#1
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Submissions - Release Type (Publisher Type)
Current Guidelines
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#2
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I don't have anything, except for the removal of "Independent", which I thought had already been decided anyway.
Aside from that, let's open up for any changes that you have to propose. |
#3
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I think commercial, doujin/indie, and bootleg covers everything pretty well, so I don't have too much to add.
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#4
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I am also for the removal of Independent.
Everything else looks abslolutely fine at the moment. |
#5
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I'd rather appreciate that we offer a solid definition of what "doujin" and "indies" are, as I've felt the albums we intend to cover with those types on VGMdb are not exactly the same as we do in Eastern.
With "doujin", I think this borrowed word is designed to cover the albums that have copyright-infringing materials on this database, but in Eastern it means pretty much anything published from doujin circles or through the doujin activity so even if it only contains so called Original Works or they pay a licensing fee to JASRAC or to respective copyright-holders, it's still seen as doujin. For instance, now doujin turns into the publisher type, we can see this album as doujin because it's published by a doujin circle, despite no association with specific products. With "indies", I think in the broadest terms it means any publisher that isn't a large but still professional enough not to be seen as doujin such as SuperSweep, Basiscape Record, Cave, lots of Hentai labels but I think we normally consider those labels mentioned as "Commercial". The reason why I'm not so sure about merging "Independent" and "Doujin/Fanmade" publisher types back into "Doujin/Indie" is not only because what "Indie" represents isn't so clear but also because all of what little we've classified as "Independent" so far are something we previously considered as "Official" (now "Commercial"), and if the abolishment of "Independent" means we have to set them back to Official, I don't think we need to create "Doujin/Indie" to cover them. |
#6
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This is all stuff I've said before but...
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The main point is that doujin music is a type of independently published music, it's redundant (and confusing) to treat it as a separate publisher type. |
#7
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For reference, here are all of the Independent albums currently in the database:
http://vgmdb.net/search?do=results&id=60344 |
#8
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In any case, what makes it a bit confusing to me is that "Commercial" sounds like it should only be sold. A free "commercial" album is odd to me (for example http://vgmdb.net/album/9343 ). Also would say, my soundtrack for Kaleidoscope (theoretically professional as I got paid) be considered Doujin/fanmade even though I'm not part of a doujin group nor acted as a "fan". I'm actually the official rights holder too but OCR is acting publisher AND it's for free. It's a bit tricky. Similar issue with this: http://vgmdb.net/album/11721 , what would the publisher be? It's just me but I'm the official rights holder and a professional composer in theory and practice even though ties to OCR are clear. Once again, it's free. As a publisher I'm not at all professional nor am I getting paid but it IS the official source for the official soundtrack by the rights holder. Quote:
Also, if it isn't set in stone yet, Doujin/Fanmade should be Doujin/Indie to work better imo.
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#9
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One thing to keep in mind is that not every album is currently categorized correctly or consistently. Once we've got this figured out, we can fix all the irregularities.
Also, this field is the publisher type, not the publication type. A commercial publisher could still give something away for free without harming his status as a commercial publisher. |
#10
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Well that made things a lot easier in my mind. And it's their status as a PUBLISHER and not artist (in the case of artist = publisher) that sets the type? i.e. Nobuo Uematsu posting an MP3 album on his personal website for free. Doujin/Indie?
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Last edited by Another Soundscape; Apr 11, 2010 at 02:21 PM. |
#11
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Also with regards to the use of 'Commercial' I'll add that I suggested it over Official because there are official releases that are doujin/indie (such as soundtracks for doujin games.) The term [official] doesn't mean much as a publisher type. Exactly. |
#12
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Just saying that my counter-argument is that Commercial implies money but official can easily be both free and not. I agree that "official" makes no sense as a publisher type though. I really hope someone comes up with the ultimate option here because both are problematic and a bit confusing imo.
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#13
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#15
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So what is the fundamental difference between a professional publisher and an amateur publisher (including doujin and independent)?
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#16
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#17
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That was my original complaint but I don't have a good solution to it either.
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#18
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I haven't been following previous discussions on the 'Independent' designation very closely, but if it's removed what happens to releases that fall under: "A non-commercial album by a professional artist. The main distinction between this and Doujin is that doujin albums are published in a non-professional capacity."?
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#19
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This has all been said before, I'm not even sure why this is still being discussed given it was already polled. |
#20
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Basically we're just merging the two types back together. There's very few albums that fit the "Independent" type anyway, so not much justification to have it separate.
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#21
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What are some examples of entries that would fall under 'Indie'? Quote:
As far as I can see the only need for an Indie tag is because 'Commercial' infers that money needs to be payed. I think our old system made a better distinction between professional and non-professional artists in this way. |
#22
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#23
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Now individuals can sell music via iTune store or Amazon easily. If a VGM artist who owns the copyright of his music or the permission from the game company sells his soundtrack on iTunes store, isn't it classified as an orange "Doujin/Independent" album? (since aggregators is more like distributors).
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I think our current classification mixes up a couple different elements (publication, professionalism, legitimacy and whatnot), and that's why I'm not a big fan of it. Below is my quick attempt to classify; Type of Publication: Official, Independent/Indies Legitimacy of Release: Official/Indies, Doujin, Bootleg (this isn't correct, because some doujin artists pay fees to JASRAC). Professionalism: Official/Bootleg, Indies/Doujin (again, this isn't correct as some doujin artists earn their living costs). To put it simply, when Doujin is such an ambiguous concept, I don't think it's fair to bundle it with Indies just because both have self-publication in common. Last edited by Cedille; Apr 21, 2010 at 06:48 AM. |
#24
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I think the only distinction that needs to be made is between officially released and unofficially released: Official, Doujin, Bootleg. And I agree with your points as well, Cedille. |
#25
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#26
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Official = released by the people who own the rights, it's pretty simple I think. Doujin is what we've been using for fan arrangements and also for some original works albums by fan arrangers. If a person makes an original soundtrack for a game then it shouldn't matter if that person is also a fan arranger.
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#27
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#28
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So I can understand if it might be confusing for people who are used to the term in its original meaning, but it would be equally confusing the other way around. And since this is an English language site it seems more logical to go with the 'westernized' version. Quote:
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Last edited by seanne; Apr 21, 2010 at 03:01 PM. |
#29
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#30
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I was illustrating a point. Quote:
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It ultimately comes down to how the field should be used. I hold that it should be used for the publisher's status as a business (commercial, doujin/indie, bootleg) and others want it to determine the officialness of the album (official, fanmade, bootleg.) I don't know what the original intention for the field was. Last edited by Ira; Apr 21, 2010 at 03:12 PM. |
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