Is there a definite, official track listing to some games?

[zionmagus]

Hi all, I have a question regarding the info on VGMdb. I'm in the process of retagging all of my VG music and while it's very helpful for the majority of games, for some I've ran into a bit of a bump on the road. For instance, Chrono Cross has two track lists on the site, an English version and an alternate version. Then when I cross reference with Wikipedia, I found another alternate name for the same song. When checking Amazon, there's another version. RPGFan, another. I mean, which are the correct names? I know I maybe anal but I guess I just want absolute accuracy so I don't have to retag them again should there be an official listing. I know that it's probably because the originals are in Japanese and there are variations in the translations, but man it sure makes it more difficult and confusing. It would be nice if the creators do make official English track lists. Do any of you guys have this kind of problem? If so any suggestions?

[seanne]

Originally Posted by zionmagus

I know that it's probably because the originals are in Japanese and there are variations in the translations, but man it sure makes it more difficult and confusing.

That's pretty much it. And the more complicated a certain title is (number of words, grammar, etc) the more likely it is that there'll be room for variation in translating it. So one translation isn't necessarily more accurate than another even though the wording exactly isn't the same.

[Dag]

Keep in mind many of the tracklists floating around are old translations often full of mistakes. We are trying to fix them here (if you see a big differences here usually we'll have the more correct version), but it's slow and hard. I'm afraid sometimes the best way to know about the accuracy is ask in a thread.

Mistakes are found mainly for older but well known games's tracklists, newer games are more usually a matter of translation tastes/differences like Seanne says
For example I'm not too fond of either of the Chrono Cross variants here. My translation would be something like this (based more on the US names):

Spoiler:

01 CHRONO CROSS ~The Scars of Time~
02 Between Life and Death
03 Arni Village: Home
04 The Grasslands of Time: Home World
05 Dance With the Lizards
06 Reminiscence ~Indelible Memories~
07 On the Shores of the Dream: Another World
08 Arni Village: Another
09 Transient Memories
10 Lost Fragments
11 Drowned Valley
12 Termina: Another
13 The Departed
14 Shadow Forest
15 Viper Manor
16 Victory ~Gift of Spring~
17 A Child Lost in Time
18 Guldove: Another
19 Hydra Marshes
20 Fragments of a Dream
21 Voyage: Another World
22 Phantom Ship
23 Mount Pyre
24 Fort Dragonia
25 Grief

01 The Beginning of the Dream
02 Between Dimensions
03 Termina: Home
04 The Dragoons
05 Voyage: Home World
06 Guldove: Home
07 Marbule: Home
08 Zelbess
09 The Splendidly Surprising Grand Magic Troupe
10 Nap
11 Chronomantique
12 Dilemma
13 Optimism
14 Isle of the Damned
15 Dead Sea - Tower of Ruin
16 Those Imprisoned by Fate
17 Already Lost, The Light
18 Earth Dragon Isle
19 Gaea's Navel
20 Gale
21 Victory ~Call of Summer~
22 Marbule: Another
23 Magic From the Fairies
24 Etude 1
25 Etude 2
26 MAGICAL DREAMERS ~The Wind, Stars and Waves~

01 Garden of God
02 Chronopolis
03 FATES ~God of Fate~
04 Jellyfish Sea
05 The Orphanage in Flames
06 The Girl Who Stole the Stars
07 A Dream Time Has
08 Dragon's Prayer
09 Star Tower
10 Frozen Flame
11 Dragon God
12 In the Darkness of Time
13 Life ~Faraway Promise~
14 Reminiscence ~Indelible Memories~
15 RADICAL DREAMERS ~The Jewel That Cannot Be Stolen~
16 Fragments of a Dream

[zionmagus]

Hi all, thanks for the suggestions. I guess I'll just have to make due with it.
I also have a question about original and re-release. Take for example, Chrono Trigger. The OSV and the OST re-release both contains the exact same tracks, sans the arranged + extra tracks, but with varying names for many songs. Which name then should take precedent? Or do they remain different for their respective album? Examples would be tracks 2.03, 2.10, 2.22, 2.24. I know these are subtle differences but they do add to confusion.

Also, when tagging, do Composers override Arrangers & Performers as Artists? Or does one list Arrangers & Performers with Composers, either by commas or featuring?

Anyway, sorry if I'm asking too many questions. I'm just starting with tagging and I want to do it correctly.

[Ira]

Originally Posted by zionmagus

I also have a question about original and re-release. Take for example, Chrono Trigger. The OSV and the OST re-release both contains the exact same tracks, sans the arranged + extra tracks, but with varying names for many songs. Which name then should take precedent? Or do they remain different for their respective album? Examples would be tracks 2.03, 2.10, 2.22, 2.24. I know these are subtle differences but they do add to confusion.

It's like the others said, there's multiple valid translations for the same text and that's what they are in this case, different translations. The english track list for the OSV is said to be based on the soundtest of the english version of the game so I suppose that could be considered official, but it's really up to your preference. If you're really concerned about sticking to the original names use the japanese or romanized track names.

Originally Posted by zionmagus

Also, when tagging, do Composers override Arrangers & Performers as Artists? Or does one list Arrangers & Performers with Composers, either by commas or featuring?

Again, preference. Though it's not a practice I've ever seen as you can always use the composer field for that (which is pretty common.) I personally use whatever an album lists as the artist (be it the composer, arranger, or performer, etc.) in the artist field and if they don't specify one and just give a full credit breakdown I usually use the arranger or composer.

In any case, it's not really a big deal as long as the information is organized in a way that's useful to you. That's kind of the point.

[Medina]

It's this need for some kind of peace with English translations that leads me to often do them myself. No offense against anybody else's translations, but because of the often subjective nature of translating one language to another, there is almost always some level of interpretation, and the translations I'll agree on most often are my own of course. But this is only possible because I have a fair understanding of Japanese.

For your concern, zionmagus, there isn't really a "right" here. You could possibly even tag something that we all have agreed is a really good tracklist, and then 2 years later someone will come in with information about how this track should really be this because it's a Japanese idiom and doesn't mean exactly what it says, or it should be that because of an occurence in the game (very possibly the translators haven't played every game they're making tracklists for, or else they're very busy). It's not worth beating yourself up over, and unless you will feel most comfortable doing it yourself, it's best just to use the tracklists already here. And like Dag mentioned, possibly look at the date of the last time the English tracklist was updated. If it's something like 2007 and you feel you see some odd names, perhaps it's worth mentioning.

As for listing composer vs. arranger, etc, I like to list the arranger over the composer and here's why: the arranger is responsible for why a song sounds a certain way. For example, are we going to credit Nobuo Uematsu for every version of the Final Fantasy Victory Fanfare even if he played no part in the way it sounds in the newer Final Fantasy games? Those credits should go out to who "covered" them so to speak (like giving Hitoshi Sakimoto credit for the version in Final Fantasy XII), and like Ira said you can always put Nobuo's name in the composer filed (versus the artist field). Otherwise it's like crediting Britney Spears for the cover of "Oops I Did It Again" that Children of Bodom did.