SSCX-10040: CHRONO CROSS ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK

[Hellacia]

Originally Posted by LiquidAcid

Keep in mind that this frame "unit" only exists for CDDA / Redbook. Since we're also dealing with digital-only releases here, "frames" doesn't make much sense there. If we're only interested in digital media, then the sample count is probably most accurate. However this already fails when we take the other analogue media (like tape or vinyl) into consideration.

You're right, sample counts would make more sense for digital media. As for analog media, they don't have distinguishable track lengths because... they're analog. So, not only are frames, samples, and any other fractional measurement of time inapplicable to analog media, so are the minutes and seconds themselves, so I don't really think analog releases are an issue. Also, I've already suggested a way to be able to not include the fractional measurement anyway.

We could use samples, if that suits the whole database better.

[Kaleb.G]

2-26 "MAGICAL DREAMERS ~Wind and Stars and Waves and~"

...and what?

[DarioEMeloD]

MAGICAL DREAMERS ～風と星と波と～
MAGICAL DREAMERS ~Kaze to Hoshi to Nami to~

I don't know japanese, but I guess it's just an understandable mistranslation. =P

[PsychoZeke]

I admit I'm still in my diapers when it comes to Japanese, but shouldn't it be, "The Wind, the Stars, and the Waves"?

I'm more inclined in accepting that. Personal preference, of course.

[aquagon]

A more appropriate translation, in my opinion, would be: "With the Wind, the Stars, and the Waves".
This is due to the と being translatable as either "and" or "with", depending on context and position in the phrase.

[Dag]

"AとBと...Nと" is a 'complete list' ("A and B and ... N", "A, B, ...N" etc). The last と can be optionally dropped. Or so sayeth my books.
と isn't 'and', just marks the nouns as a list. So "(the) Wind(s) ,/and (the) Star(s) ,/and (the) Wave(s)", you decide.
(the main EN tracklist has other wonky translations too...)


I don't think you can mix "list/and と" and "companion/with と" with the same nouns though. At least I haven't seen it.

[Kaleb.G]

Good points. Thanks! Anyway, I assume if it were to be an open/partial list, it would end with an ellipses or tilde/wavedash. Let's come to a consensus so I can update the translation.

[Hellacia]

Not clear on why the default picture was changed. Don't we use the outermost front packaging, like slipcases, for all defaults? This isn't the slipcase. Or is this soundtrack some sort of special case (no pun intended on case)?

Also to be nitpicky this one should be rotated if used for a default and called Front (display).

EDIT: Regarding the 2-26 track name discussion:

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

Let's come to a consensus so I can update the translation.

This CD has, in English, Magical Dreamers -Wind, Stars, and Waves-. We could match the translation up with that, just so it's all consistent. It's a fine translation anyway.

[Cedille]

Originally Posted by Hellacia

N
Also to be nitpicky this one should be rotated if used for a default and called Front (display).

Not nitpicking. I think at least a display image shouldn't be something that forces our visitors to incline their heads. I also think spines should be trimmed. I don't mind an Obi on the front, but quite a few of us seem to think otherwise. Too bad this soundtrack was one of my earliest purchases and is such bad condition that I can't provide a cover from my copy (although easily available from Internet)

[Kaleb.G]

Originally Posted by Hellacia

This CD has, in English, Magical Dreamers -Wind, Stars, and Waves-. We could match the translation up with that, just so it's all consistent. It's a fine translation anyway.

Done, and thanks! I kept the capitalization and wavedash/tilde usage the same as indicated on this album though, which consequently matches up with the "alternate translation". I'm actually wondering why we even have that. Ideally we should only have one translated tracklist. There are so many different translations of game soundtracks that we shouldn't have to list them all.

[Hellacia]

Oh, I meant to mention something about the little discrepancies with capitalization and tilde usage, but you handled it just like I would have. Thanks for making the change

And yeah, this is such a popular soundtrack that, like its predecessor Chrono Trigger, there's much debate over the tracklist translation. For some reason there are two actual tracklists here though. I suppose it would take further debate to decide how to merge the two (or even if neither of the translations are good for any given track). I do agree though, it's weird to have two actual tracklists in the database.

Originally Posted by Cedille

I think at least a display image shouldn't be something that forces our visitors to incline their heads. I also think spines should be trimmed. I don't mind an Obi on the front, but quite a few of us seem to think otherwise. Too bad this soundtrack was one of my earliest purchases and is such bad condition that I can't provide a cover from my copy (although easily available from Internet)

I agree, spines should be trimmed. I prefer no obi on the front, but obviously if that's the only picture we have of the front then it's fine.

If you let me know which cover we should actually use - Case Front or Slipcase Front - then depending on what it is I wouldn't mind rotating the image and removing the spines. Sure there will be an unnoticeable amount of quality loss in the new picture, but who cares, right?

[Dag]

I went ahead and changed the display to slipcase front, as suggested here ("The default image is the one that shows when the album is displayed. It's generally the first image you see of the package (Box, Digipack for complex packages, or the Booklet Front for most or the normal releases)")


I don't think this one needs alts too, since it's mostly place names with official US equivalents. For the "fused" tracklist, here are my suggestions, what do you think?

Spoiler:

01 CHRONO CROSS ~Scars Left By Time~ / CHRONO CROSS ~The Scars of Time~
> CHRONO CROSS ~The Scars of Time~ [from this album]
02 Between Life and Death / The Point between Life and Death
> The Brink of Death [this is a popular translation and I think it fits well]
03 Arni Village: Home / Arni Village: Home
> Arni Village: Home [US]
04 Field of Time: Home World / The Grasslands of Time: Home World
> The Grasslands of Time: Home World [field is a bit more ambiguous]
05 Dance With the Lizard / Dancing with the Lizards
> Dance with the Lizards ["踊れ/dance" is a command here]
06 Reminiscence ~Unerasable Memory~ / Reminiscence ~Indelible Memories~
> Reminiscence ~Indelible Feelings~ [想い=feelings, thoughts; I think "unerasable" sound a bit worse]
07 On the Banks of a Dream: Another World / On the Shores of a Dream: Another World
> On the Shores of a Dream: Another World [shore seems a bit more fitting and "sea-like"]
08 Arni Village: Another / Arni Village: Another
> Arni Village: Another [US]
09 Ephemeral Memory / Transient Memories
> Ephemeral/Fleeting Feelings
10 Lost Fragment / Lost Fragments
> Lost Fragments
11 Drowned Valley / Drowned Valley
> Fossil Valley [US] [lit. "Drowned Valley"]
12 Telmina: Another / Termina: Another
> Termina: Another [US]
13 They Who Are Gone / Those Who Have Departed
> Those Who Have Departed [maybe "The Departed"?]
14 Forest of Cutting Shadows / Shadow Forest
> Shadow Forest [US]
15 Snakebone Mansion / Viper Manor
> Viper Manor [US] (lit. "Snakebone Mansion/Manor")
16 Victory ~A Gift of Spring~ / Victory ~Gift of Spring~
> Victory ~Gift of Spring~
17 Child Lost in Time / The Lost Child of Time
> Lost Child of Time [both work but the latter is less assuming]
18 Galdorb: Another / Guldove: Another
> Guldove: Another [US]
19 Swamp of the Hydra / Hydra Marshes
> Hydra Marshes [US]
20 Fragment of a Dream / Fragments of a Dream
> Fragments of a Dream
21 Voyage: Another World / Voyage: Another World
> Voyage: Another World
22 Ghost Ship / Ghost Ship
> Ghost Ship [US]
23 Deathfire Mountain / Mount Pyre
> Mount Pyre [US]
24 Fortress of Ancient Dragons / Fort Dragonia
> Fort Dragonia [US] [lit. Ancient Dragon Fortress]
25 Pathetic / Grief
> Grief


01 Beginning of the Dream / The Beginning of a Dream
> The Beginning of the Dream [no real preference here]
02 A Narrow Space Between Dimensions / The Bend of Time
> The Bend of Time [US]
03 Telmina: Home / Termina: Home
> Termina: Home [US]
04 The Dragoons / Dragon Knights
> The Dragoons [US]
05 Voyage: Home World / Voyage: Home World
> Voyage: Home World
06 Galdorb: Home / Guldove: Home
> Guldove: Home [US]
07 Mabule: Home / Marbule: Home
> Marbule: Home [US]
08 Zelbess / Zelbess
> Zelbess [US]
09 The Splendidly Surprising Grand Magic Troupe / The Super Astonishingly Great Magic Troupe
> The Super Astonishingly Great Magic Troupe [no idea if this has US translation]
10 Nap / Nap
> Nap
11 Chronomantique / Chronomantique
> Chronomantique
12 Dilemma / Dilemma
> Dilemma
13 Optimism / Optimism
> Optimism
14 Isle of the Dead / Isle of the Damned
> Isle of the Damned [US]
15 Dead Sea/Tower of Destruction / The Dead Sea - Tower of Geddon
> The Dead Sea - Tower of Geddon [US]
16 Prisoners of Fate / Those Imprisoned by Fate
> Those Imprisoned by Fate [more in line with the original]
17 A Light Already Lost / Light, Already Lost
> Light, Already Lost
18 Island of the Earth Dragon / Earth Dragon Isle
> Earth Dragon Isle [US]
19 Navel of the World / Gaea's Navel
> Gaea's Navel [US] (lit. "World's Navel")
20 Gale / Hurricane
> Gale [no real difference, I think it's a more common translation]
21 Victory ~A Cry in Summer~ / Victory ~Call of Summer~
> Victory ~Call of Summer~
22 Mabule: Another / Marbule: Another
> Marbule: Another
23 Magic From the Fairies / Magic of the Fairies
> Magic from the Fairies ['magic the faeries gave']
24 Etude 1 / Etude 1
> Etude 1
25 Etude 2 / Etude 2
> Etude 2
26 MAGICAL DREAMERS ~Wind, Stars, and Waves~ / MAGICAL DREAMERS ~Wind, Stars, and Waves~
> MAGICAL DREAMERS ~Wind, Stars, and Waves~ [from the other album]


01 Garden of God / Garden of the Gods
> Sea of Eden [US] [lit. "Garden of God"]
02 Chronopolis / Chronopolis
> Chronopolis [US]
03 FATES ~The God of Destiny~ / FATES ~God of Destiny~
> FATES ~God of Destiny~ [or rather, "God of Fate"...]
04 Seamoon Sea / Jellyfish Sea
> Jellyfish Sea [US] [海月=jellyfish, not seamoon]
05 Burning Orphanage / An Orphanage in Flames
> Orphanage in Flames
06 The Girl Who Stole the Stars / The Girl Who Stole the Stars
> The Girl Who Stole the Stars
07 The Dream That Time Dreams / A Time of a Dream
> A Dream Time Has [cleaner I think, maybe this has US equivalent in the script]
08 Dragon's Prayer / Prayer of the Dragons
> Prayer of the Dragons [not sure if plural fits better]
09 Tower of Stars / Tower of the Stars
> Terra Tower [US] [lit. "Star Tower", "Tower of the Stars", etc]
10 Frozen Flame / Frozen Flame
> Frozen Flame
11 Dragon God / Dragon God
> Dragon God
12 In the Darkness of Time / In the Darkness of Time
> In the Darkness of Time [the original place is 時の闇の彼方=Darkness Beyond Time]
13 Life ~A Distant Promise~ / Life ~Faraway Promise~
> Life ~A Distant Promise~ ["A Distant Promise" is used in Chrono Trigger and Xenogear US OSTs, so...]
14 Reminiscence ~Unerasable Memory~ / Reminiscence ~Indelible Memories~
> Reminiscence ~Indelible Feelings~ [same as before]
15 RADICAL DREAMERS ~The Jewel That Has Not Been Stolen~ / Radical Dreamers ~The Jewel That cannot be Stolen~
> RADICAL DREAMERS ~The Jewel That Cannot Been Stolen~ ["Unstealable Jewel" maybe better?]
16 Fragment of a Dream / Fragments of a Dream
> Fragments of a Dream [same as before]

(note: [US] are names as translated in the US version. No official English place name for the JP version exist I think)

[seanne]

I changed it from the slipcase since that was only included with the limited edition/first press. Also since the slipcase scan is wrongly oriented, giving a false impression about the geometry of the album package/case. I guess we have still to come up with a standard for this though.

[Fearin]

Magic troupe song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Q1BUSJE#t=243s
Plays when watching sneff perform his magic on jack & jill, not sure about the jugglers or salt and pepper's comedy act.

Time's Dream

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Main_Page.html

May help with translations of place names or such, like track 12 on the last disc seems to be the music played at Darkness Beyond Time

Or how FATES is actually named FATE

[Snjóúlfur]

1-15: 蛇骨 is a proper name, Jakotsu. It was changed to Viper for the US and is literally snake bone. There is a character in Inuyasha with the same name

2-2: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Interstice would be a proper concise translation. Bad US translation

2-4: I really wonder if this all started from Final Fantasy IV but dragoon is a mounted knight and really does not make much sense in either game since they are not mounted (nor use muskets where the word came from to begin with)

[Hellacia]

Originally Posted by Dag

I don't think this one needs alts too, since it's mostly place names with official US equivalents. For the "fused" tracklist, here are my suggestions, what do you think?

Cool, I came here looking clear up this tracklist mess. We really only need one tracklist here. Here are my thoughts on some - I've just taken your proposed changes and prepended the disc-track number to them.

Spoiler:

102 The Brink of Death [this is a popular translation and I think it fits well]

I like [The Point] Between Life and Death more. Maybe that's just me.

106 Reminiscence ~Indelible Feelings~ [想い=feelings, thoughts; I think "unerasable" sound a bit worse]

Just to back this up: unerasable isn't a word. Indelible is the word for "unerasable". Just type unerasable into any program with spell check (Microsoft Word, Firefox, etc) and it will give you a red underline for it. Don't listen to Google, it calls everything a word.

109 Ephemeral/Fleeting Feelings

This is totally what I came up with for this track, Ephemeral Feelings. I don't know where "memories" came from.

111 Fossil Valley [US] [lit. "Drowned Valley"]

Sometimes I like to change the name to match an English area name, and sometimes not, and that usually depends on if the track name is mirroring the Japanese name of the area rather than trying to creatively describe it. In the Japanese version of the game, is this area called Drowned Valley? Or, is it Fossil Valley, and the soundtrack is being creative? If this area is called Drowned Valley in the Japanese version, I would call this track Fossil Valley in the English tracklist. Otherwise, I would stick with Drowned Valley, since not everything that appears to be mirroring the name of an area is necessarily doing so.

124 Fort Dragonia [US] [lit. Ancient Dragon Fortress]

Same thing I said for Drowned Valley. Area name, or creative description?

201 The Beginning of the Dream [no real preference here]

I think this is a phrase the needs an article in order to sound natural, so I'd start it with "the".

202 The Bend of Time [US]

Same thing I said for Drowned Valley. Area name, or creative description?

214 Isle of the Damned [US]

This seems to be mirroring an area name, but I'm not sure. Is it?

301 Sea of Eden [US] [lit. "Garden of God"]

Same thing I said for Drowned Valley. Area name, or creative description?

305 Orphanage in Flames

Just curious, why this particular phrasing?

307 A Dream Time Has [cleaner I think, maybe this has US equivalent in the script]

Though I'll try to fight Japanese battles, I'm more comfortable fighting English ones. Typically, ending a statement with "has" is just bad English. It's not grammatically incorrect, but it's all kinds of... weird. For example, rather than saying "He's the best friend I have," say "He's my best friend." It's just cleaner. Having said that, I think this actually isn't as "clean" as The Dream [That] Time Dreams, with the word "that" optionally being omitted because it's a conjunction - The Dream Time Dreams is no less descriptive or coherent.

308 Prayer of the Dragons [not sure if plural fits better]

Just curious, why this particular phrasing?

I didn't look over all the tracks because some tracks I just don't care about... these are the ones I'm most interested in. Nice list of changes, hopefully we can merge these tracklists soon.

EDIT: Now I noticed this:

Originally Posted by Dag

[US] are names as translated in the US version. No official English place name for the JP version exist I think

Do you mean the areas don't have names in the Japanese version? I'm slightly confused, sorry. If so, I wouldn't change any names to English area names, since they wouldn't be intended to be the name of the area.

[Fearin]

From what I can tell here is a japanese let's play of the series. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...2&feature=plcp
Can find your answers there maybe.

[Dag]

To clarify, tracks with an "[US]" tag means those are names straight from the game (not a creative description), and that's the name in the US version.

For example, 1.11 "溺れ谷", there is an area in the (JP) game called just that, plain name. In the US version it was named "Fossil Valley". If you translate literally it's ~"Drowned Valley". Same with the rest.

The JP game itself, official site, guidebooks, etc never wrote "溺れ谷" in English, so there isn't an 'official translation (in the JP ver.)' (I mention this because some games ex. FF13 JP the areas had a JP name + official English name shown in the game, but several were changed in the US version). Now, the US ver. chose "Fossil Valley" so that's ok too.

In most tracks the US translation was quite tasteful so I only put a "lit." translation in a few.


- 305 Orphanage in Flames: the wording matches how it's written, no verb there. Does it sounds strange?
- 307: got it, thought repeating "dream" like that was a bit off.
- 308: well, it's either Dragon(s)'s Prayer(s) or Prayer(s) of the Dragon(s), can't really say which one is better. (I suspect this was for a scene with the dragon gods but it has been a while...)


EDIT: ok, added, US names and all. See my prev post for the originals. minor notes:
102: went with "Brink of Death", seems a bit more used
212 dilemma > predicament: makes more sense in context (the JP is ~'a difficult situation, tight spot')

[Hellacia]

Oh, you just meant the Japanese never wrote the area names in English. Gotcha. But if they are area names, then we should totally use the US area names instead. And thanks for the link Fearin, if I'm feeling adventurous I might check it out.

As for 305 and 308, nope, they don't sound strange to me at all, I just wondered if there was a reason you chose that wording because of a way the Japanese wrote it or something, or maybe you were taking it from the US game's context like the area names. If, in the game, you're talking to multiple dragons at that point, then dragon should probably be plural. Don't know about prayer (I'd just go with singular but maybe that doesn't make as much sense).

[Hellacia]

Okay, based on this

Originally Posted by Dag

102: went with "Brink of Death", seems a bit more used

I changed the name of track 102, it was previously "The Brink of Death / Between Life and Death"... I think you meant "The Brink of Death" though... :S

Oh and thanks for doing this! Great to have one tracklist for this soundtrack.

[Dag]

Oh boy :S (I was on the fence till the last minute )

Anyway thanks you for your coments. Translation is slow and thankless job, it's nice to see somebody out there finds those details useful (so lonely (lulz)).

[Hellacia]

You do good translations, I feel like I should pester you to translate all the soundtracks I like that don't have English tracklists yet But this is a classic great as far as VGM goes, so it needed a good English tracklist as it undoubtedly gets way more traffic than other soundtracks.

[student41269]

A couple of other suggestions for the tracklist, from when I attempted a translation a few years back:

106. Reminiscence ~Undying Feelings~
A more romantic reading, perhaps, of the literal 'cannot fade', 'cannot be erased'.

307. Time's Dream
It does look like there's more to it in Japanese, with the 'miru', but this is essentially the meaning and I liked the simplicity of this in English.

315. RADICAL DREAMERS ~The Forbidden Treasure~
Yes, this one's a bit of a struggle! Again I felt this translation captured the meaning while also sounding like more elegant English. For what it's worth, there is sort-of-official backup for this, albeit in French - if you watch the end credits of the US game, the ending theme is listed as RADICAL DREAMERS ~Le Trésor Interdit~.

[DarioEMeloD]

Then it'd be better if we use Le Trésor Interdit instead, I think =P

[Dag]

Since we are going with US names Le Trésor Interdit would fit, 1.06 I like too. Time's Dream seems kind of plain tho.

[Xenofan 29A]

"The Dream that Time Dreams" would be the most literal, I suppose.

[aquagon]

If I'm allowed to chime in, "Prayer of the Dragons" doesn't play in any event scenes, and it's actually used as the area theme for the second half of the final dungeon.

As for "Time's Dream", I'd say that it looks good enough like this.

[Phonograph]

why not the "I Have a Dream" version where "I" is replaced by "Time" ?

[Fearin]

Originally Posted by Phonograph

why not the "I Have a Dream" version where "I" is replaced by "Time" ?

Do you mean "Time has a Dream"?

"The Dream of Time"
It can be read to be a dream time has, or a dream that there is more time for whatever events may occur that it is needed.

[DanteLectro]

Trivia: in 2.12 - Predicament, there's a male chorus sample that says "zoom"; it's also in Rex's Lair on Metal Gear Solid 1's OST.