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  #61  
Old Aug 25, 2012, 11:36 AM
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This album is starting to make more sense to me. I haven't read up on the album much, but from listening, I have a hunch that these "arrangements" were not made recently for the sake of releasing an album, but rather they might actually be the original versions for the Super CD release, before they had to be implemented into the SNES SPC700. It would explain the somewhat crude sound... I mean a lot of the samples are the same but without the shortloops, lower sample rates, velocity layers and DSP. It doesn't seem right that these were made recently. The album title Genesis seems to play into that theory as well.

The only thing is the album is candidly advertised as an "arrange album"...

edit: translated that block of text on the official site and I think it's confirming my guesses... probably should have read that to begin with eh? Well, it certainly changes my perception of this release.
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  #62  
Old Aug 25, 2012, 12:55 PM
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The site just says that he took the data from his old HDDs and "resurrected" it keeping the flavor. It was advertised in moon as the original midi data played through today's audio things (if it's just MIDI it needs to be re-played...).
Kikuta talks about how he did the original SoM here.


As for me, I'd rather play the originals. A more reasonable approach IMO would be Kikuta re-doing the music in styles/samplings he would use today or used before (SD3-style?), or at least the whole OST in this style.
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  #63  
Old Aug 26, 2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
today's audio things
Quote:
90s roland hihats and power snares
seems odd to me.
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  #64  
Old Aug 26, 2012, 08:54 AM
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Sorry, that's Greek to me. I don't know a thing about synthesizers.

I'm just saying they say it's being replayed/recorded today, regardless the exact Audio Things (DAW) Kikuta used, as opposed to old recordings.
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  #65  
Old Aug 26, 2012, 10:23 AM
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It still needs to be /recorded/ even if it's using the tech from the 90s.
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  #66  
Old Sep 6, 2012, 08:00 PM
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Just listened to it. Definitely worse than the OST, one of the worst albums marked as 'arrangment' I have listened to.
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  #67  
Old Sep 10, 2012, 12:22 AM
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I think it would actually make more sense to call this a pre-arrange album, or something of the sort.
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  #68  
Old Sep 10, 2012, 06:39 AM
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Yeeeaaah, I'm not digging this album at all.
It just sounds bad.
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  #69  
Old Sep 20, 2012, 10:20 PM
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A musical arrangement is defined as "a piece of music that has been adapted for performance by a particular set of voices or instruments", so calling it an arrange album isn't misleading. If it had been called "Secret of Mana Remix Album", then that would have been misleading.
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  #70  
Old Sep 21, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
A musical arrangement is defined as "a piece of music that has been adapted for performance by a particular set of voices or instruments", so calling it an arrange album isn't misleading. If it had been called "Secret of Mana Remix Album", then that would have been misleading.
No. An arrangement describes changes at the musical level. This album only makes changes on a technical level. It's not an adaptation for different instruments, just a resynthing.
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  #71  
Old Sep 21, 2012, 04:20 PM
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I bet Kikuta rearranged the placement of his synthesizers for this one!
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  #72  
Old Sep 21, 2012, 08:43 PM
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That definition doesn't cover arrangement very well -- one can play something on another instrument with NO arranging, and one can play an arrangement on the same exact instrument(s).
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  #73  
Old Sep 22, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Yeah, I'm with Chris and Terra on this one. I'm still excited about this album, but calling it an "arrange" album is a bit of a stretch. Based on what I've heard (and comments here), it really sounds more like a synth swap: same compositions, same arrangements, new recording with different hardware. That doesn't bother me, but it certainly isn't what I was anticipating. Maybe I'll be able to grab a cheap copy with all the disappointment that seems to be surrounding this release. XD
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  #74  
Old Sep 23, 2012, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
That definition doesn't cover arrangement very well -- one can play something on another instrument with NO arranging, and one can play an arrangement on the same exact instrument(s).
The Japanese VGM definition of arrangement is more liberal than the official definition of arrangement, which in its strictest sense deals specifically with adapting a piece for different instruments.
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  #75  
Old Sep 23, 2012, 09:45 PM
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Eh, not really. An arrangement specifically refers to changing the music so that it's /different/ while at the same time retaining the original to a point that it's recognizably the same piece.

One can take a piano piece and arrange it, while keeping it a piano piece. Usually if there's little changed but instrumentation it's called a transcription (though that's a fine line too).

But anyway, this isn't even that, this is more like 'enhanced'.
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  #76  
Old Sep 24, 2012, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Lunar View Post
This album is starting to make more sense to me. I haven't read up on the album much, but from listening, I have a hunch that these "arrangements" were not made recently for the sake of releasing an album, but rather they might actually be the original versions for the Super CD release, before they had to be implemented into the SNES SPC700. It would explain the somewhat crude sound... I mean a lot of the samples are the same but without the shortloops, lower sample rates, velocity layers and DSP. It doesn't seem right that these were made recently. The album title Genesis seems to play into that theory as well.

The only thing is the album is candidly advertised as an "arrange album"...

edit: translated that block of text on the official site and I think it's confirming my guesses... probably should have read that to begin with eh? Well, it certainly changes my perception of this release.
So, this is something like Masato Nakamura's original tapes for Sonic OST (as heard in disc 2 of POCS-21032~4) ? Or is the change hardly noticeable by a casual listener?
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  #77  
Old Sep 26, 2012, 01:06 AM
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That's how I understand it, yeah. At the very least, it doesn't sound like these songs were produced recently... it's basically the same sounds as used in the game except without the shortloops and reduced quality and other compromises. I'm wondering if this is how the songs would have sounded on the cancelled Super CD release. I am speculating somewhat.
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  #78  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
Usually if there's little changed but instrumentation it's called a transcription (though that's a fine line too).
Transcribing generally refers to the process of taking a performed piece of music and notating it as sheet music.

What have your music instructors been teaching you guys?
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  #79  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 01:14 AM
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Both definitions are correct and widely used. TerraEpon's definition is widely used in classical music, while Kaleb's definition is more often used in jazz/pop/rock music.

Quote:
What have your music instructors been teaching you guys?

Last edited by Chris; Oct 1, 2012 at 01:19 AM.
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  #80  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleb.G View Post
What have your music instructors been teaching you guys?
Total tangent: I wish I had money and free time to just go study music at university again like I did my freshman year of undergrad.
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  #81  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleb.G View Post
What have your music instructors been teaching you guys?
Enough that I could get a degree in music history.
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  #82  
Old Oct 3, 2012, 07:39 AM
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Kikuta really is the man - this album has generated a level of controversy almost on par with Secret of Mana+. (For all the wrong reasons, some of you will say - but it's a fact that almost twenty years since Seiken 2 his music stays within people's minds).
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  #83  
Old Oct 15, 2012, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
Enough that I could get a degree in music history.
I learn something new every day!

I was ready to say this seems on the same level as some games' "Full Sound Version" (albeit with missing tracks), but after reading this interview, I take it back:
http://www.destructoid.com/secret-of...a-236262.phtml

I'm actually a bit in awe that he was able to replicate the timbre of the instruments so accurately but with upgraded quality.
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Last edited by Kaleb.G; Oct 15, 2012 at 10:38 PM.
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  #84  
Old Jan 18, 2013, 08:56 AM
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Say what you will, this one will stay in my ipod forever.
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  #85  
Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:12 AM
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poor ipod ;p
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  #86  
Old Jan 19, 2013, 01:54 PM
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Yeah, sorry, this is a huge stepdown from the in-game version.
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  #87  
Old Jan 19, 2013, 03:11 PM
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Since everybody is chiming in on this, I guess I will too. :P

I haven't heard any of this album, but IMO, Secret of Mana is probably the most overrated soundtrack in all of VGM. It has a few good songs but I dunno, just doesn't resonate well with me. "/
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  #88  
Old Jan 19, 2013, 06:23 PM
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^I'm just the opposite: I don't think SoM's music is talked about enough (and it really isn't). It's incredibly innovative for its time, and frankly still is. Nothing really sounds like Kikuta in his prime (I include SD3 and Soukaigi in this).
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  #89  
Old Mar 7, 2013, 01:33 AM
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bump.

this could have been the greatest music-related thing ever but apparently The Powers want it to be a total fucking ripoff. i guess only sega can deliver the goods, and i hate those demos.

FUCK, man.

on the other hand, this makes it pretty clear that we need a new word for what people like to call "arrange" these days. even if it's something as simple as "new composition". i don't fucking know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleb.G View Post
I bought this album mostly to support Kikuta-san and have a collectable, but I'm in the same boat with Jodo Kast in that I liked the sound of the SNES and synth upgrades are nice, much like with the Remastered Tracks Rockman Zero and following albums.
rtrz isn't really a synth upgrade. the zx tunes are though.

Last edited by Despatche; Mar 7, 2013 at 01:46 AM.
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  #90  
Old Aug 21, 2015, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz Lunar View Post
I haven't read up on the album much, but from listening, I have a hunch that these "arrangements" were not made recently for the sake of releasing an album, but rather they might actually be the original versions for the Super CD release, before they had to be implemented into the SNES SPC700.
I don't think so. On his Reddit AMA he answered a question about the SNES CD add-on:
"Although there might have been discussions at the top regarding this, for myself and the development team that was never brought up so it is entirely possible that might just be a rumor and nothing else."
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