KICA-1445~8: Trusty Bell ~Chopin no Yume~ Original Score

[Dais]

Quick question from someone who lacks any ability to compare music:

Is there any relation between the song "Scrap and build ourselves -from Revolution-" and the track "Scrap and build" from Sakuraba's "Gikyokuonsou" album?

[Chris]

I think the name of the final battle theme mainly represents a stylistic relation to Gikyokuonsou rather than a thematic one. The track just seems to blend together Chopin's revolutionary etude, Sakuraba's Gikyokuonsou-style progressive rock work, and Sakuraba's latest overblown amateurish orchestration. I'm sure some chord progressions are reused between the two tracks, but that's probably coincidental given it is Sakuraba after all. More subtle thematic references would surprise me given how coarse the orchestration is. I've not taken the time to close check though -- 'build ourselves' makes me cry every time so I tend to avoid it. Hope that's a precise enough answer for you. >_>

[Datschge]

Sakuraba doesn't name any of his tracks so even if it was someone's conscious decisions to name them the same it was not his.

[Don]

Well, I learn something new every day. Who usually names them?

[Datschge]

Whoever directs the works most likely does (or doesn't, like in the case of the supplemental soundtracks to the anime Pluster World where the track names were like M-7, M-12, M-29 etc.). That's his wife Yuko for his solo works, Masaaki Uno for the early Wolfteam, then Camelot works, likely Hiroya Hatsushiba for the infamous convoluted track titles of tri-Ace and tri-Crescendo, likely Michihiko Shichi for the current gen tri-Ace works, possibly Shuji Ikegami for the Tales game, likely Mitsugu Nakamura of TEAM Entertainment respectively their clients for everything else.

[Dais]

Thanks for the info. I think I dimly recall having heard before that Sakuraba didn't name his tracks, but it didn't actually occur to me now how weird that actually made so many of the actual song names.

I wonder if has any control over how the tracks are ordered on the albums. It's always kind of bugged me when a soundtrack lumps all the battle themes together, and that's happened with a few scores he's worked on.

[Cedille]

It's apparently confirmed Hiroya Hatsushiba has handled the naming of Tri-Ace and Tri-Crescendo games (I don't own it, but some VP guide book contains the interview with him), and I've also heard Yuko was responsible for Gikyoku and FoG, but aside of it, I don't have anything that can conclude Sakuraba doesn't ever name *any* of his works. It's arguably likely though.

I also think it's not so smart and insightful for some people to try to dismiss VGM by its name (regardless of how they think they would look to others) because 1) English tracklists often tend to have mistranslations and be even more long-winded than in Japanese (although I adore the efforts of submitting a translated list for every release) 2) whatever the name is, a piece of VGM should be criticized more for the context or the sequence where it's played than the name alone.

Originally Posted by Don

Well, I learn something new every day. Who usually names them?

It's not rare composers don't name their own works (e.g. Chrono Cross or FFXII), but it's not rare they name theirs, either (e.g. FFT).

[seanne]

I'm a bit surprised to hear this since the track titles for Sakuraba's albums tend to stick out with their funny Engrish, I mean it's like that for so many of his albums I always assumed he named the pieces himself.

[Datschge]

Originally Posted by Cedille

I don't have anything that can conclude Sakuraba doesn't ever name *any* of his works.

Some further known pointers to this (besides the Pluster World case I mentioned above): In the @MIDI's freedom's liner notes where Sakuraba contributed four pieces Hassy (aka Hatsushiba) complained about it being hard to come up with decent track titles. At the concerts Sakuraba usually talked about "this and that battle, dungeon etc. track" instead calling them by their names. The three original pieces at the 2004 concert were given generic descriptors like "original nr. 3 synth" etc.

That for some Sakuraba is synonymous with Engrish track titles just shows how many people mostly focus on the works with involvement by Hatsushiba (understandably so, even if I wish people would look more into the works for animes, Camelot and TEAM Entertainment since those tend to be more varied imo).

[Chris]

Are you sure Hassy = Hatsushiba now, given I believe you factually stated Hassy = Naruke before as well. It sounds about right this time, but I'd like a solid primary source.

[Datschge]

After I got the @MIDI series of CDs it was clear Hatsushiba is Hassy since all of Sakuraba's "guest" contributions on there went through him. The previous Hassy = Naruke confusion stems from the fact that a Hassy was credited for music in the SFC version of Tenshi no Uta (Naruke composed the two Tenshi no Uta games for PC Engine, of which the main theme was reused) while Hatsushiba was credited with his real name as sound programmer within the same staff list.

[Chris]

Cheers for the confirmation! Seems like Hatsushiba composed quite a bit more than just a few of those Wolfteam games then!

[Datschge]

Keep in mind though that those Wolfteam music credits usually include sound effects if that job is not listed separately. That's why the extend of composing involvement of Ryota Furuya in Tales of Phantasia is unclear. But yeah, Hatsushiba did compose himself at least for the @MIDI CDs.

[Revoc]

I've removed Hiroyuki Koike Strings from the performers field since in the game credits there is nothing about this. All strings performers are credited individually. Btw, the booklet doesn't credits the performers.

[Aifread]

Disc 1, track 17 should be something like "It's up to you" rather than "Your circumstances." Seems not all the Engrish was Hatsushiba. I may give all the translated tracks here a once over because it looks like there's more.

[Aifread]

Okay, here are some ideas I have for translation changes in the English tracklist:

1.09 手の中の淡い光 A faint light grasped in the hand ---> A faint light in the hand
1.17 あなた次第 Your circumstances ---> It's up to you (次第 works like a suffix that means "depending on")
1.13 立ち向かう覚悟 Opposition resignation ---> The resolve to face your opponent (the original here just took the meaning of the two words and stuck them together not thinking about the grammar...)
1.21 同じようで違うけど同じ? Can we be both different and alike? ---> Similar and different, yet the same?
2.08 侮らない構え The posture you do not despise ---> A stance not to be taken lightly (This one was just awful. 侮る in this context more likely means "to take lightly")
3.05 和を尊ぶ調べ An inspection which values harmony ---> A study on the importance of harmony (調べ can mean "investigation," but can also refer to a tune or melody. I tried to capture this dual sense by wording this to suggest that the study may be the piece of music itself.)
3.06 明日から… From tomorrow on... ---> Starting tomorrow... ("From tomorrow on..." isn't strictly incorrect, but I think this sounds more natural)
3.13 冷厳な意志 Grim purpose ---> (gonna need input from people who've played this for context. Ideas: "Grim volition," "Stern will," "Stark determination")
4.11 事実と誠実，そして真実 Reality and honesty, then truth ---> Fact and faith, and therefor truth (there's a bit of alliteration/rhyme in the Japanese here, but it's difficult to capture in the last word, "truth")
4.13 大切な人 An important person ---> A beloved person (大切な has a positive connotation; "important" is a bit too dry in this instance. If this refers to Chopin specifically, "A great man" or "A beloved figure" might fit better)
4.15 鏡天花 Kyoutenka ---> this one is really hard to translate, but I think the sound test's "Heaven's Mirror" is probably best at capturing both the meaning of the kanji and the image of what the world of Eternal Sonata actually is.

[Aifread]

1.10 皆が求する凡庸

This one is a hard nut to crack. 求する doesn't show up in dictionaries or google, and it leads me to believe it's a play on words. The normal word for "search" should be 求める (motomeru), but 求する would read as "kyuusuru." I think it's meant to be a play on 窮する ("kyuusuru," to become poor) while also taking on the meaning of 求める (search). I'm basing this off of what I've read about the town and the incident with stealing food for the orphaned kids. So the two interpretations would be: 1. "The complacency that everyone seeks," and 2. "The complacency that makes everyone poor." I'd suggest as a translation, "Everyone seeks complacency, but finds poverty." Note that the other translations treat 凡庸 as "mediocrity" but since this is a town theme, I think "complacency" fits better.

[Aifread]

Would it be alright to edit the English tracklist with these changes? Or should I make a separate one? Or does no one care about this at all?

[_if]

I'm not staff, but I've never seen anyone complain about improving translations. From your explanations and how well your translated titles retain meaning while still flowing nicely, it seems to me like you're exceptionally good at this.

[Aifread]

I submitted the above changes along with a few others:

1.20 明暗を分かつ瞬き A flicker that divides light and dark -> Outcome decided in a blink (明暗を分ける is an idiom that means "to decide the outcome (of a game, etc)." 分かつ is a synonym to 分ける, so I assume the meaning is retained. 瞬き can mean flicker but can also refer to blinking your eye)
2.07 DANTOTSU! -> I'm the best by far! (Even though it's written with the roman alphabet here, I'm gonna treat this as a Japanese title that should be translated. It's possible Hatsushiba assumed the word was English because it's often written in katakana, or maybe he just thought it looked cooler in romaji)
2.14 静寂と生息 Silence and life -> Stillness and life (Stillness fits better when talking about nature)
3.03 心の散歩 Walk of the heart -> Stroll of the heart (散歩 means going out for a walk, so stroll fits better. I quite like the sound test's "Strolling Hearts" but I kept this a bit more literal for people who prefer that)
3.10 一歩 A step -> A step forward (Minor change here. 一歩 is presumably a step toward some sort of goal)

[Aifread]

For those who want a full English tracklist that makes sense, I'd recommend combining English tracklist I just edited with the sound test's changes to Hatsushiba's weird "engrish." The sound test did a good job of getting at what Hatsushiba /probably/ meant to say based on common mistakes that occur from native Japanese to non-native English. Though it seems they missed some idioms and wordplay in their translations of the Japanese tracks, notably 1.10 and 1.20. Others you can just go with whatever sounds nicer. I tried to keep the English tracklist fairly literal with the translations since the sound test already offers a good localization with better wording in some places.

[Aifread]

This leads me to another question: should I tweak those "engrish" track titles as well or just leave them be? I dunno if there's a policy against rewriting track titles like that, but if changed they'd still be viewable in the Japanese tracklist. Personally I think they look out of place with the properly translated Japanese titles.