#91
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You're forgetting a fourth possibile candidate:
4. English title from the album (when it is present) I however would prefer to go with the first candidate (romanized from the spine) whenever possible. |
#92
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Well, yeah, I was just talking about this album.
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#93
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Quote:
edit: you mean the KICA-7760? |
#94
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The display should be what people will most easily recognize and in this case most of our traffic is western (or seems to be, Gigablah or Secret Squirrel, confirm/deny?) It's rather presumptuous to expect people to be familiar with romanizations and as stated by others we have the option to change how items are displayed. Personally I'm usually comfortable with romanized names, but if I did a search for a franchise I'm not too familiar with and got a bunch of names I don't recognize I know I would be confused and forced to sort through the results to figure out what is what and find what I'm looking for (you may be able to search for alternate titles, but the display is what's going to show up in search results.) Doing this kind of extra research isn't a bad thing, I like knowing this kind of stuff, but it's still inconvenient when you just want to find what you're looking for. Above all I believe we should be making the information accessible to people (part of why I continue to advocate for using information that may not be exactly what is printed on the album, but is more commonly used.)
To reiterate, because we have the option of changing how names are displayed the default should be what is most accessible. |
#95
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But the big question here is, would you go with the Akumajo Dracula X ~Nocturne in the Moonlight or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
I think I know what you'll answer, but the source of the name is still rather sketchy: we probably need to see it to make sure it doesn't say something like Devil's Castle Dracula X: Nocturne in the Moonlight, as implied by wiki. |
#96
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Quote:
Last edited by seanne; Mar 4, 2010 at 02:54 PM. |
#97
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That's the spot, but I didn't find the correct video, that one is for the US. p.s. I would display Akumajo Dracula X ~Gekka no Yasoukyoku~ and I would be confident that everyone would reach the album just by typing Symphony of the night in the search bar. I wouldn't translate Akumajo Dracula to Castlevania, since that would mean a loss of information for those titles which are called Castlevania in Japan. So if you want to avoid romanization at all costs I would go with Nocturne in the Moonlight. Last edited by The Gambler; Mar 4, 2010 at 03:59 PM. |
#98
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In my opinion, the most important thing is making sure all relevant information is presented rather than which order it's in. This also ties back to my question about what criteria is necessary for the use of "fan translations" to be included (even if as just line 4+: Alternate titles). SS's answer was only applicable to the specific example I mentioned... unless we have someone going around the entire Internet fixing titles to conform to VGMdb. >_>
__________________
hi~ |
#99
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I am getting lost, and you guys sure debate a lot..
I don't see why the previous idea by SS was not adopted: Quote:
There is no english title on front & obi covers! (yes there is one but it's on the back cover little spines.. so we will discard it and clearly state on our guiline that we are only using Front & Obi texts) Is there an english localized name title? Yes, it's Castlevania: Symphony of the night. So the whole KICA-7760 entry should be like Castlevania: Symphony of the night Original Game Soundtrack 悪魔城ドラキュラX~月下の夜想曲~ ORIGINAL GAME SOUNDTRACK Akumajo Dracula X ~Gekka no Yasoukyoku~ Original Game Soundtrack Akumajo Dracula X ~Nocturne in the Moonlight~ Original Game Soundtrack EDIT: i tryed to do a full synthese myself with the remarks so far.. it's big so pardon me but i made it as complete as possible! Quote:
There is a big difference with "Album Title" & "Game Title". Maybe we need to make a choice of order between the Front & the Obi cover as they often does not display the same thing (obi is more complete most of the time) Last edited by Myrkul; Mar 5, 2010 at 01:06 AM. |
#100
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In Secret Squirrel's draft, there was guideline on which was preferentially seen as the Original when both English and Japanese titles were printed, but don't you like that idea? Also, I still don't understand how much of discretion is allowed for the capitalization and the usage of spaces (which is one of the major causes of cyclical editing, but I feel like we're leaning toward all caps if it's printed). |
#101
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I forgot to ask for clarification on this, does this mean if there is an official transcription that it should be used for original or display, or what?
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#102
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Quote:
Quote:
Why this album: http://vgmdb.net/album/4772 should be displayed in a way that leads people to think it's something else, for example this album: http://vgmdb.net/album/12151 Last edited by The Gambler; Mar 5, 2010 at 09:47 AM. |
#103
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you suggest? To use Romanized title for every Japanese release? |
#104
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Quote:
Naturally there should be some discretion involved -- titles may sometimes be misprinted on albums, but it's just as likely for a title to be misprinted on an official website. I've even had cases where titles were inconsistent across the album booklet, the back of the album, and the website. (Though websites can also be the source of official corrections by the publisher) Quote:
I think this is more of a searchability issue. We don't necessarily have to display album titles that are tweaked to be accessible to a Western audience, as long as the Akumajo Dracula albums show up in searches for "Castlevania" and so on. However, I believe this can be mitigated by having the "associated product" field integrated with the multiple language title system and displaying it alongside search results. (That's a job for our future product database). |
#105
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Quote:
Interesting to know. |
#106
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This is getting complicated...
Quote:
As for whether using localized/romanized in display (when there is no English printed and such), I think this is best set case-by-case using localized only when it's appropriate, nobody will fully agree on certain titles but in like 90% of other albums nobody cares so go with romanized as a base, like it is now more or less (easier standard). When is appropriate it's up to debate (and I do think some albums are better with localized names), but when is *not * and just to clarify I'd go with: - the localized name isn't well known/minor series/comes too late/too different/not really the same game (Gyakuten Saiban [GBA] -> Ace Attourney [DS]) - the localized name is terrible/dumb/causes problems (Sengoku Basara > Devil Kings, Tales of Eternia > Destiny II) - the original name is clear enough for the user (Genso Suikoden > Suikoden) - the localized name changes between games (Yuusha no kuse ni > Holy invasion of provacy Badman > What did I to deserve this, my lord) - the locallzed and original names clash (some "Akumajo" albums were released as Castlevania in the US and Japan) - long series with some games not being released in the US (Jinguji Saburo -> Jack Hunter) And so on (this is just about display, you can always add US names to 3th+ line). No point in forcing all-localized-when-available and not necessarily the US name is more popular to the site's audience IMO. Plus I'd like to think the average user isn't going to flip out if searching for Castlevania shows Akumajo results... Also about JASCII in original titles like in this entry. I think we should convert them to ASCII, unless there is proof they are used in the publisher's website/printed/etc but this is rare. Maybe somebody knows if they are genuinely used, they all look like regular ASCII to me. To help Japanese users you could make that JASCII would be converted ASCII in searchs, so they actually show results. Ex.- searching for SAMURAI in JASCII gets few results. |
#107
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Quote:
AriaPrythem Skyprythem OriginalSoundTrack Mstyle Leaf Arrange Sound Track Sakura Note ~Ima ni Tsunagaru Mirai~ Oto no Okurimono We may have to follow the spine or the Obi where the separator can be found (like this album), but that's not always the case, and I think there are various ways we normally handle this kind of albums, and which comes first varies by the submitters. Then again, sorry if this is the very case we should use a colon (I just wondered if it was mostly intended for separating the game's subtitle). |
#108
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I agree that the colon as a separator would look odd in those cases. I think it's intended more for game subtitles. Also, we should use existing separators on the cover or obi.
Also, I apologize for not moving things forward on this topic; I just don't have an answer that I'm satisfied with yet. |
#109
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Which specific questions are still up for debate? The discussion is pretty verbose right now, so it's a bit hard for me to follow.
__________________
hi~ |
#110
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I believe you're going a bit far by considering any localized titles as the "best display name", these albums were NOT released under those titles so they should NOT be considered the main display name, just like any translated tracklist should not be considered the main tracklist.
romaji titles really aren't the main titles either but it is romaji and using it would make much more sense than any translation or localization choice Last edited by lgb; Mar 12, 2010 at 01:14 PM. |
#111
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The Original and Romanized album title options are already there. Why you want to eat your cake and have it too, I don't know.
__________________
hi~ Last edited by Kaleb.G; Mar 12, 2010 at 01:51 PM. |
#112
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The upcoming improved system will be more language agnostic; it'll allow you to differentiate the original tracktitles from the "default" tracktitles (which just means the translation that displays by default based on the user's language preference). Same with album titles.
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#113
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Quote:
__________________
hi~ |
#114
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it's "have your cake and eat it too", and why exactly would you have a cake without eating it? oh wait, the phrase itself is based on weird principles.
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#115
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Well, you can reword it as "eat your cake without losing it". Semantics schlemantics.
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#116
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Quote:
The way I phrased it is more like the original quote, which actually makes more sense to the casual reader.
__________________
hi~ |
#117
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I've made a few adjustments to the instructions for title. I think we made good progress on this one, even if we didn't come to any consensus for a rigid set of guidelines defining each line. We attain some flexibility, and can always tighten the rules if it becomes necessary.
Quote:
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#118
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Btw, if we should refrain from using a translated track name in the note field, isn't it even less preferable to use it as the display title? (unless it's already super popular among Internet and the translation will remain fixed). Now we cover anime, there're lots of J-pop singles to add.
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#119
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We don't literally translate a game's name, because we consider it a sort of proper name. Should we treat the titles of OP and ED themes the same way, and leave them in Romaji (particularly when it shows up in the album title)? I haven't thought much about this problem, and I know that there are examples of these ways in some of our albums. |
#120
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Well, Dag suggested we should refrain from writing a translated track name in the note field, because the translation may be changed later.
So I had to wonder if we shouldn't use a translated track name as the album title. |
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