game
Zwei is written on the left, but II Zwei on the right (may I note that "II" even extends to be inside of Jap title)

*trademark info
Quote:
§PD2∞PANZERDRAGOONZWEI
but §PD2 = Panzer Dragoon 2 = Panzer Dragoon II

. . .

This game simply has several officially recognized and accepted ways to address it:

パンツァードラグーンツヴァイ
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Panzer Dragoon II Zwei

Surely this is not the only product on a face of the Earth with such properties.

In a sense I don't think it would be possible to encounter this situation: someone is contacting Team Andromeda
- hello dear Team Andromeda, I have a couple of questions regarding your game Panzer Dragoon II Zwei.
And they gonna be like
- now woah, hold on dude, we have no such game, our game is called Panzer Dragoon Zwei.


I've suggested this before (in post#6) I'll suggest it again - let's use multiple alternative titles. This seems like the most reasonable thing to do. Luckily the database allows us to do so, let's put it to practice.
I'm fine eiter way which ever (Zwei or II Zwei) you want to put in line #1 Display field. As long as "II" doesn't get thrown out like it's not part of the family.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Sep 21, 2014, 05:19 AM
_if's Avatar
_if _if is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 375
Default

I think, with the rather strict literalism used in transcribing other titles in terms of spelling and stylization, that the II should be included in line 1. I know it's awkward to say and I always just refer to it as Panzer Dragoon Zwei, but we most often go with what's on the cover as the display title and that II is on the cover just as much as any of the other words.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Jan 27, 2016, 01:58 AM
Phonograph's Avatar
Phonograph Phonograph is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,849
Default

note that tr.17 is used for Guardian Dragon which is a boss in AZEL -PanzerDragoonRPG-
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WM-0530: Panzer Dragoon Original Sound Track (Remastered) avatar Album Discussions 4 Jun 23, 2019 01:08 PM
NACL-1181: Panzer Dragoon Original Full Sound Version Hellacia Album Discussions 5 Apr 17, 2017 09:27 AM
POCH-2219: Panzer Dragoon Original Sound Track _if Album Discussions 0 Jul 12, 2013 11:47 PM
NACL-1213: Panzer Dragoon II Zwei Original Arrange Album "Alternative... Secret Squirrel Album Discussions 3 Oct 1, 2011 10:03 AM
TPCD 0221-2: PANZER DRAGOON ORTA OFFICIAL SOUNDTRACK Kaleb.G Album Discussions 6 Mar 2, 2010 01:46 AM