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  #1  
Old Dec 16, 2010, 08:44 PM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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Why is this soundtrack labeled "remaster"? If this is supposed to refer to the bonus tracks, it should be "prototype/unused" instead.
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  #2  
Old Dec 16, 2010, 09:47 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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That was the aftermath of the canceled classification. I select "Arrangement" for now, as with most DS soundtracks that contain both original and enhanced versions.
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  #3  
Old Dec 17, 2010, 08:57 AM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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I would still argue for "prototype/unused," given that two of the bonus tracks are the prototype versions, including intros that were cut. This is specified in the liner notes.
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  #4  
Old Dec 17, 2010, 12:11 PM
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Yeah, that's a good point, but to change it, it may or may not affect many games which use the sequenced music but the soundtracks feature the original versions, including some popular entries like FFXII or SotN, and more recently, Okamiden. We had a lengthy discussion in the past, and the decision made was to hold off it until we figure out some ways to prevent confusion.
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  #5  
Old May 10, 2013, 04:43 PM
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Was trying to load Website - Creators Voice, which goes to http://touch-ds.jp/. It is dead, but I wasn't able to find the actual link that it may have moved to. Whatever it is.
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  #6  
Old May 10, 2013, 06:39 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
... games which use the sequenced music but the soundtracks feature the original versions ... like SotN
????????????????

Seriously, I never noticed any difference between the game and the soundtrack. True story?

EDIT: Wait no, SotN is all streams, I pulled them from the disc myself. The only thing that's sequenced is the Master Librarian track, and that's not included in the soundtrack. I'm very confused
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  #7  
Old May 10, 2013, 07:30 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
????????????????

Seriously, I never noticed any difference between the game and the soundtrack. True story?

EDIT: Wait no, SotN is all streams, I pulled them from the disc myself. The only thing that's sequenced is the Master Librarian track, and that's not included in the soundtrack. I'm very confused
Yeah, SotN uses the redbook audio! (The soundtrack's Obi claims it includes unconverted sound though)
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  #8  
Old May 13, 2013, 04:53 AM
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Pedantic point: it's actually XA format in the Playstation version, which is why it's somewhat fuzzy. The Saturn port doesn't use Redbook either, but it is streamed too.
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  #9  
Old May 13, 2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _if View Post
Pedantic point: it's actually XA format in the Playstation version, which is why it's somewhat fuzzy. The Saturn port doesn't use Redbook either, but it is streamed too.
Why would the XA format make the audio fuzzy but the Saturn format doesn't? Just curious.
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  #10  
Old May 14, 2013, 02:38 PM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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The Saturn used a combination of FM synth (which would not have to be compressed) and samples, whereas the Playstation is all samples, and all compressed together.
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  #11  
Old May 14, 2013, 06:15 PM
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aha, I see. thanks
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  #12  
Old May 16, 2013, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenofan 29A View Post
The Saturn used a combination of FM synth (which would not have to be compressed) and samples, whereas the Playstation is all samples, and all compressed together.
I think you're thinking of the Genesis using FM synth and samples. Sequenced Saturn music was all samples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
Why would the XA format make the audio fuzzy but the Saturn format doesn't? Just curious.
The Saturn version's music is all streamed, but it just must use a better format than XA. Apart from the really low bitrate lossy stuff used in many computer games after MIDI was moved away from, XA is one of the worst-sounding streamed formats around.
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  #13  
Old May 16, 2013, 02:55 PM
LiquidAcid LiquidAcid is offline
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I'm not finding any good source for this, but isn't what you call "XA" just ADPCM encoded audio stored in the XA mode (form 1 and 2) sectors? My question is, did Sony specify fixed encoding parameters for this?
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  #14  
Old May 17, 2013, 12:34 AM
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I don't know if there's anything different beyond the 37.8 kHz sampling rate. I can't make much of an educated guess by hearing because I can't think of a game that used straight-up ADPCM off the top of my head to compare. But it does sound quite notably worse than something like Stella Deus, which uses the ADPCM-based ADX format and sounds pretty much transparent. I wouldn't expect XA's sampling rate to be the cause of the issue since 32 kHz can sound perfectly fine, so maybe there is something different involved. Would just have to hear plain ~44.1 kHz ADPCM to say though.
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  #15  
Old May 17, 2013, 06:44 AM
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I found some clarificiation.

See the function parse_xa_audio_sector. Sampling rate can be either 37.8 or 18.9 kHz and bitrate either 4 or 8 (per sample). Yeah, that's not a lot.
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  #16  
Old May 17, 2013, 10:06 AM
GoldfishX GoldfishX is offline
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I have noticed that streamed audio from Playstation games can tend to sound rather compressed. Legend of Mana, for example, everything is compressed and is very hard to pick out individual instruments. Genso Suikoden is one of my favorite soundtracks, but the instruments have an unfortunate thin sound to them.
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  #17  
Old May 17, 2013, 10:15 AM
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Legend of Mana is almost entirely sequenced. Genso Suikoden is all streamed though and yeah, it's not great quality. XA strikes again.
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  #18  
Old May 20, 2013, 07:55 PM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _if View Post
I think you're thinking of the Genesis using FM synth and samples. Sequenced Saturn music was all samples.

The Saturn version's music is all streamed, but it just must use a better format than XA. Apart from the really low bitrate lossy stuff used in many computer games after MIDI was moved away from, XA is one of the worst-sounding streamed formats around.
To my knowledge the Saturn used both:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YMF292
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  #19  
Old May 20, 2013, 09:14 PM
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Hmm. Never heard Saturn music with FM synthesis. But then I was more of a Nintendo player myself and have only a handful of Saturn soundtracks.
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  #20  
Old May 21, 2013, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _if View Post
Hmm. Never heard Saturn music with FM synthesis. But then I was more of a Nintendo player myself and have only a handful of Saturn soundtracks.
From what I understand, it was mainly used as a secondary way to create sound effects. Why use 8 channel FM when you have access to 32 channel PCM? Or even fully streamed Redbook? I can't even tell you a song that uses full FM synthesis on the Saturn, and I know loads of game tunes. :P
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  #21  
Old May 21, 2013, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
Why use 8 channel FM when you have access to 32 channel PCM? Or even fully streamed Redbook?
Well, there's always bandwidth limitations. Especially true during the early years of gaming consoles.
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  #22  
Old May 21, 2013, 08:06 PM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _if View Post
Hmm. Never heard Saturn music with FM synthesis. But then I was more of a Nintendo player myself and have only a handful of Saturn soundtracks.
Usually it's used in conjunction with samples, as here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnheG-S5itc

I think the synthy bits are FM (with filters and such applied), while the percussion, flute, choir, and background chords are samples.
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  #23  
Old May 22, 2013, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
Why use 8 channel FM when you have access to 32 channel PCM?
The samples on Saturn are stored uncompressed (unlike on e.g. SNES and PS1/2) which while great for the quality limits the amount of samples that can be stored at once. So if the music is going for synth rock/pop style anyway FM was a way to introduce more instrument variety/higher sound quality in the limited space.

Another example where FM is used are the battle tracks in Shining the Holy Ark.
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  #24  
Old Jun 9, 2013, 05:55 PM
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A bit delayed but I don't want Datschge to think that type of info goes unappreciated. Thanks for the informative post! I checked out the Shining the Holy Ark battle music and indeed I do hear the FM synth.
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  #25  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:45 PM
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I saw that there were 24 posts in the discussion section for this album and got excited. Then I read the posts and they're all about audio format Hahaha! No one has anything good (or bad) to say about this fantastic soundtrack?

I'll start. This is definitely one of my favorites from Mitsuda. It's the last really lengthy RPG that he acted as sole composer for, and while I hope he scores many more in the future, if he never does another RPG like this, it's a fitting swan song for him. While it doesn't quite reach the emotional heights of Chrono Cross or Xenogears in my opinion, I feel that he achieved a great mixture of themes and interesting arrangements on this album. It's a quintessential Mitsuda album, with his unmistakable Celtic flair and immediately memorable melodies and motifs.

I actually just finished doing an arrangement of one of these tracks for an upcoming arranged album. The album is still being kept secret, but once it's officially announced I'll post on here again and let you all know what track I arranged and all about the album
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  #26  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 04:20 PM
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I enjoy it a lot. I actually used the majority of it to replace the Tales of Graces soundtrack while I played the game.

Like you said, skitch, it's the last full-length RPG he's scored by himself. I also hope it won't be the last.
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  #27  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 06:09 PM
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Yeah, a lot of the songs reminds me of Chrono Trigger, in terms of composition and/or atmosphere. While I'm glad Mitsuda has been branching out, doing work for pop artists and NHK dramas etc, I do hope he returns to fully score a JRPG in this style again someday.
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  #28  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 06:33 PM
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I've enjoyed his latest releases, such as his work on Inazuma Eleven and the recent NHK special on the comet. I've already preordered the soundtrack for the anime "Kuroshitsuji Book of Circus". But there's nothing like a full video game soundtrack with Mitsuda solely at the helm as composer. The worlds he's able to create through having full control of the music in the game is incredible. It feels like it's been a while since I've felt completely immersed in a Mitsuda world.
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  #29  
Old Feb 3, 2018, 09:11 PM
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- Changed ASCII - to Unicode ー in Japanese tracklist
- Removed - / ー from both tracklists on D1M21, D3M18 as they are not present anywhere in the inserts.
- I think an argument can be made to remove the spaces around the ASCII dashes (-) in the English tracklist as it's a clear indication of a track description.
- I think the translation for M21 is incorrect, especially given the track correction to remove the '-'. I think it should be "Flames Running Across Largo Bridge".
- Title case fixes on D1M2, D3M16
- Typo on Japanese D2M4

Last edited by dancey; Feb 11, 2018 at 10:03 PM.
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  #30  
Old Feb 4, 2018, 02:00 AM
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or smth like "largo bridge ablaze/aflame/afire"
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