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  #1  
Old Nov 18, 2014, 07:12 PM
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I mainly want to ask the anime guys here -- these look like iTunes releases of the Ghibli soundtracks. Do you think they merit an album page, or should we just add iTunes links to the parent-most album?
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Old Nov 18, 2014, 09:57 PM
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You have that thing it can be added as a separate entry if considerable time passes which I know it's been used throughout the database. Here it's 30 or 10 years after the first release/last entered reprint so that criteria is good.

I don't remember reading the timeframe has ever been clearly defined though so you also approved this digital version for instance which came out only around year and a half after the CD. This supplementary time criteria for digital "reprints", any envisioned minimal value or just keep accepting on a case-by-case basis?

Last edited by Efendija; Nov 18, 2014 at 11:16 PM.
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Old Nov 18, 2014, 11:43 PM
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I wasn't sure, which is why I've left them in the queue.

Speaking of Ghibli releases, they were also released digitally on a number on other sites, like mora (http://mora.jp/special/ghibli/) and probably other ones too.
Do we only consider iTunes because they aim at the market outside of japan too?

In my personal opinion, if the release is the same a shop link in the original release is enough, regardless of how much time passed. Especially if they even recycle the cover from one of the reprints.
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 03:56 AM
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There are some earlier iTunes ones for Final Fantasy (and an example of a discussion here). They weren't removed over the years so you can't be sure what to do.
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 04:16 AM
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To be honest, if album has digital and physical release, both releases should get their own entries imo. (which would mean some indie/doujin stuff needs to be done)
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 04:44 AM
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^ I understand this angle, it's fair stuff. If someone owns only the digital version, they may want to add the corresponding digital entry to their collection. Then again, there's also a view the database doesn't need simple digital 'reprints' because they don't bring anything new, that's also fair and a measure to keep the total number of entries lower (CD reprints are always accepted though).

Sometimes it's ok to add the digital re-releases, sometimes it's not (more often the case).
And it's kinda circling around with many discussions forgotten until some new cycle arises (like this one).
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
To be honest, if album has digital and physical release, both releases should get their own entries imo. (which would mean some indie/doujin stuff needs to be done)
Almost every album is also released digitally nowadays. Do you mean we should create a digital entry for all of them? As the database works now, it just looks like a lot of useless data duplication. We don't create an entry for DVD enclosures since they're the same as the BD ones and I think this is kinda the same, at least when the digital release comes out at the same time.

That being said, digital releases are fine for me as long as there are clear guidelines about them. For example, what about the release date/price? Do we follow only iTunes and ignore other digital sellers that might have different date/price/formats?
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Last edited by Illidan; Nov 19, 2014 at 04:57 AM.
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
Almost every album is also released digitally nowadays. Do you mean we should create a digital entry for all of them? As the database works now, it just looks like a lot of useless data duplication. We don't create an entry for DVD enclosures since they're the same as the BD ones and I think this is kinda the same, at least when the digital release comes out at the same time.

That being said, digital releases are fine for me as long as there are clear guidelines about them. For example, what about the release date/price? Do we follow only iTunes and ignore other digital sellers that might have different date/price/formats?
Would data duplication matter? I mean, digital and physical are two different things, and for instance if I would only be getting iTunes releases, I would like to see my collection in here relflect that, without renaming folders etc. (vanity reason, but still).

And DVD/BD enclosures are bit different, as both do give the same exact bonus cd right? Thus they need just one entry.
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
Would data duplication matter? I mean, digital and physical are two different things, and for instance if I would only be getting iTunes releases, I would like to see my collection in here relflect that, without renaming folders etc. (vanity reason, but still).
From what I've seen most people keep physical and digital separated in folders so it would hardly matter. Still I get your argument, and it does make sense, but as it is now this would mean creating thousands of digital entries for basically no gain other than making collections look a bit better. And what if I want to differentiate between lossy and lossless digital releases? We need two or more entries depending on the format? I think the "reprint" system needs to be reworked to handle digital releases better, or at the very least we need some clear guidelines.

Quote:
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And DVD/BD enclosures are bit different, as both do give the same exact bonus cd right? Thus they need just one entry.
The content is the same but the actual disc can be different, as it's always the case with Aniplex for example. And obviously you have different package catalog/price/jan.
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Last edited by Illidan; Nov 19, 2014 at 01:31 PM.
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
And what if I want to differentiate between lossy and lossless digital releases? We need two or more entries depending on the format? I think the "reprint" system needs to be reworked to handle digital releases better, or at the very least we need some clear guidelines.
Well, lossy/lossless releases should be clumped together, especially if you can have the choice of getting either one when when buying, like you have on bandcamp and loudr.

Though, if majority of people don't want double entries, then entry should easily show that there's both CD and digital releases, without checking notes on the bottom or links on the side. Perhaps do something like:

Media Format CD/Digital

Or something to that format. And then notes either notifying if physical release was small print/limited print.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
The content is the same but the actual disc can be different, as it's always the case with Aniplex for example. And obviously you have different package catalog/price/jan.
Guess the split format thing would work on this too, split all of those examples and color code them even.
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  #11  
Old Nov 19, 2014, 03:37 PM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
Though, if majority of people don't want double entries, then entry should easily show that there's both CD and digital releases, without checking notes on the bottom or links on the side. Perhaps do something like:

Media Format CD/Digital
I think that's a good idea. Just add another property to the album information that tracks in which (like Raz named it) "media format" the album is available in:
- physical
- digital

Actually we already kind of have this. It's "Media Information", but it's currently limited to one format per entry. If we extend this to multiple formats per entry, then this should accurately track the information.
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Old Nov 20, 2014, 05:05 PM
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Yeah I don't know how to say it so it doesn't sound pushy, but it would be nice if you guys (staff) sat down and brew up some guideline for digital reprints. So it says in black n white what warrants a digital reprint and what doesn't. (like how much time has to pass after CD came out for digital reprint being accepted).
If CD and digital come out on the same day then it doesn't doesn't need a separate entry for digital - please put it in a guideline. Stuff like that.

Or if you want, open a discussion thread first, where members can leave input/ideas. Like what's been happening in this thread (and many others before that).

My personal opinion is that digital reprints are not needed. I don't agree with Razakin's reasoning to have them so that members can add it separately to their collection. But on the other hand I welcome his idea about -CD/digital- for Media format field.
Though on another hand from that, as of right now any CD page already reflects digital availability as it is. I mean honestly, is adding links to iTunes or Qobuz not enough? or saying in the notes that it was also released in digital. I see links say "iTunes (digital)" or something like that, and I think that's fine.
If it was released on the same day then I personally see no need to put it in the notes (that it's also in digital). But in cases like this one (Nausicaä) digital happened gazillion years after CD, so might as well document it in the notes for historical reasons - that such and such album was finally released in digital after so many years. That's it.

Point is we need a guideline.

Last edited by MiLO; Nov 20, 2014 at 07:11 PM.
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  #13  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 11:58 PM
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The way I see it, this is an actual content difference thing vs. a not wanting to go back and create a billion digital reprint entries thing. Both are valid sides to take.

We have how many thousands of CD reprints in the database right now? Or is it over ten thousand? What more do those entries honestly serve over a digital reprint entry? We're saying "this same order of songs and length of songs was sold in a different way at a different time". If that sounds like it warrants its own entry, then we've just said that digital reprints warrant their own entries. Otherwise, CD reprints don't. I mean yeah, the artwork is slightly different, okay. You could include the artwork from a reprint in the original entry and not have a million entries. It becomes a little illogical not to add digital reprints if we're adding any other kind of reprint because they're all reprints. Saying one is somehow, like... better or more important than another? I don't get it.

Of course, if we want to add digital reprints, then yeah, we have a lot of work to do. Maybe we don't want to do all that work, and in fact is it even possible? What do we do - go to every single entry of the tens of thousands of entries one by one to see if it may have had a digital reprint at some point, and then add it? It sounds like too much work, and then if it only gets half complete, we still have the problem of people being confused as to which way is correct, add them or not, since only half have them...

I say probably don't go with digital reprints and just add the category in, but that's kind of from a "do less work in the database" standpoint, because the actual correct thing to do would be to add them if we're adding any reprints at all.
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  #14  
Old Nov 21, 2014, 09:48 AM
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I second Rakazin's idea, though I don't know if it is doable in the short-term without doing an heavy modification of the current system.

@Hellacia: I think physical reprints are more important, mainly because the scans in later prints can have additional/fixed up credits, and having the catalog/date/price/barcode/media format is useful for cataloging purposes. With a digital reprint entry, you're essentially just adding a date/price, and they way it works now it may only reference 1 shop instead of all of them.
Though it's true that we could just dump all scans in the parent album, it's not something doable with the current system, just imagine an album with 5 reprints having ~50 scans each. The front cover from the digital reprint is another thing, since it's just ONE scan.
A lot of physical reprints (especially for old albums) also have very limited printing runs, so it's very useful to know when they're going to come out in order to plan your purchases, while this isn't an issue with digital since they can't go oop.

Either way I'm not saying to completely ditch digital reprints, it's just that the way it works now (creating a child album) feels unneeded for what they bring to the database. If there was an easier, specialized way to add them (like what Razakin suggested) I wouldn't have any objection.
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