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#31
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For example, here are a couple of possible scenarios for this particular album (SD2 Arrange) and my opinion on whether that opinion is stupid or not: Scenario 1 Pre-listen: "What? An SD2 Arrange album? I look forward to it!" Post-listen: "It turns out that this album is a synth-upgrade style of arrange. And I think this album is good!" This opinion is valid. Scenario 2 Pre-listen: "What? An SD2 Arrange album? I look forward to it!" Post-listen: "It turns out that this album is a synth-upgrade style of arrange. This album is shit!" This opinion is valid. Although the phrase "This album is shit!" sounds like a statement of fact, I trust that this forum is educated enough to treat that phrase as an opinion, so the acronym "IMO" (in my opinion) is not required. Scenario 3 Pre-listen: "What? An SD2 Arrange album? I can only assume that it will be a Guilty Gear-style heavy metal arrange because all arrange albums involve guitars! I look forward to it!" Post-listen: "It turns out that this album is a synth-upgrade style of arrange. This album was not what I was expecting, therefore it sucks!" The album is what it is and should be treated on its own merits or demerits. One's own pre-conceptions or expectations of what the album is like or should be like is irrelevant. This opinion is invalid and stupid. In my opinion, of course. Last edited by layzee; Jul 23, 2012 at 02:14 AM. |
#32
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Regardless of the site description, the simple title 'Secret of Mana Arrange Album' is somewhat misleading and is bound to raise expectations. |
#33
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They are doing these Seiken Densetsu arrange albums to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the series. Although techically, this year celebrates the 21st anniversary, but the arrange series project began last year.
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#34
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iridescentaudio.co.uk |
#35
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It makes perfect sense. The absence or presence of money is totally irrelevant to this point.
EDIT: In case my point isn't clear yet. When you're disappointed then this is only because you had a certain expectation about an event (watching movie, listening to music, meeting someone on a blind-date, etc.). Basing these expectations on non-factual or entirely made up information is what I call stupid. In this case it's better to not have any expectations about the event at all. Last edited by LiquidAcid; Jul 23, 2012 at 01:53 PM. |
#36
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The problem I mostly have with the album is that it seems like a cheap err, "effort". Producing this album must have cost a lot of time and money. If it would be "complete", I would probably love that approach. Something like a two disc-set, all tracks looping and with "high-quality"-samples? Hell, yes! Awesome! But unfortunetely it seems just to be some sort of "best of", and well, to call it an "Arrange album"... uh, yeah... it's like a selection from an OST from an imaginary DS-remake. |
#37
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It's pointless to compare this to Ito's album, because Hiroki Kikuta has a far better ear for instrumentation than Ito ever had. Ito always sticks with a few simple templates for arranging: piano, check, strings, check, flute, check, and you're good to go! Kikuta, in a single score, provided more diversity than Ito is even capable of. I like what I've heard of the samples for this album so far, and I'm looking forward to its release.
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#38
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I can just as well claim that it's the other way round. My personal opinion about the album is completly irrelevant here. Again, requoting myself: Quote:
And I'm not trying to convince you that you have to like it. But there's a huge difference between being disappointed with a product and simply not liking it. Because the former is based on having the wrong expectations. And that's all from me concerning this matter. Last edited by LiquidAcid; Jul 24, 2012 at 06:50 AM. |
#39
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Perhaps for SD3, this concept would be more warmly accepted. Some people might be intrigued by how it would sounds like if 8 channels were allocated.
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#40
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Well, then I guess we simply disagree on that one.
Overall, I don't understand why I should believe that expectations in general are supposed to be a bad thing as soon as there's a chance to get dissapointed in the end. Being dissapointed isn't the end of the world. I rather get excited about an announcement instead of saying "Uh!! No! I don't want to get excited - I could be dissapointed! And that's super bad!! Hope I find some facts in Google before I go out of the house today!" Whatever - if this approach works for you, that's fine with me - it don't even want it to work for me. Maybe during my next life, when I'm a robot or something. Or a Vulcan. Or Micky Mouse. Quote:
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That aside, all this could still mean that I end up liking this album, of course. But right now, that doesn't matter - I don't know the album... I only have expectations - right ones, wrong ones... hm. I can live with that. ^^ |
#41
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4 more samples up My only surprise was that I was expecting a more modern upgrade of the synth set, for example like PANDORA'S VOX, but this works too.
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#42
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Go ahead and count me in the disappointed camp. What an utter waste of time.
Ya wanna know why people are disappointed? Because Ito's album(whether you liked it or not is irrelevant) was actual arrangement. It required some actual original thought and effort; "production value" or whatever you wanna call it. This is just "remastering," if that, and lazily upgrading synths(he couldn't even do live instruments? Really?) isn't "arrangement" any more than FFIV DS was arrangement, and even that was at least the whole soundtrack. It's artistically and creatively bankrupt, and that is inarguable fact. Painting a green house a slightly brighter shade of green does not require talent. Perhaps LiquidAcid's willful obtuseness would make an iota of sense if anyone was actually comparing this to Ito as if style had anything to do with the argument, but that's just missing the point. The only thing I'm comparing this "arrange" album to, the metric by which it fails to measure against, is every other arrange album ever made, including ones Kikuta himself contributed to. Kikuta's style is quite different from Ito's, as it should, but that does not give him carte-blanche to cop out and call this glorified remastering "arrangement" and sell it as an album, nor is it even indicative of his usual approach to music. Kikuta has done proper arrangement before, even of this very series. So why the laziness here? Kikuta's style is irrelevant. If he was going to call it an arrange album, ARRANGE already. It's practically false advertising. And yes, I saw the Japanese description of what the album would be before. Sucked ass then, sucks ass now. The music is still just as great as it always was and everything, and hey, if bumping up synths note-for-note and calling it a day is really all it takes to please you, fine. Your prerogative. But to me, this album represents an enormous missed opportunity and has no clear reason to even exist. Ooh, a tiny fraction of this cool soundtrack sounds slightly better. Whoop-dee-doo. Kikuta absolutely dropped the ball on this one. Last edited by NaotaM; Jul 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM. |
#43
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Ohooo, now the people from ffshrine come over to lecture us about "production value" and talent. MUAHAHA, what an utter waste of time :P
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#44
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A post as worthless as this album. How apropos.
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#45
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Much as I understand where you're coming from, you can't say things like that and expect to be taken seriously! It's very much in the domain of arguable opinion. There are very very few inarguable facts when it comes to creative fields, very little is black and white. Quote:
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Do you have experience writing music yourself? There is some artistry involved in something like this sound upgrade. To what extent/degree is another debate, but regardless, the point is it doesn't matter, who cares? It's irrelevant how much 'talent' went into making something, not least because different people have different ideas of what substantiates talent. All that matters is the bottom line, that the artist has made what they envisioned making and expressed what they wanted to express, and whether people enjoy it or not. Even ridiculous intellectualising musos like myself realise that music isn't a competition where we're trying to dicksize against eachother. Musicians are more than peacocks, as this release shows; Kikuta made what he wanted to make. That is FAR more legitimate than making music for the sake of flexing your musical muscles (not that they're mutually exclusive, but there is a case of priorities I feel.)
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iridescentaudio.co.uk |
#46
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It's been a little while since I last heard these tunes. Kikuta had such a unique style. Love it. Can't wait to hear Meridian Dance. At least the sample upgrades and production here sounds better than say Final Fantasy IV DS, which I absolutely hate. Should be a decent listen!
Last edited by strugglepoo; Jul 27, 2012 at 06:44 PM. |
#47
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I like ffiv ds ost, but I don't know if it's like what you can find on ds/psp
however, I must admit that my first listening hadn't convinced me I relistened to it when I learned it was used for the psp remake (I deeply hate 3/ds) pix and videos on youtube made me like it, but the after years "ost" didn't have the same effect (note: sorry, speaking of ffiv in a sd thread) |
#48
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(And I'm listening to the samples as we speak and it fails even at it's intended purpose. The difference in sound quality is negligible at best; Fear of the Heavens may as well be the exact same track. It's all just louder, that's it. Nobody needs this. Quote:
Oh, and sorry, but live instruments are "just better" than synth alternatives, barring such case that the performers are lobotomized. Sorry, but it's true. Composers only use midi in the first place when they have no other choice. But again, feel free to point out these apparent albums that only upgrade synths and manage to be great and not just lazy tripe. Quote:
I'm done arguing. The album's just a huge letdown and there's no excuse for it. Kikuta arranging his own, best work should've have been something special, and all he wants to do is slap some sheen on classics. Yawn. Enjoy it all you want, but I gotta say; when Kenji Ito outperforms you on literally every level, it's time to reevaluate your capabilities. |
#49
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Timbre and sound production are aspects of writing music. To some people, the superficial gloss is very important and can make or break the listening experience and their enjoyment, because it constitutes the sound itself. But it isn't just that. It isn't like there's just one way to do a sound upgrade. The artist is faced with infinite choices about what sounds to use, what effects to use, how to mix it and so on. And where there is choice, there is creativity. So how can it be creatively bankrupt? Creativity is part of that process. What it boils down to is this: if it's at all conceivable that someone would prefer these versions of the songs to their SNES counterparts (and it is easily possible), then it's artistically valid. It is that simple. What you are saying is that it's lazy, and I don't particularly disagree. The intellectual prowess (or lack thereof) that went into it is important to you. The idea that people might want to hear essentially the same songs but "better" or "different" is trite to you, because you've evolved and refined your taste in music. Fair enough if that's what works for you, but through speaking in such objective black and white terms you've failed to understand that there are other people with different value systems to yours. Quote:
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http://vgmdb.net/album/2145 http://vgmdb.net/album/5920 http://vgmdb.net/album/2091 http://vgmdb.net/album/15305 http://vgmdb.net/album/798 (partially)
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iridescentaudio.co.uk |
#50
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Interesting tweet?
http://twitter.com/Hiroki_Kikuta/sta...13531636625408 |
#51
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I like the samples. Since the SNES had (has) superb sound quality, anything similar is very interesting to my ears. Of course, I have a strong bias, since I grew up playing SNES games.
I also want to mention I am appreciative of "slightly upgraded" albums, like the recent remaster of Streets of Rage. While not jaw-dropping, it does sound better than the original Mega Drive versions. This Secret of Mana album is similarly improved upon the SNES/SFC originals, based on the samples. |
#52
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I bought this album mostly to support Kikuta-san and have a collectable, but I'm in the same boat with Jodo Kast in that I liked the sound of the SNES and synth upgrades are nice, much like with the Remastered Tracks Rockman Zero and following albums.
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hi~ |
#53
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I'll take Kikuta's synth upgrades over Ito's recent arrangements anyday ...
(eventhough I worship his snes work era) |
#54
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Wow, what a shit storm.
Anyway, if you like Secret of Mana's soundtrack there's no reason you won't like this album. This release is all about nostalgia. With game music being more available now, it makes sense that Kikuta would want to put something out there similar to the original for fans of the original who probably never picked up the soundtrack. Don't really feel this is marketed to hardcore fans of GAME MUSIC, but rather fans of GAMES. Necessary for us? Probably not. But I bet this will sell a ton to mainstream gamers because the game and soundtrack are so loved. |
#55
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you are all crazy
like, really legit crazy okay thanks |
#56
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Nothing wrong with debate.
I think it'll make more sense if there's a volume II or something later. I dunno if even three volumes would cover all the songs though. too bad
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iridescentaudio.co.uk |
#57
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Our English tracklist had track 12 as "Machines". It should be "Machineries". I fixed it.
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hi~ |
#58
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Also, shouldn't the English track name translations be consistent with the OST? Seems like we're using outdated translations here.
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hi~ |
#59
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I listened to it and I must say I'm disappointed (I maybe expected too much)
I don't know whether it's my speakers but that prophecy track has really something wrong like the sample used for it had "noises" or something even after several listenings, I can't happen to like it as I like other arrange albums (i.e. som+) |
#60
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Definitely of one the worst releases this year, IMHO. At least from Square Enix.
The concept was clear from the beginning, neverless, as Chris said, the title "Arrange Album" is absolutely misleading and irritating. Apart from this, many tracks are TOO LONG with NO new or original material within. Just listen to the three minutes of "Prophecies" and you'll get mad by any means! (oh and the "noise" apparently are thunder sound effects, aren't they?) One of the best things about this album is easily the sweet cover art Last edited by Mac_Tear; Aug 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM. |
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