|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
#1
|
||||
|
||||
Investigation : in search of the oldest orchestral video game score
Hello everyone !
I've been a fan The Lost World and Heart of Darkness game scores, and I have believed for many years that they were the oldest games with a symphonic scores. At that time, I logically thought "I’m really living the beginning of fully orchestral scores in video games". I've made very deep searches about older symphonic game scores and I realized I could'nt be further from the truth… Let me share with you my discoveries of oldest orchestral video game scores that I could find during my long searches. 1983 : Cliff Hanger video game including orchestral music, though not composed for the game. 1984 : Badlands video game including partly orchestral original music, not fully orchestral but still an important milestone ! November, 1989 : Pacific Theater of Operations/Teitoku no Ketsudan composed by Hiroshi Miyagawa would become the first video game that could be played with a synchronized fully orchestral game music Compact Disc (on PC-88 computers) and then in April, 1990, it would be released as the very first game to include a fully orchestral score in its FM Towns CD-Rom release. December, 1990 : Wizardry V Heart of the Maelstrom composed by Kohei Tanaka includes a fully orchestral score in its FM Towns CD-Rom release. 1992 : Far East of Eden II/Tengai Makyou II Manji Maru composed by Joe Hisaishi would be the first console video game including a partly orchestral score. July, 1993 : Far East of Eden/Tengai Makyou Fuun Kabuki Den composed by Kohei Tanaka would be the first fully orchestral score composed for a video game console (PC-Engine). Fall, 1993 : Voyeur composed by Garry Schyman is the first western original video game including fully orchestral music. Last edited by Goldlink; Mar 9, 2020 at 09:44 AM. |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
As far as pre-Lost World orchestral scores (Lost World being the one to claim being the first one, and it WAS released before Heart of Darkness despite the former being recorded first), there's the original Sakura Wars (1996) which has about 20 minutes of orchestral music. I actually knew of no others before that, so this is a fscinating post.
I'd love to hear most examples of other early ones. I'm actually very surprised to see something Western in 1993. I could understand some Japanese-only stuff being unknown to tthe ones who made the claims for Lost World and Heart of Darkness....though granted CD-I was pretty obscure itself. So eh. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Thanks for your reaction !
I've heard of Sakura Wars, but I never could find this on CD or in music files. Maybe the original game CD can play the audio files on a regular CD player like some of the Saturn CD-Roms at the time. I would be very curious to hear more about it. It's too bad Voyeur wasn't released on CD either. They both are part of video game music history, but no one seems to care. Fortunately the Far East of Eden series was released on CD, even of the soundtrack CD for the third one is hard to find. I know for sure that the PC-Engine original CD-Rom can play the music files because I own it. A great game too by the way ! |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
EDIT : New crucial information about Voyeur release date.
Considering the precise release date of Voyeur is nowhere to be found, and to be perfectly sure Far East of Eden/Tengai Makyou Fuun Kabuki Den came first before Voyeur as the oldest fully orchestral original video game score, I managed to find an article in the Time Magazine written by Philip Elmer-Dewitt on Sept. 27, 1993 : "In the next few weeks, Propaganda Films will debut Voyeur, a new kind of adult-oriented interactive movie" So Voyeur clearly came out after the month of September 1993 and therefore a few months after Far East of Eden. Far East of Eden/Tengai Makyou Fuun Kabuki Den is now the only candidate for being the first original video game score including fully orchestral music. Last edited by Goldlink; Jun 23, 2018 at 01:29 PM. |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
EDIT : A new chapter in my adventures. And now the oldest video game fully orchestral score is from 1990... I couldn't go that far before ! You can read all about it above in my edited story.
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
This has been a very interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to research… And also sharing what you found out.
Learned something new about the man responsible for writing The Adventures of Alundra's music. |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Thank you for the insightful research. Kohei Tanaka is the man! Since the original Wizardry V was released in 1988, FM Towns could have been recorded even before the 90s.
Here is also a very insightful podcast about the video game career of Kohei Tanaka, from the 90s to Gravity Daze 2: http://www.supermarcatobros.com/podc...0-kohei-tanaka For interest, lots of Japanese game scores from that era (early 90s), especially for PC-Engine, sometimes had live-recorded orchestral pieces/scores: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEmKzAJK_EI&t=3s Last edited by VIN; Aug 14, 2018 at 03:10 AM. |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Thank you both for your feedback !
I'm surprised nobody ever presents Kohei Tanaka as the pioneer of the first orchestral video game scores in the 90's : Wizardry V (1990), Far East of Eden 3 (1995), Gulliver Boy (1995), Sakura Wars (1996). It's certainly the main distinction that his musical career in video games bears. Let's listen to all these musical treasures and spread the word to make them live forever. Thanks for the podcast, I'm gonna listen to this carefully. The game in your youtube video, Galaxy Fraulein (1995), is a great exemple of early orchestral game scores as well. Too bad the orchestral cues cannot be ripped from the game without the sound effects. Last edited by Goldlink; Aug 14, 2018 at 08:47 AM. |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Kohei Tanaka is an absolutely underrated and overlooked MASTER. Here he is conducting one of his early 90s scores: Bastard Symphony, IV. Movement
Even without the live orchestra, what he achieved within the soundchip limitations of the era is astounding: Bounty Sword: Staff Roll And here he is recording Gravity Daze 2 There's also an insightful podcast about Gravity Daze that illustrates why his work for this game franchise is among the best Video Game music ever written: Gravity Daze 1+2, why its so damn good Keep in mind being a video game composer is only 50% of his career. The other half is him rocking the house as an Anime composer, writing full symphonies to smashing musicals. A full catalogue of his work, including all symphonies and musicals you can find here: The music of Kohei Tanaka: Symphonies, Symphonic Poems, Medleys and Musicals Kohei Tanaka is not only a pioneer in video game music, he was the very first orchestral/symphonic composer who made a distinction in being an "Anime and Game" composer instead of a "film composer" and who is nowadays officialy recognized by the Japanese government as the musical representative of the Anime and Game industries in Japan and often invited to diplomatic state affairs. Spoiler:
In essence he is every persona a composer can have in one: A serious concert composer, a Jazz/Lounge player, a Rock musician, a Game composer, an anime composer and a film composer. His influences are as vast as his scores, from Ennio Morricone to Jerry Goldsmith to Basil Poledouris to John Williams to classical composers like Beethoven and Prokoviev to various American Jazz musicians and Rock Bands. And all these influences flow into his unique and easily recognizable style. He is also head of Japanese music company IMAGINE who provides symphonic and/or orchestral music to Games and Anime. These days he is highly regarded in Japan, appears quite a lot on National Television and has various concerts of his work: Gravity Daze in Concert Here is his most recent work, soundtrack out on sept, 25: Planet With And his next big game score: One Piece World Seeker A new major title of the Sakura Wars franchise was announced as well and it will most likely be cross-media, so he's reaching a new apex as we speak. He even wrote new music for the franchise, for a slot machine to be exact: Sakura Wars ~ Hot-blooded Tide It's quite a lot ot take in, so take your time, his career is vast and his achievments are extraordinary and exemplary... but unsung. Excuse my little gushing but this man needs to be recognized somehow and celebrated. Spoiler:
Last edited by VIN; Aug 15, 2018 at 11:19 AM. |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Don't apologize for letting us know more about a hidden treasure and giving us the map to unearth it !
I am completely amazed by the massive talent he has. I've been listening to the podcast and it was simply fascinating to listen to all those perfectly crafted cues, chip music, midi music or big symphonic stuff. Everything he touches seems to reach perfection. I strongly agreed with the 2 podcasters when they told how much they loved the simple 8 bits rendition of the Gulliver's theme from Gulliver Boy on PC-Engine. I had the same reaction when I heard it for the first time. Such a catchy 8 bits theme ! I liked the comment when Will says in the podcast that his music is really melody centered and that he's somewhat like the japanese Bruce Broughton. That fits him like a glove. And they certainly are both underrated composers of overwhelming and imaginative music for the screens. Right after the podcast, I had to listen to more of his anime music which I must admit I knew very little about and I found your youtube suites by chance, even before I found your link in your post. What makes me even happier is knowing that he's still working on big projects and that his talent even grows wider, even all those years after the old days of 8/16 bits. Very few 8 bits composers (if not none) have made the transition to big symphonic modern day games. I think that his versatility, his visionnary early video game symphonic works and his ability to adapt to every kind of medium is the main reason of such an enduring success. I must say I'm falling more and more in love with his music, and I'm going to explore every bit of his daunting career. However, his old CDs seem to be very hard to find at decent prices. Do you know where I can purchase some of them, what do you recommend ? Last edited by Goldlink; Aug 15, 2018 at 08:58 AM. |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Not to be discouraging but finding his early CDs from the 90s and early 2000s is near impossible (if you want to obtain it with money ). From the major Japanese stores you can import, most are out of print, last time I checked. You may find him on iTunes and amazon but maybe only 5% of his work.
What you can get are his movie scores: Sakura Wars: The Movie, Galaxy Express 999 ~ Eternal Fantasy and Daigard (very good) One of his major works, One Piece, is actually on amazon (used). His recent work is available from cdjapan, but everything else is a treasure hunt. Koichi Sugiyama and Dragon Quest: Spoiler:
Last edited by VIN; Aug 15, 2018 at 02:09 PM. |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Thanks for your kind advices ! Galaxy Express 999 seems to fit exactly my expectations for epic orchestral film music. Seems like a perfect way to start my exploration of his anime music. Otaku.com seems to be a better place for finding his older stuff than CDJapan. About Koichi Sugiyama, of course I consider him as a pioneer in the orchestral arrangements of video games music. But being able to play WITH the orchestral music is something completely different than listening to an orchestral suite of themes. But I have all of his Dragon Quest symphonic albums (I have a preference for the London recordings by the way), and I completely love them ! Of course, I had a major crush on his Dragon Quest VIII score because I could play with the orchestral music in the PS2 western version of the game ! What a treat it was ! Last edited by Goldlink; Aug 15, 2018 at 10:08 AM. |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Japanese Anime and Game music is so obscure and once its out of print and not online its gone forever. So much great music out there... best of luck in finding the CDs. I know the feeling of not wanting to give up a full room of cds ^^. Digital is just not the same.
Regarding Dragon Quest XI, lets hope they do the same as VIII and not go with the horrible outdated synth of the Japanese version, you have a full album of orchestral recorded music, but they still won't use that ingame EDIT: Some other findings that might be interesting for the thread. 1. Yoko Kanno and early game arrangement albums Spoiler:
2. Noteworthy early symphonic game arrangement albums: Spoiler:
3. Noteworthy Game concerts (only the first two are relevant to the topic but maybe its fascinating regardless) Spoiler:
Last edited by VIN; Aug 15, 2018 at 03:19 PM. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
I know many of the CDs you are mentioning, they are such classics.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Tenshouki (Chronicles of Heaven) is tricky because it is actually used in the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxqojjoCen0 That is in the HD version, it was originially intented to be used I think.
It's interesting to call this arrangement when this was recorded before the game was even released. The score was recorded in October 1994 and the game released in December. It was music specifically written for the game but couldnt' be used because of limitations I believe (I don't know on how many consoles it was released atm). With chipsounds its note for note the same (on the SNES anyway). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_5VP6E-Jqk Of course that doesn't change the fact it was not used in 1994 but I would still call it a game score and not a game arrangement. And your right, I totally forgot Symphony Ys released in 1988, and Symphony Sorcerian released in 1989, arranged by the great Kentaro Haneda. I've added more to the list. Last edited by VIN; Aug 15, 2018 at 02:03 PM. |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
That's interesting ! In fact, I found out that Nobunaga's Ambition: Chronicles of the Ascension was released on the Nec PC-98 in 1994 as an exclusive and was later released on the FM Towns, DOS, Windows and Macintosh.
The PC-98 version was released on floppy disks so we can understand why it didn't include the orchestral music. I don't have the exact release dates but the FM Towns (which had a built-in CD-Rom player) version had been logically released on CD-Rom and therefore included the orchestral music, as you can check on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7R9O_G0-MM The Saturn's version that was released subsequently in september 1995 does have the orchestral score as well. My guess is that the developpers had planned the release on multiple systems, including some with CD-Rom. So they made a midi score for the floppy disk release in 1994 and an orchestral score for the CD-Rom releases in 1995. So you can definitely consider Nobunaga's Ambition: Chronicles of the Ascension as an early example of in-game orchestral score. Last edited by Goldlink; Aug 15, 2018 at 02:43 PM. |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Fascinating!
Another consideration after a bit of research. In 1995, Arc The Lad was released for the playstation, with orchestral music composed by Masahiro Andoh and arranged by Keiichi Oku. https://vgmdb.net/album/1263 Noteworthy for being performed by the Royal Philharmonic Orcherstra. Here is the orchestral score. It's a bit on the shorter side. And yet another Playstation game with a jawdropping orchestral score is Nessa no Hoshi, released in 1997. https://vgmdb.net/album/4054 It's performed by the Moscow International Symphonic Orchestra and a major score. The Moscow Symphonic ensemble also worked on Japanese game scores in the early 2000, namely the Kessen series which were fully orchestral, as well as with Michiru Oshima on masterful Film an Anime works and of course... Tanaka's Galaxy Express Last edited by VIN; Aug 15, 2018 at 03:48 PM. |
#18
|
||||
|
||||
Wow ! I just love this heroic theme ! Please, just don't stop to give us some early orchestral VGM ! I love those 90's scores, they just don't make them like this anymore in 2010's...
|
#19
|
||||
|
||||
This is a really interesting topic. To add what I can to the Koei situation: my understanding of the Koei "Soundware" line of albums is that they were not just arranged albums (although they could be separately purchased and listened to as such), but were produced for use in CD-ROM equipped PCs to replace the chip-based music in the PC versions of the games. Thus the name "Soundware", indicating these albums' sound-focused software functionality.
The Japanese wikipedia page on Koei (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82...82%A8%E3%83%BC) notes that they released special retail packages of their PC games with the Soundware album included, specifically for use as the in-game soundtrack, and that this practice began with Nobunaga no Yabou: Sengokugunyuden (released December '88). So these albums were actually produced as in-game soundtracks on separate media (almost analogous, in today's terms, to a "redbook audio DLC") but Koei also monetized them by selling them as straightforward music CDs. Because of this, I question their designation on vgmdb as "arranged" albums, but it's a tricky thing to classify. I also have no idea if other companies ever bundled redbook audio CDs with their PC games, without releasing them as retail albums. If so, there could be even earlier orchestral score precedents out there. It's debatable which Koei Soundware game first constituted a proper "orchestral" score; most of those early ones featured small ensemble/bands or studio-grade synth material, but I think Nobunaga Haouden (from '92), and not Tenshouki, qualifies as the first Nobunaga. There may be earlier examples from other Koei games. But if it's a question of what was the first single orchestral cue, the opening theme of Sengokugunyuden is very clearly an orchestral piece (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Xqt0v41Ao&t=01s). It's not clear though whether the Soundware package was available when the game first came out in December '88, or if the April '89 release date for the retail album also indicates when the Soundware package first appeared. Last edited by Psychonotes; Aug 15, 2018 at 03:50 PM. |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
You're adding some fantastic informations; the Koei's Soundware system is very interesting stuff regarding the in-game orchestral music question. That means that some people could play floppy disks game on PC with in-game CD-Rom music. That seems logical, since CD-Rom players have existed as peripherals for PC since 1985 (for non-consumer purposes). The first original CD-Rom software would only appear in 1987 (Bookshelf by Microsoft) and the first DOS CD-Rom game in 1989 (Manhole). So I believe the costly CD-Rom player on those machines would only serve as an audio CD Player in the late 80's.
Here's an automatic translation of the Koei's japanese wikipedia page : "For a while since " Nobunaga's Nobunaga / Sengoku genoga " (released in December 1988), a limited edition accompanied by an audio CD with game music arranged was called "with sound wear" for a while. PC version "with soundware" version had been released ahead of normal version for about two weeks. Soundwear's CD was also sold separately at the record shop, but as the PC's sound function improved, the medium shifted to CD-ROM, and BGM became to be caught on CD-DA , the unit sales were no longer done. As game capacity increased, the recording format of BGM also shifted from CD-DA to WMA format or proprietary format." EDIT : I've found the missing information about this soundware system in a youtube video. In fact, when the CD-Rom player for NEC PC-Engine was released in december 1988, it was planned that it would become compatible with the computer from the same company, the NEC PC-88, on which many Koei games were released around 1988-89. The 29th of november 1989, an adapter to connect the CD-Rom player on previous PC-88 and a new PC-88 with the CD-Rom built-in were released. I assume that from this day on, NEC bundled the PC-88 floppy disks with the music CD. https://youtu.be/N6SX3wkJRtc?t=10m50s As you can see in this video, it perfectly works with another game, Pacific Theater of Operations (PTO), released in 1989, which had a fabulous orchestral CD released in september 1989 composed by Hiroshi Miyagawa (Space Battleship Yamato). So, we can assume that in november 1989, japanese PC-88 could play the following games from the Koei Soundware series with a CD quality score : - Nobunaga's Ambition II (Apr 25, 1989) orchestral ensemble + pop music + synth music - Genghis Khan (Apr 25, 1989) strings ensemble + pop music + synth music - Bandit Kings of Ancient China (Apr 25, 1989) : orchestral ensemble + pop music - Storm of the Meiji Restoration (Jun 25, 1989) : synth music + pop music + ethnic music - Nobunaga's Ambition (Aug 25, 1989) orchestral ensemble + synth music + ethnic music - Romance of the Three Kingdoms (Aug 25, 1989) orchestral ensemble + synth music + ethnic music - Pacific Theater of Operations (Sep 05, 1989) : Tokyo City Philarmonic Orchestra The youtuber in the video above also speaks about Falcom (which games ?) and possibly some more companies... Last edited by Goldlink; Aug 25, 2018 at 01:48 PM. |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
So you're telling me its possible Hiroshi Miyagawa is not only one of the first to write music for anime but probably the first to write orchestral music for a game. What are the odds.
What bugs me is that this album has symphonic movements and not "normal track titles" like all the others. Would need clarification. EDIT: Added Total Annihilation by Jeremy Soule, a fully orchestral score for a game in 1997. It's up to debate wheter Total Annihilaton or Lost World was recorded first so its not yet set in stone what the third fully orchestral game score outside Japan is. The fifth is Medal of Honor. I've also added Haouden (Third fully orchestral game score) and Uncharted Waters (first to use live opera). A very tricky part is Shadows of the Empire, it was music original written and recorded for a novel, but also used in the game, released in 1996 for PC and N64: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nitJd6cIXU https://vgmdb.net/album/2127 Last edited by VIN; Aug 16, 2018 at 04:34 PM. Reason: It's finished now. |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Very good sum-up !
Despite the "western" subject , Badlands is japanese though...produced by Konami. Heart of Darkness was released in 1998. The CD has been released 1 year later in 1999. Last edited by Goldlink; Aug 16, 2018 at 08:12 AM. |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
Heart of Darkness was /recorded/ in 1995 as noted, however.
Also the list is missing The Lost World. |
#24
|
||||
|
||||
I have updated the list, above and below.
Last edited by VIN; Aug 16, 2018 at 04:30 PM. |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
About Shadows of the Empire, you cannot consider it as game music. Joel McNeely didn't know at all it would be used in a video game and simply didn't envision his score as music supporting a game. Outstanding symphonic music by the way !
Thanks for this comprehensive resume, this is awesome listing of orchestral game music. I wish I had this list when I began collecting game music with the CD of Heart of Darkness back in 1999 (the last year covered by your list) ! |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#27
|
||||
|
||||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Y0ypkLhng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGDMn1HobUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1wSM45_U5s I don't hear the music from the album in the game so far. I checked other sites for playthroughs and no version has the live orchestra. For Chronicles of the Ascension we can say with certainty because we have evidence but I now doubt the live recording was ever used ingame. I can however confirm that the third game had a live symphony orchestra ingame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2sxF3-PwUw (1996) https://vgmdb.net/album/4406 I've added that to the list. Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV (1994) also had live symphony orchestra (recorded in 1993) ingame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETz8RQM76SU&t=7m07s so I've added that to the early 90s scores. Here's what we have so far regarding the History of Orchestral Music in Video Games if I'm correct. Japan (1984-1994) Spoiler:
Japan (1995-1999) Spoiler:
Outside Japan (1993-1999) Spoiler:
Last edited by VIN; Aug 18, 2018 at 02:39 AM. |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
Well, you really can't conclude anything based on what happens to be available on youtube. The number of people who have: a working PC-88, with a CD drive, with a copy of the original Teitoku, with a copy of the Soundware CD, and a willingness to make and upload game footage, is probably vanishingly small. There's only a few vids available of any Koei PC games with Soundware music, even ones we know used the system (like Tenshouki), and only a few vids of PC88 version gameplay of any kind, so I don't think youtube can be a reliable basis here.
I had a look around for some more Japanese sources, but detailed info on this particular game is hard to find. Two things I did find: Japanese wiki page on the first game https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%8F...B1%BA%E6%96%AD "FM towns version was released on a CD-ROM, also containing the Soundware album from track 2 onwards. For the in-game BGM, the orchestra version was used in the intro". It also lists the PC-88 version, but doesn't mention how music was handled. This site about the PC88 version has a short mention in the second to last paragraph: http://www.8-bits.info/gamelist/PC88...0neM5GYSI2.php "Using the separate soundtrack CD (also sold as a set), CD-DA playback in CD drive-equipped systems was possible". So at the very least, the orchestral version was used for the intro in the FM Towns version, and CD audio playback was also done in the PC88 version. It's unclear to what extent, but perhaps that version also just used the album audio for the intro. |
#29
|
||||
|
||||
Thanks!
So now I've changed it to the first game score to partially feature a symphony orchestra. I also forgot Hyrule Symphony in 1999, Biohazard: Orchestra Album in 1999 and FINAL FANTASY VI GRAND FINALE in 1994, I've updated the list. Last edited by VIN; Aug 17, 2018 at 04:36 PM. |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
As far as I could find, the first video game featuring vocals (a pop song with a light real strings arrangement) is A-Ri-Ko (1988) on PC-Engine, notably the first game on CD-Rom ever produced. But we are getting away from the initial subject... And I'm not sure if there wasn't a song in a laserdisc game prior to 1988.
Last edited by Goldlink; Aug 19, 2018 at 12:22 AM. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
WTM39264: Batman: Arkham City - Original Video Game Score | BahamutZ | Album Discussions | 13 | Mar 3, 2016 12:34 PM |
SE-2077-2: DARK VOID Original Video Game Score | Dominus | Album Discussions | 2 | Feb 1, 2016 05:43 AM |
Batman: Arkham Knight Original Video Game Score: Volume 1 | Boldizar | Album Discussions | 1 | Jul 13, 2015 07:20 AM |
WTM39418: Injustice: Gods Among Us Original Video Game Score | TheMonkofDestiny | Album Discussions | 1 | Apr 20, 2013 07:36 AM |
N/A: Peter Jackson's King Kong Original Video Game Score | Myrkul | Album Discussions | 1 | May 29, 2009 05:23 PM |