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  #1  
Old Sep 7, 2013, 11:19 AM
TJF588 TJF588 is offline
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Default How are song lyrics handled here, if at all?

A forum search for "lyrics" didn't get me far, so a new thread!

Many of the albums I've updated/added have accompanying lyrics (both in romaji and with English translations), but I'm not aware of any assigned "spot" for them. Does the VGMdb concern itself with lyrics, and if so, how should I go aboot it?
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  #2  
Old Sep 7, 2013, 11:50 AM
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There are many sites that specialize in lyrics as far as I know. This database doesn't. I guess you can leave a forum post with some lyrics if you feel the need to. However, no album fields should contain lyrics.
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Old Sep 7, 2013, 01:58 PM
TJF588 TJF588 is offline
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Alright, I might go that route. I'm particular enough to personally transcribe details, so at least spans of lyrics wouldn't go to waste... I guess?
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  #4  
Old Sep 7, 2013, 02:26 PM
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It probably wouldn't be wise for us to host lyrics anyways because they are copyright protected.
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Old Sep 7, 2013, 03:02 PM
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True, true, you're right. Best to be safe.
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  #6  
Old Sep 7, 2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextday View Post
It probably wouldn't be wise for us to host lyrics anyways because they are copyright protected.
Aren't scans also copyright protected? :P

Also, I wonder what would be the case of providing only fan translated lyrics, I think those would be copyright protected for the translators if I recall correctly. Still, having lyrics here would be good.
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Old Sep 8, 2013, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razakin View Post
Aren't scans also copyright protected? :P

Also, I wonder what would be the case of providing only fan translated lyrics, I think those would be copyright protected for the translators if I recall correctly. Still, having lyrics here would be good.
I agree with Razakin. I laughed at "best to be safe," because you are safe now. Folks tend to forget that the whole album, as a product, is copyrighted. Not only the data stored on the disks falls under such thing. One isn't allowed to "broadcast nor stream" any part of the product, without the proper authorization.

Do some fear that some label, or any copyright agent could come here to request a removal of lyrics? Well, here's something which you should finally consider: they can already do that for most of the cover/booklet/disk label scans which this website is allegedly hosting.

I honestly don't see the harm in trying to allow lyrics here, too... and if something bad happens, I'd say "cross that bridge when it comes," you don't seem to have a problem with the hosting of scans, regardless of what they may bring.
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Last edited by ilef; Sep 8, 2013 at 12:44 AM.
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Old Sep 8, 2013, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilef View Post
I agree with Razakin. I laughed at "best to be safe," because you are safe now. Folks tend to forget that the whole album, as a product, is copyrighted. Not only the data stored on the disks falls under such thing. One isn't allowed to "broadcast nor stream" any part of the product, without the proper authorization.
I'm glad, laughter is healthy

I didn't want to mention scans but yeah... If you think about it, we weren't "safe" from the moment first scan was uploaded. And what about unofficial translations of tracklists (for the cases when official one doesn't exist of course)? Are we even allowed to do that, also legally speaking? Everything is part of the copyrighted intelectual property, title included. And we definitely weren't authorized to translate it.

So in a way, we're screwed And now lyrics should become OK too? Interesting.

Last edited by Efendija; Sep 8, 2013 at 01:33 AM.
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  #9  
Old Sep 8, 2013, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efendija View Post
I'm glad, laughter is healthy

I didn't want to mention scans but yeah... If you think about it, we weren't "safe" from the moment first scan was uploaded. And what about unofficial translations of tracklists (for the cases when official one doesn't exist of course)? Are we even allowed to do that, also legally speaking? Everything is part of the copyrighted intelectual property, title included. And we definitely weren't authorized to translate it.

So in a way, we're screwed And now lyrics should become OK too? Interesting.
I didn't mean to sound offensive, I offer my apologies if I came off like that, it's just that... I find the whole thing absurd. This website is already doing so much stuff which would be infringing of third parties' copyrights, for the sake of fair use. Bringing up copyright as the reason one thing isn't "officially" represented here contradicts part of "your" (intended as VGMdb's) actions.
Plus, it is my understanding that up until now the Staff decided to take "we deal with such issues if and when they show up" approach.

I agree that things would become "messy" if lyrics were to be displayed on the album's page, but I recall messages stating that Staff wasn't really sure about having such stuff even in the threads. I just don't understand what kind of reasoning is having one thing "OK", and the other a "NOPE". It's not like we'd be sharing digital copies of the albums, I've seen the presence of scans here "defended" with the motivation: it isn't really hurting sales, like a share of digital encodes would do.
Same could be said for lyrics?
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Last edited by ilef; Sep 8, 2013 at 01:56 AM.
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  #10  
Old Sep 8, 2013, 06:51 AM
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I don't see the point of adding lyrics to the database. There are sites that, quite frankly, just do it better. There'd be a serious issue with accuracy and validation -- almost all lyric sites have incorrect lyrics and I'd rather not wastes our already precious Trusted Editors+ time with validating lyrics. It's also harder, if not impossible, for those of us that aren't native speakers to add them, unless the lyrics are provided in the inserts and we're bored enough to do kanji lookup for 3+ paragraphs worth of lyrics. Vocal songs are also primarily an anime thing, not a game thing (although there is crossover). Even if it were to be allowed, you'd have to have added field(s) for it and you'd have to have added html and sql work for it. I don't even know if it's realistically possible to provide a lyrics field input method without having data at the track level instead of the album level, which we don't have. In a perfect world, you'd be able to click a vocal song and it would popup a nice jscript mouseover or click page with the kanji side-by-side with the romaji and the English but that's a lot of work.

tldr: Developer efforts are better spent elsewhere, although I don't see the problem if you want to throw them in a spoiler or code tag in the respective album thread(s), but that's up to the site administration
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Old Sep 8, 2013, 07:13 AM
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only lyrics I made (don't remember how many, ~50?) were on chudahs-corner (RIP)
and as far I know, chudah never got notice from copyrights holders for removing any contents
very honestly, I don't see why credited lyrics would be a problem, a lot of japanese sites have lyrics (ok some of them can't be copy/paste) and the world still revolves

also, why putting lyrics on internet is copyrights infringement?
I think I already asked that but I tend to forget things like that
if it's credited, where is the problem?
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  #12  
Old Sep 8, 2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
also, why putting lyrics on internet is copyrights infringement?
I think I already asked that but I tend to forget things like that
if it's credited, where is the problem?
There are music publishers which earn money by publishing score and lyric books. Mostly affects popular songs and fully depends on the eagerness of local collecting societies, but the issue is a real one.
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  #13  
Old Sep 8, 2013, 10:05 AM
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Lyrics were on the first incarnation of this site, before we became VGMdb. The problems in the past arose from lyrics being uploaded here after they were copied from other fan-sites. At launch, we chose to leave lyrics off and focus on the core mission.

Anyway, dancey's post above mirrors our current thoughts on lyrics.
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