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  #1  
Old Jan 16, 2010, 07:28 AM
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Default Alleged Plagiarism

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Originally Posted by Prime Blue View Post
The Yoko Kanno plagiarism stuff on YouTube is the most ridiculous I've seen so far, and people buy into it just because they can't differentiate between musical style and ripping something off.
Err... unfortunately, despite Kanno being one of my own favorite composers, she has indeed committed serious plagiarism a number of times. Here's a whole thread about it.

Many of the instances are fleeting; and some are entirely coincidental IMO. But there are still cases of pure, undeniable lifting. Make sure you read the whole thread. Sadly, it keeps growing...

Last edited by Jormungand; Jan 16, 2010 at 07:31 AM.
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Old Jan 19, 2010, 07:58 AM
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Last edited by Prime Blue; Mar 31, 2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old Jan 19, 2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Prime Blue View Post
Sorry, but I won't be wading through 27 pages of speculation. If only half of the stuff mentioned there was true, she would have been sued to hell and back.

That's not to say I know she hasn't committed plagiarism, but so far all the accusations I've seen were wrong. I have yet to come across a solid example with some actual proof (which goes beyond "OMG LISTEN TO IT IT'S THE SAME INSTRUMENT AND FIVE NOTES MATCH").
So... you basically don't want to examine the evidence, even though it's right there.

Note by note, shameless, direct plagiarism. There are many examples. Read the thread, listen to the examples, and then come back and tell me you have the same position.
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Old Jan 19, 2010, 04:12 PM
Ramza Ramza is offline
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Or you could do us the favor, Jormungand, of picking two or three that you think are definitely "beyond coincidence" and give us the verdict.

Let's not forget just how close RickRoll sounds to Robo's Theme, yet that was coincidence.
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Old Jan 19, 2010, 05:08 PM
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If so, maybe this conversation could be carried away somewhere else?

Just saying.
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Old Jan 19, 2010, 07:08 PM
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Split this discussion into its own topic.

By the way, this is plagiarism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knr0ezxDwMw
"Angelic Serenade" credited to Fujio Takano (2001.12.29)

versus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXJN-VtVOwk
"CLOSE MY LOVE" credited to Takashi Kimura (1998.07.15)
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Old Jan 20, 2010, 01:32 AM
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Last edited by Prime Blue; Mar 31, 2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old Jan 20, 2010, 12:57 PM
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I waded through about a third of the pages in the linked thread and I must say I'm a little disappointed. This debate has been going on for years and people just won't let it die. I was hoping that this time there might actually be some real evidence, but it was the same old speculation and silly comparisons. I mean, "Dance of Curse" and "O Fortuna"? Really? And that's just one bad example.

It's fun to look for similarities in music and there were a couple of interesting comparisons there, but a handful of similarities does not plagiarism make. I find if amusing that some people there were literally accusing Kanno of plagiarism when 1) the example was iffy at best, 2) there's no proof she heard the source material, and 3) no one anywhere is interested in taking legal action. Japan isn't some little, backwards country and this isn't the mid-twentieth century. If Kanno was really ripping off huge artists left and right, then she'd be in court. Just look at all the petty (and wrong) plagiarism cases that go to court here in the US.

Anyway, I remain completely unconvinced. It's just more of the same old stuff: lousy comparisons and people who don't know what they're talking about. They're free to speculate as much as they want, but they don't have any real proof, evidence, or even plausible theories.
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Old Jan 20, 2010, 09:23 PM
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I thought everyone rips off O Fortuna. Mitsuda certainly did for a Xenosaga I track. Though in these instances, I'm more inclined to say that they were influenced by Orff rather than ripping it off completely.

Now, Gundam F91.... there's a soundtrack that is damned close to John Williams's stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl1DTJjQmrM
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Old Jan 21, 2010, 04:15 AM
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Wasn't there a thread like this at the old Chudah's Corner forums as well?


As for the actual matter, plagiarism is a strong word and as such I wouldn't go that far.
I'm of the opinion that Kanno has lifted few things here and there from elsewhere, but most of the examples people cite are usually completely bogus.
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  #11  
Old Jan 21, 2010, 05:39 AM
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The most striking example of alleged plagiarism in Kanno's work to me is "Face On" from Wolf's Rain. It is a copy & paste of "Finding Beauty" by Craig Armstrong. "fish - silent cruise" from Ghost in the Shell SAC also sounds very much like one of Armstrong's songs. Other than that, I don't find these usual "proofs" very convincing. I believe this is quite natural for composers--or artists in general--to make something closely resembling something they like themselves. I still consider Yoko Kanno as a fantastic artist.
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 07:45 AM
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I can tell the entire thread was not read. We discussed the differences between inspiration and plagiarism to varying degrees. This includes myself and others striking down accusations of plagiarism where clearly none existed; as well as admitting to brief or passing similarities that may or may not have been inspired directly. It's all there, but has apparently been ignored.

So, because people don't feel like doing their homework:

"Mushroom Hunting" from Cowboy Bebop OST 3 // "Let the Good Shine" by D.J. Food (there used to be a sample on youtube; can't even find one on amazon anymore. The link is to a side-by-side comparison of Kanno's "Mushroom Hunting" and "Let the Good Shine". IMO this is the most disturbing case of Kanno plagiarism)

"Want it All Back" from Cowboy Bebop OST 2 // "Zodiac Sign" by Imperial Drag

"Heaven's Not Enough" from Wolf's Rain OST 2 // "Wake Up In New York" by Craig Armstrong

"Face On" (skip to 1:11) from Wolf's Rain OST 2 // "Finding Beauty" by Craig Armstrong

"Cloud 9" from Wolf's Rain OST 2 // "Une Heroine" by Laurent Voulzy

"Ride on Technology" from GiTS:SAC OST 2 // "Jungle Out" by No Jazz (the side-by-side starts at 2:11)

"Two Things" from 23 ji no ongaku // "Um Grao De Areia" by the Clarke-Boland Big Band (find me a decent way to upload an mp3 sample and I'll post a clip of Kanno's)

"Prism" (melody starts at :52) and "Bridge" from Brain Powerd OST 1 borrow part of the melody from Alan Sylvestri's "Pseudopod" (skip to 3:14) from the Abyss score. More of an intentional homage IMO, since all of Prism is clearly Sylvestri influenced anyway. Kanno has a number of these cases in her catalogue that are obviously intentional. They range from classical sources such as Ravel, Faure, Bach, Prokofiev and more to Pink Floyd, The Beatles, Beck, Billy Joel, and a variety of other pop artists to film score composers like Patrick Doyle, David Arnold, and the previously mentioned Sylvestri.
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  #13  
Old Jan 23, 2010, 07:49 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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It's Silvestri!!
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 07:52 AM
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Yeah yeah, whatever.
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  #15  
Old Jan 23, 2010, 09:57 AM
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Well, it's not as if plagiarism in game music was limited to Yoko Kanno. Try Attacked by Assassins from Baldur's Gate 1 and then compare it to Main Title from movie Lifeforce. The title music from Electronic Arts' Lord of the Rings from early 1990's is a direct copy of Poledouris' Flesh + Blood (1985). I will need to re-listen to Planescape: Torment because I clearly remember one track being quite similar to Silvestri's Predator, but I can't find it right now. Etc.

Orchestral arrangements especially bear "more than a passing resemblance" to older works (e.g. compare The Lion's Banner from orchestral version of Shenmue against Raid on Leonesse from Goldsmith's First Knight - incidentally, both are tracks 4 on their respective CDs... One Game Music Concert CD has a part of a track directly lifted from one Star Wars soundtrack).

Personally, I don't really mind these "plagiarisms". I find them amusing, that's all - just about every composer alive (and dead) today lifted some ideas from his or her predecessors, often without properly citing them, and we still consider them great composers.
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