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#1
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PSA for those in the EU: CDJAPAN/NEOWING starts collecting VAT at checkout!
I haven't seen it mentioned in the forums yet so I decided to create a thread about it.
It seems that from January 12, 2023 onwards they started collecting VAT at checkout! This is a pretty big deal for for people like me as it will make the whole customs process speedier and cheaper. CDJAPAN is still one the best remaining sources that neither restrict the availability of certain items (amazon.co.jp), price inflates them (play-asia.com) or provides some flimsy packaging (amazon, Square-Enix EU shop, etc). |
#2
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Seems like it's still limited though, with the reduced rates only being available at the end of the year.
As for cheaper and speedier, I don't know. I basically only use proxy services these days and use DHL as the carrier. It can take less than 48 hours for the whole shipping process (from start (Japan) to my doorstep (Germany), including the whole customs process with me paying). So not paying upfront isn't really a detriment when it's done right. Then again, I heard that importing stuff can be awful in...was it Belgium where they demand huge service fees? |
#4
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As I've been living outside the EU for a long time, I have not yet understood one thing: how do the customs and/or the delivery company know that you have already paid VAT?
So far I've always been asked to pay at delivery. The "service fees" Lucumo mentions are administrative fees, and they are levied by most if not all transporters in Europe (at least public/official state postal services). Where I'm from it's 15 eur PER PACKAGE, no matter the value or weight. This means you have to pay 15 eur per package on top of VAT - if your package gets caught and you are asked VAT. 90% of the time, 15 eur will be higher than VAT itself. Some organisations have logded complaints as this is basically legalised theft, but it seems nothing can be done. I've looked into it, the only way to avoid these fees is to follow up the customs procedure for your package by yourself, which is basically impossible unless you set up a company that the customs will work with. It's getting really expensive for EU citizens to import anything from the outside. And since we produce basically nothing... So in theory if the seller charges VAT directly on his side, the administrative fees CANNOT be asked anymore. Which would be a great thing. It does mean you won't get the chance of avoiding VAT though (as sometimes your package can slip through customs). |
#5
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That used to be very common, but since 2021 all packages coming from outside of the EU are supposed to go through customs for VAT collection. Where I'm from it's strictly enforced. Last edited by sechsterangriff; Jan 28, 2023 at 05:59 PM. |
#6
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Pay at delivery? Here in Germany that was a thing back in 2012 where you could get lucky and they forgot to do it. Some companies like Amazon Japan already took the local VAT back in 2013 when ordering directly (before that, I had used a forwarding service, Tenso, which was crap). Though, back then it was only one rate and they refunded you when you ordered products with a reduced rate (which I did). Over the next couple of years they got rid of paying at delivery and they basically gave your package to the closest place that takes packages for carriers (weird system here but I guess they did it to lighten the load off the carrier main buildings).
Anyway, that aside. Things changed in July 2021...probably for the whole EU? Here, we had no local VAT for packages below 22€ and below 45€ when gift. The below 22€ part got removed and you now pay for everything, if the resulting local VAT is at least 1€. At the same time, they introduced IOSS (Import One Stop Shop) where sellers/shops can register or need to register if they are on Ebay/Amazon and the like. Considering Amazon Japan did this already ten years ago, I guess they used a system like that back then...but Amazon always had a special status for some reason. So, apparently the packages then get a IOSS number and via that they can see that VAT has already been paid. There was also a rather recent (November 2022 IIRC) change which bothers me. I guess due to more automatization, the international carriers now require "clear" descriptions etc for the customs papers. I had a discussion with the proxy service I'm currently using since they tend to mislabel what they buy for me. Now it's now longer possible to edit the name of an item which means that some stuff I buy is declared wrongly and I can't correct it anymore. Apparently, the change was pushed by DHL and Fedex and companies have to follow suit. Like, when I bought a goods set, they separated the single order/item into separate parts, each named differently and assigned a fraction of the actual value. So...yeah, messy. Regarding service/administrative fees in Germany: We never paid any at all. Supposedly, that changed in March 2018 when they then asked for 6€ in fees. Those fees are due to the carrier paying customs the local VAT in advance and then later getting the local VAT from you. However, since that date I have imported dozens of packages and only a single time did I have to pay the extra 6€. The other times I always paid only the local VAT. So...doesn't seem to work as intended, at least for me. Then again, the whole shebang done by the EU is supposedly to combat all the people importing stuff from China where they mislabel like crazy and since I only import from Japan...it's ok? No idea. Point is, in all my time of importing, I only ever paid service fees once. And the delivery service is quite good here. Meanwhile, in other EU countries... Apart from companies including local VAT in their prices, the DHL delivery I mentioned could also be the solution for people in countries with crappy service. For instance, on the customs papers there is my email address. So when the DHL package gets registered in Japan, I first get an email with the info and I can select delivery method (no signature required or other options I don't care about). Then the packages is on the way, gets info digitally transferred, they calculate local VAT and when it arrives in Germany, I get an email asking me to pay it. I can then select that I want to pay via PayPal and I do just that while the package is already being prepared for delivery regardless. And, like I said, the process is so smooth it doesn't even take 48 hours which is crazy fast. I thought EMS was good with like 4-5 days but DHL delivery is way cheaper and way quicker in comparison (though, not quite as cheap as airmail or e-packet which might be the cheapest option for my proxy service...though, a lot is currently unavailable due to flight restrictions which is why I tried DHL in the first place). Last edited by Lucumo; Jan 28, 2023 at 06:42 PM. |
#7
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#8
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Shipping: Always not registered Airmail (which, since the COVID-19 mess started, is one of the few remaining methods available for Italy). Usually, I'd find the package abandoned on my doorstep 14-17 days after its order status changed to "Shipped" on the website (the most recent example is this, CDJapan shipped on January 6th and I found the box outside my house on January 20th, at 11:05 AM). In the order update e-mail one would receive upon shipment CDJapan says this: Quote:
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#9
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You guys seem pretty lucky, or maybe I'm in that lone shit country where they decided to rip everyone off. 15 eur surcharge per package is complete madness, so if paying VAT directly to the seller fixes the problem...
Though I see what they did here, they screw you double sometimes, then they introduce a way to always screw you but only once (VAT), and there you go, everybody in the EU pays VAT for all packages that contain merchandise, even if the declared value is 0,1 eur. I know all places have their own problems, but places with no VAT are just so good, it's like a dream that the only issue is making sure your package has no hand grenades inside and that it arrives undamaged. I love that americans have no clue about VAT, which for us europeans is a plague. Taxes in general are a plague (I'm italian, so I can sympathise with poor ilef and italian taxes in general ). So the general consensus from people from different EU countries is that paying VAT at checkout is a good thing (given that you were going to pay them one way or another)? I guess that's what you are already doing if you buy on eBay right? Has anyone had a case where the customs still asked you for VAT? And you had to explain that you had paid already? What proof did you have to show? |
#10
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In the US there is no VAT, but depending on state and even town there may be a sales tax (and only relatively recently it has become somewhat common for it to be enforced in e-commerce). There are states like Delaware that have no sales tax.
Personally I have no issue with VAT collected by customs, as long as it's correctly applied. In Portugal our national mail carrier sucks at distinguishing e-commerce from regular mail, and it's a pain in the ass to prove something was sent by a friend/family member from abroad. Regarding handling fees, before July 2021 the situation was much worse. Delivery by mail used to be €12 regardless of VAT amount. For private carriers like DHL and Fedex it seemed the sky was the limit and I never paid less than €30. Now when they have to collect VAT it's €5 for by mail and about €12 for private carriers. And this is only if the seller didn't use the IOSS system. Regarding IOSS I only had problems once, because the seller forgot to include the ID on the label. But fortunately the seller was able to provide it and customer support eventually cleared the package. It was a pain the ass, though. |
#11
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Anyway, I welcome the addition of IOSS since this should mean no more needless drives to the custom office no matter which shipping method one uses. Last edited by ff80c38; Feb 6, 2023 at 12:59 PM. |
#12
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It depends on what proxy service you use or possibly the shop etc. I once used a proxy service that apparently never filled out the forms properly, so for every package above the threshold I had to get to the customs office, do stuff there and then get back...which always took me 5-6 hours (or the alternative of paying 40€, mailing proof of purchase/invoice(s), only to get it delivered to me which I already did when I paid for international delivery...ffs). So I definitely do know the pains but I don't think a package goes to the customs office unless something is wrong. Ever since switching away from that particular service, I haven't had any issues. As for how long something is stuck in customs...I think it depends on the city. There are Frankfurt am Main and Leipzig and the latter seems to be "priority" customs. Packages from Amazon Japan always went through there and it was extremely quick. The DHL packages also always go through there. Airmail and such goes through Frankfurt am Main and it can take like 2-4 days(?). (I think by sea also went through Leipzig, at least the single time I used it after finding lots of artbooks for extremely cheap (800 Yen) and then paying ~15000 Yen in shipping fees. First and last time I did that...) /edit: Took screenshots of my latest delivery to show you the way it takes. Note that I don't live in Berlin, just the general service area. I think every part is covered by some large city. Previously, I lived in the middle of nowhere but got the international mail from a city ~80km away. All it changes is the time of the delivery (afternoon or evening instead of morning), not the date. Spoiler:
Last edited by Lucumo; Feb 7, 2023 at 01:07 AM. |
#13
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Good news about this and CDJapan, as far as I'm concerned, that is: I don't know if it was due to my order being a proxy shopping item, but I could choose whether I wanted to pay VAT in advance, or upon receiving goods (so, yeah, I can still get lucky and not pay extra).
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#14
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I can confirm that you can also choose whether or not to pay VAT in advance for normal items. I have a bunch of pending orders, so I'll eventually leave some feedback on how smoothly things went.
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#15
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Welp. Tried out paying VAT in advance and the item has actually taken longer than usual to arrive.
The last item I ordered before this system was put in effect shipped on January 6 (not registered airmail) and was in front of my door on January 10. The one with VAT shipped on February 27 and arrived yesterday, March 9, also, for the first time in a long while I had to sign a piece of paper. Oh, well, at least I actually received my item from the courier, instead of finding it abandoned. Onto other things, CDJapan's proxy shopping service is awesome, bless them… and Japanese in general, as a matter of fact: found a second hand version of an album, the product page stated there were some scratches on the disks, but honestly, they're pretty much brand new. If only everyone had the same level of care… |
#16
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On another note, I just had to manually declare my items for...no clue what reason. Maybe it was just bad luck. That apparently added ~14€ to the cost which is pretty annoying. Let's hope it won't happen again anytime soon. |
#17
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On the package it was clearly indicated VAT had been paid in advance, guy just needed a signature from me. A ten years old album (it celebrated its 10th anniversary recently, too) in pristine condition, with obi, but there's no sticker (not that I care about it, I already consider myself extremely lucky). Coupled with this, which cost me a small fortune back then, my favourite DYNASTY WARRIORS are taken care of. Last edited by ilef; Mar 11, 2023 at 07:42 AM. |
#18
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He he, congratulations. It's always good to complete something *looks sadly at Excel sheets with missing spots* |
#19
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Last time in Kyoto there was a Same! Same! Same! album I wanted, but of course it was wrapped in a plastic bag, so I went to the cashier and he told me the disc had a big scratch on the disc. He showed me and there was a small faint scratch that was barely visible, so I laughed and paid.
On the other hand MANY MANY YEARS AGO in a galaxy far far away, I bought a Konami laserdisc from Yahoo! Auctions Japan and it when I received it, it was cracked in two. The sleeve and booklet and packaging box were perfectly fine so it was broken already, and he took photos in a way to not show this, like the disc only half taken out from the sleeve. I was so angry back then. And I have to say, it happens way too much that Japanese sellers don't mention or show sunfaded spines. I have at least 10 albums heavily faded, including an Area 88 that looked perfect in the photos, of course no spine photos, so it was a lottery and I lost. They aren't as careful and detailed as the collective universal mind makes them to be - this is my experience with Yahoo in almost 20 years of purchases. They're OK, but I take much better photos when I sell items, even cheap ones. I find lots of super expensive items on Yahoo with piss-poor photos that don't even show the back of a manual or just show a general photo taken 10 meters away. I find this highly disrespectful, especially when the starting price is high and the seller knows he has something rare that will attract many bids. Man I feel like I'm always complaining. |
#20
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Complaining is perfectly fine, I think, as long as you also mention the good examples. Like, while there are people who are scum and hide damage etc deliberately, there are also people who point out every single little detail. For everyone who posts bad photos of items they are selling, there are a number who do excellent photos in good quality. Of course, for expensive items, proper photos are a must.
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#21
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Well, I can't say I've had too many experiences in dealing with this sort of stuff; for all these years I sent money to a close friend and asked her to purchase Japan-exclusive things and send them later.
The few times I dealt personally with sellers on YAJ, I used to be called: "Fucking scum who steals our goods" and the likes, look on the bright side - still better than not receiving an answer at all. |
#22
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Haha, yeah, some Japanese have problems selling to foreigners. Not too long ago a seller had several items I was interested in, cheap starting price too...and when I won the first auction, he just deleted the bid later and blocked the account. Personally, I don't understand how Yahoo Actions Japan allows that kind of stuff. A won auction is a won auction for me. PS: Communicating with sellers should be done in Japanese only, otherwise it's extremely rude. Apparently, not doing that is a widespread problem, at least looking at the descriptions of products where it's explicitely expressed that there will be no English communication. In such cases, I'm obviously on the Japanese's side. (And it's not just a problem in Japan.) |
#23
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While it sucks to lose an item because the seller decides he doesn't want to sell to you even though you would pay in time and provide a Japanese shipping address... I don't really blame them. I just live with that risk
Luckily I don't remember having WON auctions cancelled. Just a few times while the auction was still running, I had my bids cancelled, but most of the time the bid won't even register - some sellers have blacklisted proxies/shops and bids don't go through at all. I think that's fair, as long as you bid early enough, you have time to find an alternative or ask someone to use their personal account. That reminds me to always put a small bid as early as possible, to see if it goes through. |
#24
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I feel a bit sad about annoying my friend with such issues, but she gets a kick out of doing this, plus, she reminds me that they be can true dickheads to foreigners, in her own words: "Those assholes can die, Gabe. Money is money." |
#25
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Yeah, getting bids of running auctions cancelled is not unheard of. Everyone who has been importing for a while has encountered it at some point. And that is fine. But like I said, a won auction is a won auction. Here, the buyer would probably be protected by law, considering that a contract was established. Quote:
Ah, such strongs words. But it's good to have someone to fall back on. And if she is fine with it, no worries. After all, it's probably not a thing that happens too regularly. I would start worrying if her living space becomes a warehouse, with your packages piling up :P (My package where I had to manually declare the items and paid an additional ~14€ just arrived. Turns out one item sold as "used" was actually new. To be fair, it looked like that from the three limited pictures, so I took a gamble. While the price was pretty expensive for a used version, it was cheap for a new copy (not that there was a new copy to come by for years until recently). And the shrinkwrap is in an expected condition for a 20+ year old item.) |
#26
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Nowadays I mostly ask her to buy Comiket and digital stores stuff, she just stores the former in my room in the meantime, I'd say her living space is fine. =D Good to hear about your package. Stay safe, folks and good luck. |
#27
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I can also confirm that CDjapan is working fine with IOSS. My package shipped on February 27th and arrived on the 9th of March with only a signature required for the tracking service. You guys have no idea how less of a pain in the ass this means for countries in the EU where customs are strictly enforced. And to think now I can also use their proxy service without also having to consider dealing with customs *chef's kiss*
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#28
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Never had much issues with declaring my stuff with orders (which literally is every order nowadays) from Japan or other foreign countries, but IOSS does help me a bit, for latest order just had to add few info that finnish customs didn't get from package, and that was it, they knew that I had paid VAT already so it was easy and fast.
__________________
vgmdb - serious business, only.
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#29
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----
Last edited by ramokoff; May 28, 2023 at 09:04 AM. |
#30
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Not related to VGM, but I sent a mini desktop PC back home in Europe and they charged me 30 eur for the custom declaration "administrative work", on top of asking me to pay VAT of course.
So not only you pay shipping, insurance premium, VAT, but also an arbitrary fee to the postal company to send you a letter asking to pay VAT (that's 30 eur for a letter with 2 sentences on it). We call it "pizzo" in italian, that's money you pay to a criminal organisation so they leave you alone or deliver something you paid for already. |
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