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  #1  
Old Sep 7, 2012, 04:52 AM
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dancey dancey is offline
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Default Items for sale before they've even available...

I know I'm a cynical asshole and all sorts of other things, but really? Selling an item you have on preorder that you don't even have with a description that flaunts the fact that you're going to flip the album afterwards?

http://vgmdb.net/db/marketplace.php?...ew&userid=6233

Come on... That just screams some sort of file trading motive. Could you be any more transparent? I'm not ignorant of all the file sharing and such that goes on within this whole scene; my issue has always been with those that flaunt it. I'm fine if you want to flip albums like that but have a bit of decency about it, for flips sake (pun intended).

... that being said, would it be prudent to disable being able to add albums to your sale list for things not yet released yet (in the future)? You really shouldn't be able to do this, regardless of your motive or views on the subject. You can't sell something you don't yet own.
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  #2  
Old Sep 7, 2012, 05:22 AM
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ilef ilef is offline
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1) Why does it matter to you what others do with "their" purchases or, more specifically, pre-orders? From my point of view, a user shall be free to resell an album as soon as he/she gets it, if the need/desire arise. I don't see what harm might he/she do, apart from 'damaging' a few wallet(s), but still... all's good: some user willing to pay such prices, or get albums off him/her would still have to show up. Can't we all mind our own business? Calatia isn't really doing anything wrong. YOU are assuming some file-trading is going to happen, but can you really prove it?

2) If I'm not mistaken, that user once said in one of those threads that he/she tends to buy an album->make a digital copy->resell... So, I'd dare to say that what's currently pictured in the sale list above is the standard course of action for such person.
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Last edited by ilef; Sep 7, 2012 at 05:35 AM.
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  #3  
Old Sep 7, 2012, 06:26 AM
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Secret Squirrel Secret Squirrel is offline
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I notice that a lot of people like to put their pre-purchased albums in an "incoming" folder of their collection, so I don't think we want to disable it.
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  #4  
Old Sep 7, 2012, 09:37 PM
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TerraEpon TerraEpon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilef View Post
1YOU are assuming some file-trading is going to happen, but can you really prove it?

2) If I'm not mistaken, that user once said in one of those threads that he/she tends to buy an album->make a digital copy->resell... So, I'd dare to say that what's currently pictured in the sale list above is the standard course of action for such person.
Even if no file sharing is going on, and we've had the debate before, it's hardly any 'better' to buy something, rip it, and resell than it is to simply download it without buying it. Anyone who thinks they can get free (or mostly free) music that way and feel high and mighty that they aren't some lowly pirate about themselves are simply deluded.
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Old Sep 7, 2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
Even if no file sharing is going on, and we've had the debate before, it's hardly any 'better' to buy something, rip it, and resell than it is to simply download it without buying it. Anyone who thinks they can get free (or mostly free) music that way and feel high and mighty that they aren't some lowly pirate about themselves are simply deluded.
I personally agree with you, but still, look at the example linked above: the user isn't doing anything wrong, legally... As far as I know, law doesn't forbid you to resell an album as soon as you get your hands on it. You may not like it, but well... shit happens. And, if the user is going to keep a digital copy of the product after the sale, it would be his/her goddamn problem... legally-wise, that is. I mean, with the situation at hand we MIGHT guess that the user's going to be a bad guy and keep a digital copy to himself, but that would remain a guess. For the way the stuff is "worded", there isn't really much to go against.... There's room for multiple, possible, outcomes.

It's not like the user can actually force anyone to buy the album off him/her... So, here's to you an example of a "legally-accepted" situation: actual copy+digital copy. I hate when people assumes too often something bad/illegal is going to happen, and want to stop it BEFORE something... again good or bad... actually happens.

If you're going to stop people from adding unreleased stuff into a sale list, you might as well make every collection automatically private and disable private messaging.... That way you'll prevent stuff like folks still requesting to share rips of your albums and, even worse, those who ask you to sell stuff when you don't have a sale list (= not planning to sell anything, theoretically), too.
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Last edited by ilef; Sep 7, 2012 at 10:57 PM.
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  #6  
Old Sep 8, 2012, 02:16 PM
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I'm not here to preach about legal shit or any of that. I'm preaching to not be a giant fucking douchebag and stuff it in everyone's face like that. I don't give a shit what you do with your files, who you give them to, how you flip your shit or anything else. Don't advertise on a community full of people who actually give a shit about this industry and one another and that you're basically in it for your own selfish pride/ego/narcissistic digital music collection.

The trigger for the post was the fact that the new sale items get emailed out daily.
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  #7  
Old Sep 8, 2012, 03:20 PM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
Don't advertise on a community full of people who actually give a shit about this industry and one another and that you're basically in it for your own selfish pride/ego/narcissistic digital music collection.
This.

I'm very much in favor of just deleting such users (no warnings), where the purpose of their wishlist/albumlist is clear as day. That would also apply to the people who explictly state in their wishlist that they're looking for a lossless copy (yes, I've seen that), and similar cases.

If you do "this kinda stuff", do it elsewhere or keep it on a low profile here.
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  #8  
Old Sep 8, 2012, 09:41 PM
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I guess what I tried to convey with my last post wasn't as obvious as I thought. I agree with you, dancey, but you can't seriously expect the Staff to disable a feature simply because there are a few douchebags which use it the 'wrong' way. If they go and follow your suggestion, what's going to stop me from requesting to disable stuff like private messages and contact information fields, the next time? You have no idea how much of this crap happens in the movie soundtrack/score scene: loads of folks which pre-order copies of the latest Intrada and/or La-La Land just to sell them at a much higher price. Oh, don't tell me, you don't give a crap about it.

It's not the tool to blame, but the one using it.

There's nothing wrong with the act itself. Obviously, the guy above wouldn't have stirred so much trouble with a different, more subtle approach... but still, give the offender(s) a warning, or ban directly. There's no need to completely disable such option, it can be used with "perfectly fine and legit intentions": if I want to sell an album as soon as I get my hands on it, I'm totally entitled to do so, I don't give a shit if you don't like it... or if you automatically assume I'm going to be a pirate and keep a digital copy to myself, that... unless proved otherwise (something you can't really do, in most cases)... is only a thought of yours, folks.

What I'm suggesting, basically, is to punish the user(s) which take the 'Calatia' approach. That should be enough.
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Last edited by ilef; Sep 8, 2012 at 10:11 PM. Reason: Corrections
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  #9  
Old Sep 10, 2012, 09:41 AM
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I may have agreed with you at one point but now I don't. Why not forgo waiting to sell an album unless it is limited edition? If people can't sell albums after ripping them then you are arguing against the second-hand market or for DRM in vgm. As long as people aren't buying up all the copies and selling them back at overinflated prices I don't have a problem with it.

I had bought SYNTHESIZED3 for the Neo Contra OST pre-order bonus. I listened to SYNTHESIZED3 and realized I didn't like it. I sold it the same week to Calatia for a decent price to recoup some price losses. I still have WAVE files as I don't feel like deleting the few tracks I like. No need to justify this to anyone.

It makes no sense to wait till the album is OOP to sell it back and keep the files for a clear conscience (a process no one complains about).
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Last edited by Vert1; Sep 10, 2012 at 10:04 AM.
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  #10  
Old Sep 10, 2012, 09:39 PM
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It's still piracy just as if you downloaded the tracks without buying the CD. Once you sell it you have no right to the music any more.

It boggles me how many people cannot understand that simple concept.
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  #11  
Old Sep 10, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Of course it is piracy to still have the SYNTHESIZED3 files. I'm just being difficult. I don't add anything that's not a physical format to my collection and I almost never sell vgm albums. I can understand the temptation to not let go of files after selling an album. I probably shouldn't have even sold SYNTHESIZED3. Ugh.
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Last edited by Vert1; Sep 10, 2012 at 11:41 PM.
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