James Cameron's Avatar: The Game - Original Videogame Soundtrack

[Jimby]

Thanks go out to Ramza for providing info on this album as well as giving access to the cover art.

[Arcubalis]

This album used to be in VGMdb, and I believe there was a debate around it and other albums in the database at the time that what constitutes an official soundtrack release? I think it had been determined that a composer producing a CD-R and printing out artwork and sending it to a few friends does not constitute an official soundtrack release, and therefore, should not be in the database. This is not an album that any collector is going to be able to get their hands on, as it's largely unofficial.

Now, to open that debate again, what should be included? If a composer does a limited print run of 50 CDs for PR purposes only, should that CD be in this database? I know we have them around. Is the determining factor how and where it was printed? Home CD-R drive, versus a disc maker that may also produce CD-Rs?

Ramza is a dear friend, but my vote is that stuff like this doesn't belong in the database. Unfortunately this is an official soundtrack database rather than a general music database, so homebrew stuff is where I draw the line.

[Efendija]

Well there's this old thread which points out it shoud be formatted as an album and have some proof that it actually existed. Avatar entry seems fine in that regard?

Many of these promos do end up on ebay at some point so they can be acquired at the end of the day.

[Jimby]

I see the argument both ways and I wrestled with the eligibility before posting it. I figured that there's precedent for these albums being on the database and I think it's worth being on here for posterity, if nothing else.
It would be my personal preference that these kinds of album get posted and then their eligibility debated on a case by case basis rather than dismissing them altogether.

[Ramza]

Arc,

Someone other than me or you spread the CD-R's contents across the 'net. The album, with track titles as denoted by Chance, can be found as a YouTube playlist, and there are other sites that document the album's release *as though* it had been retail at some point.

From my perspective, and this is why I told Jimby all I knew, having this listing here with the notes at the bottom helps fans and collectors understand that it never had a print available to the public.

I'm told that the same is true for one of the two volumes that Origin put out (see "Origin Soundtrack" and "Origin Soundtrack Series 2"). And those are both on the db.

Just my 2 cents.

[Arcubalis]

I actually own this particular CD-R.

And yes, it may be obtainable, but it's not an official release by any stretch of the imagination. It's an private CD produced in an amateur manner to be shared privately. Whether they ended up out in the public or not doesn't matter. I could make a collection of my favorite game music, print up some artwork, and distribute it on eBay and it doesn't constitute an official release. If this was distributed in some official capacity but never distributed (like Granado Espada), that's a different story.

As somebody who's written music for projects and represents composers who also do so, and who has burned some of it to CD to share with friends, my intent would be for it NOT to be listed here. In fact, we could all be getting these artists in trouble with their clients for listing this kind of unofficial material, as these artists generally do not own the rights to this music and do not have the authorization to distribute it in this manner. We could, at worst, jeopardize these artists' relationship with the developer or even get them sued.

It's bad for composers and it's bad for collectors who will likely never get their hands on the material, and, as a collector, will likely be disappointed when they see it's just a crappy CD-R out of the composer's CD burner!

EDIT: I'd add that if the composer owned the rights to the music, it'd be on Bandcamp, not on a CD-R.

[Secret Squirrel]

Hey guys. So I'm conflicted on what to do with this.

Arguments for keeping this entry:

• Has the trappings of an album. (or does it? Was a cover printed for it?)
• Having a review up on OSV gives it legitimacy.
• Of interest to our audience because it is out there.

Arguments for removing this entry:

• Composers pass CDRs like this around all the time
• Chance Thomas may not own the rights, and there could be repercussions for him

In the discussion thread that Efendija linked (thanks for finding that), I was initially concerned about how this would open us up to hosting just about anything, but was swayed by community's interest in some of these as long as it was tempered by the album seeming like a release, which meant that it had media, was organized with a tracklist, and had some kind of identifiable physical packaging (like Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance The Soundtrack).

But these days, I think it just as likely that a composer sends out an encrypted zip file to clients and reviewers. I don't think those should count as a release (or else that opens us up to practically anything again.) So my first question is, how was this album physically packaged?

On the arguments for removing, we are very sensitive to anything that could damage a composer. In the past we have:

• Disassociated composers' doujin works from their official works because it can harm their career.
• Removed a bunch of Frank Klepacki digital "albums" because they were accidentally left publicly accessible on his website.

So, if a composer is going to get into hot water for a VGMdb entry over one of these promos, I think we would gladly comply and remove it even if the above criteria were more fully met. So my second question (and I don't know if we can get an answer), but what does Chance Thomas think about it?

[Arcubalis]

Haha, right, I was going to say, "Why dont' we ask Chance?"

In these cases, perhaps it would be best to contact the distributor (composer, label, etc.) and ask if they want it listed, and document that that has been done in the discussion thread for that album. Kind of like how we're now requiring people to "source" their information for edits.

[Efendija]

Since you're at it, another similar older entry is here (Mr. Thomas again)
http://vgmdb.net/album/13698

Maybe a good moment to ask about that one too (Ramza kindly offered to ask but there were no further replies in the topic).

[Ramza]

I haven't talked to him in a few years. Shall I do the honors, or you wanna have at it Arc?

(possible benefit to you reaching out over me -- maybe these albums could finally see the light of day, on Scarlet Moon <3 <3 )

[Myrkul]

We do have plenty of entries like this...
I am thinking about Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance The Soundtrack, The Lord of the Rings Online: Riders of Rohan Original Music Soundtrack, Ultima X: Odyssey

Would be nice to statuate once and for all.
I'd like to keep these entries only if it does not cause any problem for the composer/the persons involved.