VGMdb
Go Back   VGMdb Forums > Discussion > Video Game Music Discussion > Album Discussions
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old Oct 22, 2012, 07:26 PM
MiLO's Avatar
MiLO MiLO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 604

I have a proposition to make: maybe it's a good idea to start accepting Digital Booklets in scans section of an album. It's becoming a rather common practice for digitally released albums to have digital booklets.

An option to accept .PDF format would have to be implemented.

For example the booklet for Halo 4 is 1.20 MB in size and has a whole bunch of information about arrangement/orchestration credits.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:05 PM
Efendija's Avatar
Efendija Efendija is offline
VGMdb Staff
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Serbia
Posts: 2,009
Default

Read about it:
http://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5848&page=3
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Oct 23, 2012, 05:30 AM
Myrkul's Avatar
Myrkul Myrkul is online now
VGMdb Staff
VGM Artist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: France
Posts: 3,124
Default

Am I the only one to think such list of performers in the performer tab is useless ?

I don't mind having the musicians in the notes, but there it's a bit too much.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Oct 23, 2012, 05:42 AM
Efendija's Avatar
Efendija Efendija is offline
VGMdb Staff
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Serbia
Posts: 2,009
Default

Kid Icarus, Final Fantasy 13 have large performers fields too (to name some examples). It doesn't look pretty, but all of the performers contributed to the score.

Not to mention there are 3 groups with associated units here and a fourth group without them, so it was enough of a pain to sort them all out and not to miss something, so please spare me the lectures...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Oct 23, 2012, 01:07 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrkul View Post
Am I the only one to think such list of performers in the performer tab is useless ?

I don't mind having the musicians in the notes, but there it's a bit too much.
I have thought this for a long time. What does listing them out like that really serve? It's a bit ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:04 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 2,026
Default

I for one like seeing this kind of wall of artists, since it makes the entry immensely rich, and that's what an entry is supposed to be if we're filling info which is missing. Plus, it indicates we have some dedicated members who spend several hours in contributing to VGMdb. I hope nobody is discouraged to transcribe every performer, just because some members hate it and see no sense (I rather respect and appreciate their work). I used to have some times and added tons of artists several, and while it may be overwhelming, I don't feel bad about it!

One immediate solution I think of is we could fold each member into one unit and write some Javascript codes to open up them when clicked.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:26 PM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,644
Default

I very much appreciate complete and precise performer credits. It's very intereresting to just discover new albums by skimming through the list of performers.

Concerning the soundtrack: I dunno. I've listened through the whole album and the only track where I thought "Woah, this sounds kinda nice and interesting" was 117. And it turns out that it's not even by Davidge. As for the rest, standard western RCP scoring style if you ask me -- especially the first half of the album (the second is a tad better). Even the use of choir/chorus can't convince me here. My idea, let Kazuma Jinnouchi score HALO 5
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:31 PM
Efendija's Avatar
Efendija Efendija is offline
VGMdb Staff
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Serbia
Posts: 2,009
Default

Some important dude at 343 industries refers to Jinnouchi as in-house composer, (scan here) so I don't really know why he hasn't scored more pieces... Overall it's not a bad soundtrack, it can be appreciated more if you don't connect it with Halo world much xD

btw to the people who think that all performers aren't needed, it looks ridiculous or whatever, I don't give a fuck. Cheerzzz
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:57 PM
Foxhack's Avatar
Foxhack Foxhack is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico
Posts: 514
Default

JESUS THAT'S ONE HELLA BIG WALL OF CREDITS

Uh. I would like it if there was a way to hide them behind a clickable link or something.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Oct 24, 2012, 07:52 PM
MiLO's Avatar
MiLO MiLO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 604
Default

Well, technically any album that involves orchestra can have a giant list of performers.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 12:32 AM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 813
Default

It makes it immensely rich and immensely messy. I really like Cedille's and Foxhack's ideas, I would like to hide it... seriously it's just grotesque.

I like having complete and precise data, but I would also like it to... look nice somehow? That is so ugly. I realize that it's by design of the site because it's how we list artists so that they're clickable, but... isn't there a better way?

Let's make the text Performed by on the left a javascript link, and when you click it then it displays everything.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:12 AM
TerraEpon's Avatar
TerraEpon TerraEpon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Default

I think it's silly to list each individual musician because they happen to get a credit in the booklet. The performer is "The Chamber Orchestra of London", that's all that's really nessesary. The recent trend of listing individual performers on US-based soundtracks is I believe a result of licencing agreements that help keep costs down (though I'm surprised to see it for a British orchestra). It seems pretty silly to list everyone because they happen to be listed in the booklet.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:49 AM
Efendija's Avatar
Efendija Efendija is offline
VGMdb Staff
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Serbia
Posts: 2,009
Default

All the people here, as in every live orchestra, did their part, they performed the music, they always deserve to be listed. Also it doesn't matter if it's a western or let's say Japanese orchestra (it goes without saying, but hey, I don't remember people complaining so much about some massive performance credits on certain FF albums).

This also reminds me of a concept of lower values or whatever - if there's a vocal soloist (bonus points if the person is already famous) - sure, let's list him/her, they are important, but all other people from a live orchestra, even if they are listed in booklet - fuck them, who cares about them, it's like they didn't exist. REALLY? Then let's isolate all of their performances and you're left with almost nothing.

Many of you people like to see just the composer data, famous vocal performers and that's it. But when members of orchestra actually get credited for their professional work, just like the composers, vocalists etc, you cry & cry because you don't like wall of text.

Then let there be no more live orchestras ever, bring only the synths from now on, you happy?

Fucking hilarious.

Last edited by Efendija; Oct 25, 2012 at 07:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:38 AM
TerraEpon's Avatar
TerraEpon TerraEpon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Default

You're missing the point. Of course they did their part. But if you pick up 99.6% of CDs that have an orchestra permorning, the orchestra will be listed and nothing else. MAYBE the first violinist if it's a British label, and a part that features here and there. It's not that they aren't important, it's that they are part of the whole.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:59 AM
ilef's Avatar
ilef ilef is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
You're missing the point. Of course they did their part. But if you pick up 99.6% of CDs that have an orchestra permorning, the orchestra will be listed and nothing else. MAYBE the first violinist if it's a British label, and a part that features here and there. It's not that they aren't important, it's that they are part of the whole.
I've got the impression you somewhat shot yourself in the foot, by saying that

There aren't that many albums which list every musician involved, so where's the issue with giving credit where credit is due (and known)? I don't remember seeing this fuss with the Tekken 6 Soundtrack, and that has got quite a few performers listed, if I remember correctly.
__________________
Are you miserable? Good.
last.fm | Discord: Dark Slayer#8440
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:56 AM
Efendija's Avatar
Efendija Efendija is offline
VGMdb Staff
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Serbia
Posts: 2,009
Default

Nobody complained about Tekken 6. And some other cases too.
Nobody complained about SHIN HIKARI SHINWA PALUTENA NO KAGAMI ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK which is almost an equivalent to this. The soundtrack was praised etc. and I don't say anything about that because it was a great soundtrack.

But now all hell breaks loose.........

It is something which does make me fairly angry, because the performers are so useless (and other wording variations) only here. Also the submitter of such info who took his/her time to make an entry complete, (in this case, me) just created this useless shit and nothing more.
There's nothing wrong with similar past entries, but everything is wrong here LMAO

Again, I think everything is fine with similar past entries, as it is with this one and that won't change. When every person IS credited, when majority or even ALL of info IS available, I simply love such occasions, because nobody deserves their names to be seen as obsolete for something in which they have participated.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 10:05 AM
Secret Squirrel's Avatar
Secret Squirrel Secret Squirrel is offline
VGMdb Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 8,240
Default

You are crediting things correctly. If a lot of people worked on an album, there will be a lot of credits. We just need to modernize our page design to handle them more elegantly. So this is just a technical issue that can probably be solved when I get some of Blah's time.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 10:09 AM
Myrkul's Avatar
Myrkul Myrkul is online now
VGMdb Staff
VGM Artist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: France
Posts: 3,124
Default

It's probably because there's no line break betweens arrangers & performers, that makes this one even fattier.

Can't blame you for that.
Wish we could have at least some aeration there.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 11:47 AM
Foxhack's Avatar
Foxhack Foxhack is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico
Posts: 514
Default

I don't have a problem with giving credit where credit is due.

It's just that it's taking up too much space. :|
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 02:51 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efendija View Post
Nobody complained about Tekken 6. And some other cases too. But now all hell breaks loose. It is something which does make me fairly angry, because the performers are so useless. useless shit and nothing more. There's nothing wrong with similar past entries, but everything is wrong here LMAO
Uhhhhh, no, no, no, no, NO. It is ridiculous EVERYWHERE. We're just finally voicing it. I've thought this for a long time, but somebody finally said something and so then other people started saying something too. But oh:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efendija View Post
Also the submitter of such info who took his/her time to make an entry complete, (in this case, me) just created this useless shit and nothing more.
the source of your rage and the reason you are taking so much OFFENSE to this. Fucking comical, Efendija. People speak up about what they think of how we do something here at VGMdb and it's all about YOUR ENTRY and YOUR WORK and blah blah fuckin blah, no, it's about how bad it looks and that we could fix it. We're not talking about it in this soundtrack because it's the one you worked on and we're not talking about this soundtrack in particular. We're talking about EVERY SOUNDTRACK that does this, it looks absurd EVERY TIME.

Seriously, stop being such a baby. I like that we have full credits, I've actually already said that in this thread. "I like having complete and precise data", my words exactly. Yeah, list everything. Just make it clean, Jesus Christ, that's not a bullet to the head or anything.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 03:17 PM
Efendija's Avatar
Efendija Efendija is offline
VGMdb Staff
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Serbia
Posts: 2,009
Default

I would defend every entry in this regard, not because I've submitted the info, so if you think that's the reason of my "rage", you're wrong. What makes me raging is the fact that some would rather see the name of the unit (orchestra) without all the performers when they are specifically credited. No, I'm not saying that javascript folding suggestion does that (that is a nice suggestion btw), NO, I'm raging against the opinion to not include performers at all (meaning completely omitted from java or no java list even they are credited in the booklet, every last one of them)

AND, look who's talking: a person who can't possibly accept if her opinion isn't shared by other people and keeps raging a helluva lot a more than me - yes I'm talking about your Hamauzu's SaGa FRONTIER II score sucks and keeping on fighting vs everybody who deny you... Oh, the irony

Last edited by Efendija; Oct 25, 2012 at 03:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 03:42 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 2,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
I think it's silly to list each individual musician because they happen to get a credit in the booklet. The performer is "The Chamber Orchestra of London", that's all that's really nessesary. The recent trend of listing individual performers on US-based soundtracks is I believe a result of licencing agreements that help keep costs down (though I'm surprised to see it for a British orchestra). It seems pretty silly to list everyone because they happen to be listed in the booklet.
Aside of the "silly" calling, an interesting post. So, could we hire musicians at a cheaper price if we credit each name?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:42 PM
TerraEpon's Avatar
TerraEpon TerraEpon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Default

Not hiring the orchestra, but rather the so-called "reuse fees" for using it a second time (i.e. it's recorded for the game, and then 'reused' on CDs).
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 12:38 AM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efendija View Post
AND, look who's talking: a person who can't possibly accept if her opinion isn't shared by other people and keeps raging a helluva lot a more than me - yes I'm talking about your Hamauzu's SaGa FRONTIER II score sucks and keeping on fighting vs everybody who deny you... Oh, the irony
Man, really? That is so weak... it seriously takes a little more subtlety to goad me into raging than that. And you know my rage isn't based on whether or not people share my opinion. Phonograph expressed strong dislike for Atelier Iris multiple times and I didn't so much as quote him in that thread, because I don't care if he doesn't share my opinion, I know we all have our own. What I care about is when people try to discredit my opinion by using musical "knowledge" or "appreciation" as if the fact that they went to school and listened to somebody talk about song structure makes how they feel about music count more than how I feel about music.

No, it has nothing to do with different opinions, I respect that and I don't remember a time I outright flamed someone for liking or disliking something. I'll ask you to quote a time I raged against someone for sharing their honest opinion of the music. It has always been for flaming my opinion of something. It's two different things.

Seriously, raging is fun and engaging in heated "debates" is fun, but I don't want to be thought of as somebody who can't accept someone else's opinion, because that's not true.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 02:40 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,644
Default

I just wanted to chime in and add that I totally agree with Efendija's argument in post #13. If anything we just need a way to present the information in a more organized / visually pleasing way.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 06:43 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 2,026
Default

Yeah, I'm also with Efendija, but am surprised to know not a few members disliked adding credits just as much as the booklet provides. I was the very guy who's behind a couple albums mentioned as a "silly" case in this thread but I remember nobody has complained until now, and I actually think of the unit linking feature as one of the best betterments on this site. Anyway, although some members might've put it in a somewhat inconsiderate way, no need to take it personal; as mentioned again and again, it's not the issue of the submitter's side (but yeah, it's partly my fault, as I rarely help moderation ques that suck admins's time).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Oct 31, 2012, 09:06 PM
doppel9014 doppel9014 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 220
Default

There 6 downloadable bonus tracks for this CD, I am not sure a new entry should be added or just edit this entry.

Spoiler:
01 Armour 5:42
02 To Galaxy (Extended) 4:19
03 Foreshadow 3:49
04 Ascendancy (Matt Lange Remix) 5:45
05 Arrival (Norin & Rad Remix) 4:03
06 Green And Blue (Andrew Bayer Remix) 3:22
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Halo 4 Original Soundtrack Vol.2 LiquidAcid Album Discussions 1 May 10, 2013 02:46 PM
HALO 4 ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK VOL 2. Efendija Album Discussions 2 Mar 30, 2013 08:13 AM
7HZCD12001: HALO 4 ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK: SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION PerfectZer0 Album Discussions 9 Dec 11, 2012 12:30 PM
HALO 4 ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK REMIXES MiLO Album Discussions 0 Dec 6, 2012 12:32 AM
Halo 4 Original Soundtrack Efendija Album Discussions 1 Aug 23, 2012 04:51 PM