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  #1  
Old Jan 7, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Lao Shan Lung Lao Shan Lung is offline
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Default do you give away free osts?

i post music on youtube, but there have been a couple times when someone will ask me if i can send them some tracks. i kindly oblige, but when i see the counter for downloads, i see it's downloaded 6 times or something (from one person?).

one time i didn't get even a 'thank you' afterwards, and another time they ask me to do it a different way because it wasn't truly 'lossless' and could be errors.

anyways, it makes me feel used

thoughts on this? i think i will have to ignore requests from now on.

Last edited by Lao Shan Lung; Jan 7, 2012 at 06:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old Jan 10, 2012, 10:02 PM
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I wouldn't ever give away a free ost if someone asked me randomly for it on the internet. I think a free song/track is fine though.

Don't get too down about people being unappreciative on the internet.
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  #3  
Old Jan 11, 2012, 01:05 AM
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What the fuck man? This site isn't for (illegal) file sharing, you must ignore it, every time.

You kind of seem new to the internetz... Anyone who sends you private messages asking for CD rips (in this case) is an asshole. There are plenty of places where they can get what they want... And you shouldn't be surprised about lack of appreciation, there are many people who really rip music from their own collection, upload the files to many public sites (again, this is all illegal, but nobody can stop it), they may get 10 or less simple thank you replies, and counter is shitting over 1000 downloads - that's pure internet reality.

Last edited by Efendija; Jan 11, 2012 at 01:14 AM.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 02:01 AM
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Please, forgive me if i don't express myself in proper english, but as you can see it isn't my native language.

I used to share albums in the past, mainly rare/out of print stuff. Nowadays when people direct at me tracks' requests/rips' requests i simply point them... whenever i can... to a website where they might purchase the album, otherwise i tell them something along the lines of:

A) Nope, i won't share it. Tough luck, guy.
B) Simply ignore them.

In the rare cases when they accuse me of rudeness because, well, i didn't bother to give them an answer... I quote this to them:
Quote:
Who's the one being really rude around here? Given the facts i'd say "you", a random person showing up out of nowhere and asking me to do something completely illegal and in one of the most unlikely places to ask for it, on top of that. I'm here minding my own business, now leave me alone or there might be consequences for your account or, in the worst case scenario, you.
They usually stop at this point.

Geez, people should get a simple fact craved-into-stone in their minds:

"We're dealing with albums/tracks, not pokémons. We aren't supposed to catch 'em all. Accept it as soon as you can and you'll have a better life as music-collector/music-addict."

EDIT:
About the unappreciative kind of scum, i like to remind the following to them:
Quote:
Look, idiot, you should just be grateful that i've actually went as far as ripping the CD, furtherly wearing it, and uploading for you... Or even for the simple fact that i've shared something which i own with you, either way we have a decent amount of my precious free-time gone to waste. Not happy with what i've offered? Well, then... fuck off and ultimately do something about the whole ordeal yourself... like, you know, purchasing the real thing instead of pestering others about it.
No need to show politeness to those who clearly do not deserve it.

Last edited by ilef; Jan 11, 2012 at 02:53 AM. Reason: Addendum and small corrections
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  #5  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Efendija View Post
What the fuck man? This site isn't for (illegal) file sharing, you must ignore it, every time.
actually it wasn't this site. and i honestly don't support the idea or practice of illegal file sharing.

so yea i agree with everyone here! better to buy original, hard copies and support the companies who produce these things for us to enjoy.
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  #6  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Shan Lung View Post
better to buy original, hard copies and support the companies who produce these things for us to enjoy.
Funny, you know, in the past i would have countered this argument with something like:
Quote:
I've purchased the product the music got written for in the first place, thus... in a way... I've already showed my support to the company and everyone else involved in the music creation. Why would i have to pay twice for something i've already got the right to listen?
We've got a pretty weak text there, i know, especially since some soundtrack comes with different arrangements/remixes/other exclusive tracks... but still, back then this helped me to not feel entirely bad..... Forgot to mention also that the treatment given to some of these official releases, in terms of mastering/related stuff, wasn't very good... Pretty hard to believe that you've got to pay money for them.

I personally don't condemn piracy, and whilst my previous statement about not really needing to have THAT album still holds some truth to it, there are other things to consider which slightly "justify" piracy, in my humble opinion:

- Most obvious reason ~ music isn't getting an official release and if you really want it you have to crack the audio codec/format and illegally rip it off the source.
- Region-locked exclusives/Limited edition enclosure ~ the first examples that come to my mind are some Japanese iTunes-only releases.... And different content between the various limited editions.... Or again shortened soundtracks releases which didn't include X tracks because of copyright/licensing issues.

Illegal sharing is a problem, but not the biggest one. My only real issue with the whole thing can be found within the users on piracy's receiving-end: they're lucky enough to obtain goodies illegally, for free, and they dare to complain about them not being in the desired quality/format. Oh, well, at least such people is a testament to the fact that i'm not the only scum around, there's a lot of crap between the downloaders, too.

Last edited by ilef; Jan 12, 2012 at 06:23 AM.
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  #7  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 06:30 AM
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My latest pet peeve is the assholes who use this site to blatantly trade up their digital music collections by buying a cd, ripping it to some lossless format, then immediately reselling it on the marketplace to recoup their cost. it's blatantly obvious who the offenders are and I've sold some CDs to a few people who have received it and then immediately turned around and relisted it for exactly the same price a day later. Disgusting practice, but unfortunately this is the Internet. The only thing I can do is make a concerted effort to not purchase or sell to them.

For what it's worth, I support most major forms of whatever is considered piracy these days. It's the ungrateful, unappreciative and general self entitlement that bothers me. I think it's really a generational thing, people these days who grew up with everything at their fingertips don't really appreciate anything and expect everything to be instant and given to them. It's sad

Last edited by dancey; Jan 12, 2012 at 06:34 AM.
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  #8  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dancey View Post
My latest pet peeve is the assholes who use this site to blatantly trade up their digital music collections by buying a cd, ripping it to some lossless format, then immediately reselling it on the marketplace to recoup their cost. it's blatantly obvious who the offenders are and I've sold some CDs to a few people who have received it and then immediately turned around and relisted it for exactly the same price a day later. Disgusting practice, but unfortunately this is the Internet. The only thing I can do is make a concerted effort to not purchase or sell to them.
I must say i don't find it a disgusting practice at all, i don't like it, but it may work wonders as a solution to occupied space:

1) The seller got the money he wanted/requested/etc..., hopefully. What the buyer does with the newly acquired item is none of his/her concern... anymore.
2) The buyer, as the defacto-new owner of the cd can do whatever he/she likes with it... If he/she feels like selling as soon as digital audio/package lossless copies have been made, the decision's up to him/her. No offence is being actually made, in the words of someone else around here which made me see things under a different light: the albums don't have any actual value, their only purpose is to store audio tracks/other kinds of data+occasional information/artwork in the booklets, therefore no one is actually being offended by that kind of practice, more like wanting to feel offended. We... as people/collectors... are the ones to give albums such things as importance, for various reasons, but that doesn't mean they actually are important. Anyway - The company/label got its money 'cause the album had been originally purchased by someone, the seller got the money wanted/requested for the trade, and the buyer ultimately ended with the album he/she wanted... albeit in a different kind of form. Everyone should be happy in the end.

There are different kinds of collectors spread around the world, with different needs.

Last edited by ilef; Jan 12, 2012 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Misplacement
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  #9  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:41 AM
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Lao Shan Lung Lao Shan Lung is offline
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i like to share, but i like people who are grateful and dont take advantage of it. as much as i enjoy the music itself (and i suppose that's what it's ultimately about), the collector in me enjoys having the original disc, artwork, case, etc. so even if i could download something for free, it wouldn't feel like i was getting the "real" thing.

i would still give a copied cd to a friend who maybe didn't want to buy something, but for strangers on the internet, i don't think i can be as accommodating anymore. i'm not new to the internet, but i am a nice person, so sometimes i do things that seems like a nice thing to do, but in the end, get burned. 'cause it's like, i spend my own money to get some of these very nice and rare soundtracks, and i mistakenly believe that this person is the same as me and appreciates it just as much. but they dont. i only started posting music on youtube for about 4 years and in that time, i've only received a few requests.

i could never be a hardcore pirate of music, it feels like a hollow practice. the idea of getting hundreds of music files for free simply isn't satisfying. if i like what i hear, i want to buy it for my own amusements so i can look at it as well as hear it. it serves my other senses aside from hearing and feels more complete. to me, music has a visual aspect to it as well as auditory. it's kind of like the connection between taste and smell, but between the sight and sound when it comes to soundtracks.

maybe its ok in small amounts, i just dont want piracy to make it entirely unprofitable for a company to release a game soundtrack and thinking it's a waste of time and effort, then we never seem them again and i dont want to be part of the problem.
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  #10  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 11:26 AM
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I think the market should change, too. We may have companies which release incomplete and/or poorly mastered albums (believe it or not, i've friends which stopped purchasing VGM because of these reasons.... they became full-fledged pirates).

If piracy will ever bring downfall upon the companies releasing VGM, i won't hide that a part of me will be happy about it....It's not like they deserve to survive.

Last edited by ilef; Jan 12, 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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  #11  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
My latest pet peeve is the assholes who use this site to blatantly trade up their digital music collections by buying a cd, ripping it to some lossless format, then immediately reselling it on the marketplace to recoup their cost.

For what it's worth, I support most major forms of whatever is considered piracy these days.
So wait a minute, you support piracy, but don't support actually buying the music from somebody to obtain the same thing that was pirated? Ahaha, that's classic.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:47 PM
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So wait a minute, you support piracy, but don't support actually buying the music from somebody to obtain the same thing that was pirated? Ahaha, that's classic.
I guess you misunderstood him. I believe he meant something like:

1) Someone buying a cd from you.
2) Ripping THAT cd into digital /lossless format.
3) Selling the cd afterwards.

This is the picture i've got, at least. I personally don't find anything wrong with such habit, but i can relate to the hurt collector.

EDIT:
Well, it seems my understanding is correct in regards of what he wrote after, i'm too dumb.

Last edited by ilef; Jan 12, 2012 at 01:56 PM.
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  #13  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:57 PM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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Originally Posted by ilef View Post
I think the market should change, too. We may have companies which release incomplete and/or poorly mastered albums (believe it or not, i've friends which stopped purchasing VGM because of these reasons.... they became full-fledged pirates).

If piracy will ever bring downfall upon the companies releasing VGM, i won't hide that a part of me will be happy about it....It's not like they deserve to survive.
Incomplete album releases are much rarer than they used to be, unless you're referring to (what in my opinion are) insignificant omissions like the drowning jingle from the Sonic 1&2 OST release of last year.

Are there many poorly mastered VGM albums? I find the problem is much more often compression used on the original samples (like in late 90s Konami releases), which is not the record company's fault. Most of the time, the mastering doesn't hurt the music too much, I feel. The last exception I can think of was the Symphonic Fantasies album.

EDIT: I'll add some of Basiscape's more recent albums to that. The mastering on Muramasa's OST release is a little much.

Last edited by Xenofan 29A; Jan 12, 2012 at 02:04 PM.
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  #14  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ilef View Post
I guess you misunderstood him. I believe he meant something like:

1) Someone buying a cd from you.
2) Ripping THAT cd into digital /lossless format.
3) Selling the cd afterwards.
Yeah, and if this is what he means, I can't see how he can possibly have a problem with this because it's less pirating than actual pirating, which he said outright that he supports. I don't know how anyone can say "Yeah I'm good with pirating but spend money on something to rip it? Preposterous!" I doubt Dancey's deleting any rip of the soundtrack he has on his hard drive before selling it, so isn't he doing the same fucking thing anyway?
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Xenofan 29A View Post
Incomplete album releases are much rarer than they used to be, unless you're referring to (what in my opinion are) insignificant omissions like the drowning jingle from the Sonic 1&2 OST release of last year.

Are there many poorly mastered VGM albums? I find the problem is much more often compression used on the original samples (like in late 90s Konami releases), which is not the record company's fault. Most of the time, the mastering doesn't hurt the music too much, I feel. The last exception I can think of was the Symphonic Fantasies album.
Heh, you said the magic word, "opinion"! There are those who want that jingles, too, otherwise they don't consider the release to be really complete.... Anyway, i can give you another example of incomplete release: the Final Fantasy VIII Original Soundtrack ~ it's missing a short & darker version of "Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec", one which can be heard at the end of Disc 2... and half-way~near the end of Disc 3. I sincerely don't know if it got released on a different album, but i'm sure it is not on the original soundtrack.

As for mastering, well, now I sincerely hope that things got better under that department... but I'd kill for a remaster of the Kessen II Soundtrack... And i'll gladly quote the following user, since i agree completely with him/her:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldfishX View Post
I would like to see just about every VGM rock album from the past 10 years re-released with a lot less compression and far better dynamics. I rarely listen to my Guilty Gear soundtracks anymore because of this and the new Falcom stuff is nuked so badly by the loudness war, it is hardly worth the effort. Stuff like Arcana Hearts 3, Meltyblood and much of the doujin rock releases share a similar fate.

[...]

And that Rockman X boxset...that whole damn thing needs a good remaster!
EDIT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
Yeah, and if this is what he means, I can't see how he can possibly have a problem with this because it's less pirating than actual pirating, which he said outright that he supports. I don't know how anyone can say "Yeah I'm good with pirating but spend money on something to rip it? Preposterous!" I doubt Dancey's deleting any rip of the soundtrack he has on his hard drive before selling it, so isn't he doing the same fucking thing anyway?
Well, maybe that's hurting his collector penis? I don't understand english very well, but maybe he doesn't like that there are those who do not... "enjoy" the packaging, take the time to read booklet, etc...... I'm guessing he's fed up with the fact that people purchase albums just to rip them and not actually own them [nothing wrong with it, anyway].

Last edited by ilef; Jan 12, 2012 at 02:40 PM.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 02:57 PM
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My two cents, but kinda seems like a dick move wasting the seller's time if the buyer just wants a digital copy for 0$ (by instantly reselling at the same price).
Bonus points for effort though.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Which also makes no sense because the seller's time wasn't wasted. He sold it and got the money. Couldn't be further from wasted. What, are we only selling stuff now because we have some greater mission to spread VGM only to those who love it in a certain way? Somebody who collects personally-done lossless rips of VGM soundtracks don't count amongst those of us who only save things up physically? Dancey's argument is just really stupid and he's the one that seems like an asshole, that's all.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 05:20 PM
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I think it is rather convenient that vgm albums can be sold back at around the same price you bought them for. Price-gouging is solely for albums that are decades old and very much oop. This is much better than what I see in the rest of the music industry when it comes to reselling music. A lot of releases that are limited edition (vinyl in particular) are being bought by people and sold at double up to five times the original price within months of the release dates.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 05:54 PM
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You're all half-right in all the things you posted, but maybe you didn't read my second paragraph edit I made shortly after the post went up. It's the attitude and general demeanor of these people I don't like.

- Does it hurt my "collector penis", as someone put it? Yes, but I don't need a large or better collection than someone to know that I'm better than them. Elitist? Yeah. You can call it that.
- Is it good for the market? Yes, unless someone is purposely upselling stuff.
- Am I losing money or having my time wasted? No.

My general mentality is that I want to be a part of a community that appreciates the music and has some semblance of respect towards the industry and others in the community, as a whole. Do I pirate things? Yes. Do I purchase things? Yes. Do I sell things? Yes. Do I share things with other people? Yes.

I just find these people who feel the need to amass large collections of music in this way don't really appreciate the community. They're using the community as a means to their end without ever really giving back. They hardly contribute and quite frankly it feels like I'm being used when that kind of shit happens to me (buying something from me and immediately reselling it)
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  #20  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilef View Post
2) The buyer, as the defacto-new owner of the cd can do whatever he/she likes with it... If he/she feels like selling as soon as digital audio/package lossless copies have been made, the decision's up to him/her. No offence is being actually made, in the words of someone else around here which made me see things under a different light: the albums don't have any actual value, their only purpose is to store audio tracks/other kinds of data+occasional information/artwork in the booklets, therefore no one is actually being offended by that kind of practice, more like wanting to feel offended. We... as people/collectors... are the ones to give albums such things as importance, for various reasons, but that doesn't mean they actually are important. Anyway - The company/label got its money 'cause the album had been originally purchased by someone, the seller got the money wanted/requested for the trade, and the buyer ultimately ended with the album he/she wanted... albeit in a different kind of form. Everyone should be happy in the end.
It's still piracy, and I'm always boggled by those who claim to be vehemently against piracy yet fully support the practice of making a digital copy and selling the disc, while keeping the copy. It's really NOT any different than just going and DLing a copy by itself, the end result is that someone has a copy which they don't have ownership of the item (as in the case of ripping and selling, they transfered ownership by said process).
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
It's still piracy, and I'm always boggled by those who claim to be vehemently against piracy yet fully support the practice of making a digital copy and selling the disc, while keeping the copy. It's really NOT any different than just going and DLing a copy by itself, the end result is that someone has a copy which they don't have ownership of the item (as in the case of ripping and selling, they transfered ownership by said process).
I don't see how buying an album, ripping it, and then selling it onwards is an act of piracy? I mean, I don't see no copyright infringement on that, unless we're talking some finer parts of some silly piracy laws. But then, it's slippely slope from there onwards.

But I myself do understand dancey's point about selling an album to someone who's just gonna use that sweet little album, instead of gently taking care of it. Wouldn't you want your cds to get a nice home, instead of someone who's just gonna dump them on the road after they've had their fun with it?

And I do share music that I've bought with people, mostly with people I do talk with or know somewhat, I hate getting random requests out of the blue (thankfully I haven't gotten so much, pro's of having somewhat 'standard' collection!), especially if they're just trying to get some 'rarer' stuff in some other format than oh-so glorious mp3. But for people like that, I tend to be polite and shove them under a moving train with my replies. And forward those pm's onwards.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 10:26 PM
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if you keep the lossless for you, it's not piracy (I reach what raz has said in his first paragraph)
but if you share that lossless with people for free, it's piracy (it's not as if piracy was something new, after pirates you will maybe have corsairs ;p)
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  #23  
Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancey View Post
[...] Yes, but I don't need a large or better collection than someone to know that I'm better than them. [...]
I understand your point of view, but i can't bring myself to agree with it. I think that there are different type of collectors, with different needs... Can we REALLY say who's doing it right or wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
It's still piracy, and I'm always boggled by those who claim to be vehemently against piracy yet fully support the practice of making a digital copy and selling the disc, while keeping the copy. It's really NOT any different than just going and DLing a copy by itself, the end result is that someone has a copy which they don't have ownership of the item (as in the case of ripping and selling, they transfered ownership by said process).
What the heck, man? That's wrong, just wrong. No piracy at all. You've purchased the item, you actually owned it at some point, right? Then, you should have some kind of document that proves your - now - digital backup copy was originated from something you legally had. You paid the manufacturer or the reseller, they've got the money for THAT copy and you've got yourself the right to listen it. EDIT: I stand corrected, silly law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
[...]

But I myself do understand dancey's point about selling an album to someone who's just gonna use that sweet little album, instead of gently taking care of it. Wouldn't you want your cds to get a nice home, instead of someone who's just gonna dump them on the road after they've had their fun with it?
In a way, i've already answered this in one of my previous posts and slightly above. Again, it's a point we can all agree with, but it still fails by not taking into account a simple fact: the buyer is a whole different person, and he/she may have different priorities/needs. Once the item gets sold, what happens to it... or the way it ends up being used... is no longer of our concern. We passed it on to someone else, we should forget about it, in my humble opinion.

Last edited by ilef; Jan 13, 2012 at 02:36 AM.
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  #24  
Old Jan 13, 2012, 02:14 AM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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I don't see how buying an album, ripping it, and then selling it onwards is an act of piracy? I mean, I don't see no copyright infringement on that, unless we're talking some finer parts of some silly piracy laws. But then, it's slippely slope from there onwards.
Then you're wrongly informed. If you sell an album, then you're bound to destroy all copies you've made of the album.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 03:23 AM
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Then you're wrongly informed. If you sell an album, then you're bound to destroy all copies you've made of the album.
Actually, I think I need to check up on what Finnish copyright laws say about that.

But then, does copy now mean exact copy or copy with chunks of information missing? (I assume it's both.)

Quote:
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We passed it on to someone else, we should forget about it, in my humble opinion.
Reasonable opinion, but if I would start selling something off from my collection, I sure would like to sell it someone who really wants the album and isn't just getting it for small fun. But then, this is a silly subject to even talk about in the end. :P
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 09:19 AM
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But then, does copy now mean exact copy or copy with chunks of information missing? (I assume it's both.)
Not sure, but I figure this is open to interpretation once such a case actually hits the court.

Anyway, this is also one of the reasons why the content industry wants to contain the dealing with used game/audio/video/etc. media. Because the content industry has no power to actually enforce deletion of "backup" copies once a media is sold from one person to another.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 06:41 PM
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TerraEpon TerraEpon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidAcid View Post
Then you're wrongly informed. If you sell an album, then you're bound to destroy all copies you've made of the album.
Indeed, at least in the US. I can't believe people think that "you payed for it" means it's yours forever. If you sell something, you transfer ownership of it. If you keep a copy, there's 0% difference between that and simply downloading a copy without paying for it.
After all, especially with VGM discs, one could easily get more money on the disc. Pay $30, make a copy, get $40 AND be able to still enjoy it? How could anyone concievably say it's not a big deal but bitch that someone get a copy for free where no money exhanged hands at all?

Look at it this way -- let's say 5000 copies of a CD are printed (JUST AN EXAMBLE, not meant to resemble any actual number), and then it goes OOP. This means, there are theoretically at most 5000 people who should be allowed to be able to listen to the disc at any one time. If 100 of those make a copy and sell the disc, acording to the logic displayed above there's 5100 people who have the right to listen to it.
Now I ask, how is this ok when it's not ok for 200 people to just DL a copy for free?

Last edited by TerraEpon; Jan 13, 2012 at 06:44 PM.
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