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  #1  
Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:43 PM
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Mortavia Mortavia is offline
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I made some changes to a number of tracks on the Japanese tracklist. There were some strange errors:

關 was replaced with ※1
崆 was replaced with ※2
峴 was replaced with ※3
俏 was replaced with ※4

I found some websites with these same errors, I bet this was probably copied from a website with strange character encoding or something. Other than those errors, I added the :決勝 to track 37, it was missing it. So now the Japanese tracklist should be 100% accurate, I own the set of this game+music CDs and checked it against my copy.

Now, I would like to know: how the heck do these English translations come into being? I can't get close to anything it says here a lot of the time when trying to translate these tracks. I try multiple different dictionaries for Japanese, Traditional Chinese, Simplified Chinese... and I don't think the dictionaries are just pulling from the same source or something (like they all use edict or something)... can anyone tell me what I'm missing? I didn't think I was such a big newbie to Japanese, I've been translating it for years now and know some stuff. I'm definitely not saying these translations are wrong, because they make more sense than anything I've been able to come up with. But I have no idea how to achieve them. For example, track 5.

無界: No dictionary gives me "netherworld", but it looks like "makai", am I supposed to assume?
縫細: I very commonly get "thin sewing", I get this from tangorin.com, mandarintools.com, babylon.com, Google Translate (yes, even Google matches up!)... I am so confused, haha. It's so far off from "opening".

I've learned what I know from reading online and "teaching myself" as they say. I would appreciate the help of a true expert!
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  #2  
Old Feb 11, 2013, 07:42 AM
doppel9014 doppel9014 is offline
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Of your are confused, because the original tracklist is not actually Japanese. They are basically Chinese, except they replaced some Chinese characters with Japanese ones.
For example, tr.28 下ヒ, the original chinese is 下邳 (邳 is pronounced as pei, similar to べ)

無界 is a imaginary realm in the game, which players can upgrade/produce gears. I have no idea why it is translated into netherworld, perhaps the translator saw the similarity between 無界 and 陰間 and so on.

縫細 = 細縫, which means opening. In Chinese, you can reverse two characters and still have the same meaning. This is usually done for natural reading and avoiding repeat.

By the way, can you check some track names, the back image is too small for me to confirm.

13. 沙暴廢抗
Is it 抗, or 坑?

31. 塙笑
塙 or 搞?

38. 官渡:路關瞼
瞼 or 險?

I don't want to be the ass, but well, most titles are wrongly translated.
As for the rest, despite the translator did get some meaning, but are overall inappropriately translated.
I will suggest to delete the tracklist, stop confusing more people.
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  #3  
Old Feb 11, 2013, 07:57 AM
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Phonograph Phonograph is offline
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you should provide a translation in order to compare, let blah decide if isdapi should be burned at the stake ;p
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  #4  
Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:24 PM
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Mortavia Mortavia is offline
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Yeah, I checked the characters against my copy when I made those changes, and everything matches up. I checked every character. And thanks for explaining that to me. I considered playing this game to try and see if I could pick up some context, but I just don't have time to invest myself in a game like this right now I don't think... maybe someday when I'm not so busy with school. Since it was never localized, it would have to be a project like I did with Tengai Makyou IV, and it can take quite some time to go through a game in another language.

If anybody can offer up their expertise (and possibly knowledge of the game) in providing us a new tracklist, that would be super. My iPod loves accurate track names.
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  #5  
Old Feb 12, 2013, 08:27 AM
doppel9014 doppel9014 is offline
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I found another page with tracklist that confirm my doubt except 31.
http://jdk.sakura.ne.jp/cd/append_cd_gensou2_ost.htm
If the page is to be believed, it should be 坑 in tr13 and 險 in tr38, but seems you are very certain...

Anyway, I translate the tracklist. I totally understand the meanings in Chinese, but I don't think my English is good enough to choose the right words.

Spoiler:
01 Theme Song: Frontier
02 The Suspended Garden: The Ornate Architectures
03 The Field: Beyond the Bound
04 Han Tan in Bai Ma: Blue River and Magnificent Cavern
05 The Breach of Wu Jie: Floating Boat under Moving Clouds
06 Zhao De Cun: Warming Wind
07 Hidden Passage in the Ancient Imperial Palace: Chilling Night
08 Fei Huang Palace: Fighting Fei Huang
09 The General Appears: Invincible
10 Normal Battle 2: 談笑論劍
11 Underworld: Realm of the Dead
12 Romantic Love Song: Expressing Feelings Under the Moon
13 Sandstorm Pit: Flute Echoes in the Wilderness
14 Tong Guan Waterway: Drizzle on the Mountain
15 Rei Ze in Pu Yang: Thunder at Dark Night
16 Xiao Guan: Lurking Shadows
17 She Ru Po: Initiated Clash
18 Sho Chun: One against All
19 Battlefield Boss Fight: 爭鋒
20 Tension 2 (High): Perils all around
21 Grief: Resentment of Departing
22 Fu Yue Lin: Clear Moon in Silent Forest
23 Sorrow: The Endless Yearning
24 Flowery Ground
25 Love Lamentation (Pipa Less Vocal Version)
26 Wuo Wun Ta: Half Day
27 Luo Yang: Autumnal Frost
28 Kahi: End of the Hero
29 Zhen Jiang: The Beauty Smiles
30 Relaxation and Humour
31 Joking
32 Low Tension
33 Kong Xian Shan: Dance of the Mist
34 Luo Yang Western Plank Road: Rumble
35 Xu Du: The Song Before Journey
36 Chang An: Emperor's Inspection
37 Battlefield Fight: Final Fight
38 Guan Du: Dangerous Pass
39 Normal Boss Fight: Confrontation
40 Tian Ruo Gong: Tian Ruo's Heavenly
41 Xiao Pei: Prosperous Landscape
42 You Yan Dao: Rainbow Coat
43 The Imperial Palace: Emperor's Ambition
44 Xu Zhou: Battalion
45 Heavy Shock: Beautiful Dream Breaks
46 Final Boss Fight: Reaching beyond Skies
47 Insert Song: Love Lamentation


Names for places are all romanized

談笑論劍, well I don't know how to explain this to English minds.
Google actually gives some part of its meaning : learn from each other by exchanging views
Basically, it is an action that through casual fighting or arguing that people will be able to find each others' mistakes and improve themselves.
There is no way you are going to write all this thing for track title, right?

爭鋒, "battling swords" might be easier for people to understand. It actually means two people have their sword crossed and fight to win over each other.

Some terms are also worth discussing
萬夫莫敵 is an adjective meaning"even 10 thousands of people can not overcome (somebody)", I will just put invincible here.
一夫當關 describes a situation that one man defending a location (e.g. city gate) against the whole army.

I put grief for "悲慟", this word is more serious than sorrow or sadness, it is a pain that come deep inside your heart. I don't know if grief is strong enough for this case.

And more...

I suppose you guys don't have Chinese culture background, it is normal if you find difficult understanding "Floating Boat under Moving Clouds" or "Blue River and Magnificent Cavern". Well, try to actualize such scenes, sense the environment, you might get the meaning.
Those terms are actually quite complicated and I don't think the meanings can be summarized within 4 or 5 words.
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  #6  
Old Feb 12, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Mortavia Mortavia is offline
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Hey, I have to apologize. Your doubts were right. When checking this tracklist, I guess I wasn't looking closely enough for the very subtle differences in the characters, or it was late, or other dumb excuses. Track 13 should be 沙暴廢坑:荒山野笛, track 31 should be 搞笑, and track 38 should be 官渡:路關險. I guess I'll have to check the back totally over again too, to make sure I didn't miss anything else.

And thanks for translating this! So it sounds like 談笑論劍 basically means "understanding through dissidence", if I'm getting what you're saying correctly? I like the translation "One Against All", it instantly reminds me of Zhang Fei (even though I guess it's about Sho Chun). As for 悲慟, there are many different words for grief, but it can get a little ridiculous using a thesaurus for coming up with track names. I instantly thought of "bereavement" when you said you wanted something strong, but that may be too much. You could look at the list yourself, though you said you may not be so good at the English, so do it only if you want (or you probably already tried this).

Also, the words "under" and "against" are capitalized in titles.

Fun fact: a Google Images search for 萬夫莫敵 gives images of the Michael Jackson album "Invincible" and the Mark Wahlberg movie "Invincible", amongst other things.

EDIT: While I'm here doing this and I have the game box out and stuff, I made some changes to the names of this and the Arrange CD:
- English is now in caps and all one word for the name, it's written like this everywhere, even on the discs
- Japanese uses the Roman numeral II, not the Arabic 2 (Arabic 2 is not used anywhere)
- Interpunct added in オリジナルサウンドトラック (written as オリジナル・サウンドトラック on the spine)
- Interpuncts removed in スーパー・アレンジ・バージョン (written as スーパーアレンジバージョン on the spine)
I guess one day I could add some scans... if I can find the time.

Last edited by Mortavia; Feb 12, 2013 at 11:11 AM.
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  #7  
Old Feb 12, 2013, 06:02 PM
doppel9014 doppel9014 is offline
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That's a good way to interpret its meaning and I think bereavement is actually enough for the word.

Sho Chun is an imaginary place in the game, and yes, it is Zhang Fei who is defending against Cao Cao's army, if I remeber it correct. Though the whole thing seems to be fictional.

Last edited by doppel9014; Feb 12, 2013 at 08:39 PM.
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  #8  
Old Feb 12, 2013, 08:26 PM
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Mortavia Mortavia is offline
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From what I learned about Romance of the Three Kingdoms from Shin Sangokumusou (which could be nothing considering it's just a video game), Zhang Fei is always allied with Liu Bei, not Cao Cao. Can't comment on Genso Sangokushi. But I am quite a Shu girl, hahah. Zhang Fei at the Chang Ban bridge... doesn't get much more ridiculous than that!
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  #9  
Old Feb 13, 2013, 10:19 PM
Raziel Raziel is offline
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Yes, Zhang Fei, Guan Yu and Liu Bei all swore an oath in the beginning of the novel about being together and if one were to die, the other two would follow immediately.

Never liked Shu, though. I'm more into Wu and Wei.
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  #10  
Old Feb 14, 2013, 03:28 PM
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Mortavia Mortavia is offline
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Awww, no love for Shu? I do like Wei, they've got the Hero of Chaos and the Coming Evil, but I find Zhao Yun, Zhuge Liang, and Liu Bei to be irresistible. I have no love for Wu at all, they're the "young and hip" crowd and they just come off annoying. The whole Sun family bugs me except for Jian, and the pretty boys like Zhou Yu and Ling Tong are just kinda nauseating, hahaha.

I wonder how many of those characters are present in this game, since I believe it is based on the same historic novel. I know Zhao Yun is in it (YAY), but that's all I know.
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