Castlevania: Track Translation Thread

[BlazingAbyss]

As some may already know, we have several tracks throughout the various Castlevania albums which feature inconsistent translations. Thus, I made this thread in the hopes that we could start a discussion about said translations and potentially come to a general consensuses on which ones to use in order to create a bit more consistency between said albums. I've gone ahead and created a list of most of the applicable tracks, but there's probably a few that I missed, so feel free to bring up any that I may have overlooked.

While there are English titles for the Castlevania soundtracks featured on iTunes and Spotify, I don't feel that they can really be considered "official" translations since as pointed out by the user, zierts, the titles featured on those releases were taken straight from their respective VGMdb tracklists. Furthermore, it would also appear that some of the titles featured in Grimoire of Souls' music player were likely taken from the unofficial translations featured on VGMDB as well. That being said, if they're going to continue using the unofficial translations featured on VGMDB then it's all the more reason to have them looked over.


Tracks

Spoiler:

Haunted Castle
悲劇のWedding March: We have "Tragic Wedding March," "Wedding March of Tragedy," and "Wedding March Tragedy."

悪魔の復活: We have "Demon Revival" and "Revival of the Devil." I would instead suggest "Demonic Revival," (although Demon Revival or "Demon's Revival" works too.) This is the regular boss theme in Haunted Castle, but since "devil" is typically used to refer to Dracula specifically it seems inaccurate to me to use the term devil here as this track is used for every boss except Dracula.

悪魔たちのララバイ: We have "Lullaby of the Demons" and "Lullaby of the Devils." "たち" indicates that "悪魔" is meant to be plural, however for the same reason as mentioned above, I feel that "Demons" makes more sense than "Devils" in this context. However, I do think that "Devils" rolls off the tongue a lot better than "Demons" here.

悪魔たちに送るララバイ: We have "A Lullaby Sent to the Devils" and "Lullaby from the Demons." I think that "Lullaby for the Demons" or "A Lullaby for the Demons" might sound more natural than the two translations that we currently have, that is unless there's something about the original text that I'm missing.

Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
メンバー参入デモ: We have "Member Joining Demo" and "Member Entry Demo." However, I would instead recommend "Member Introduction Demo." The three potential party members all introduce themselves, but since you can choose to not take them with you, "joining" doesn't always apply. Furthermore, since you battle Grant and Alucard before they can join, "entry" doesn't necessarily apply either.

ドラキュラ城地下: We have "Under Dracula Castle" and "Dracula Castle Underground." I prefer "Underground" since that appears to be what 地下 is most commonly translated as when referring to this type of area throughout the series. Considering that "ドラキュラ城" is often translated as "Dracula's Castle" throughout the series, I suppose we could also do something like, "Dracula's Castle: Underground" as well.

Super Castlevania IV
魔物の森: We have "Demon Forest" and "Forest of Evil Spirits." "魔物" can also be read as "monster" (ex. Atelier Lilie, Dragon Quest V, Yu-Gi-Oh!), "devil," or "beast." Apparently, "魔物" refers to a category of yōkai that feast on human souls. Furthermore, the English release of LoD translated "魔物" as "evil spirits." While often conflated, yōkai aren't exactly the same thing as demons in the Western sense of the word, but I think I'm still leaning more towards "Demon Forest" here since I feel that it fits better with the game's European setting.

登城: We have "Ascension to the Castle," "Going into the Castle," and "In the Castle." I would instead recommend, "Ascent to the Castle." Unless I’m mistaken, the term “ascension” would typically be used to refer to one’s status rising to a higher position, whereas “ascent” would be used to refer to the physical act of walking or climbing upwards.

カラクリ館: We have "Clockwork Mansion," "Mechanical Trick Mansion," and "The Trick Manor." The Advance Collection sound test for Circle of the Moon uses Clockwork Mansion. However, "Trick Mansion" might be a more accurate choice given that there isn't really any clockwork mechanisms in the stage. Furthermore, according to the map featured in the History of Castlevania book from the Anniversary Collection, one of the areas in that stage is even called the "Trick Room." However, it should be noted that the Japanese version of the book lists this area as "ザコ仕掛の部屋" rather than "カラクリ館."

大広間: We have "Banquet Hall" and "Great Hall." Either term could be used to describe the area in question, so I suppose it would just be a matter of preference. I think that I might be leaning more towards "Great Hall" though since "Banquet Hall" would seem to imply that it's primarily a dinning area, but it appears to be more akin to a ballroom judging by the presence of the dancing ghosts.

側近の間 / 側近の部屋: We have "The Attendants' Rooms" and "Rooms of the Closest." It was written as "側近の間" on the original Akumajo Dracula Best 2, but for whatever reason, it was changed to "側近の部屋" in every subsequent release, including the reprint of Akumajo Dracula Best 2. This track is used throughout the final stretch of Dracula's castle where you encounter Slogra, Gaibon, and Death. "側近" would be "aide," "attendant," "advisor," "confidant," "entourage," "close associate," etc. Death has been described as "Dracula's confidant" in his enemy data entries, but it looks like the Japanese entries (at least in the DS games,) used "腹心" ("ドラキュラの腹心") rather than "側近." Besides, the track also refers to Slogra and Gaibon (who are Death's direct subordinates,) and I don't feel that something as personal as "advisor" or "confidant" would really be an appropriate term to describe the relationship those two would have with Dracula. Personally I'm leaning towards "Attendant's Room, " as I think that "Attendants' Rooms" sounds way too awkward. While it's true that the three each have their own floor, I don't believe that it's necessary to reflect that in the track title. An "Attendant's Room" would still be an accurate description of each separate area, and it's not like it would ever be necessary say something like "Save Rooms" or "Trap Rooms" for a title, since "Save/Trap Room" would simply refer to all "Save/Trap Rooms" in the game.

Castlevania: Rondo of Blood
獄幻界乱舞: We have "Wild Dance in Phantasmic Hell," "Dancing in Phantasmic Hell," and "Dance in Phantasmic Hell." The Advance Collection used "Wild Dance in Phantasmic Hell" while Grimoire of Souls used "Dancing in Phantasmic Hell." Strangely, DXC titled it as "Dark Desires," but I imagine that was just due to character limitations or something since that translation has nothing to do with the original Japanese text.

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
聖霊の扉: We have "Door of Spirits," "Doorway of Spirits," "Door of Holy Spirits" (SotN,) and strangely, "Fairy's Doorway" (DXC.) However, unless I'm mistaken, isn't it referring to the "Holy Spirit," (aka the Holy Ghost) rather than just some regular spirit(s?)

しもべたちの祭典: We have "Festival of Servants" (SotN) and "The Horde's Festival" (DXC & HD.) I'm not sure if one reading would be more "correct" than the other or not though.

✓ 神々たちのレクイエム: We have "Requiem for the Gods" (SotN & GoS,) "Requiem of the Gods" (20th anniversary promo CD,) and "Requiem to the Gods" (DXC) I'm leaning a bit more towards "Requiem for the Gods" since it goes along with some other tracks from the series with similar titles like, "Requiem for the Nameless Victims" and "Requiem for the Dark Souls."

水晶のしずく: We have "Crystal Teardrop," (SotN) "Crystal Teardrops," "Crystal Drop" (GoS,) "Crystal Drops," and strangely, "Misted Crystal Ball" (DXC.) "Crystal Drop" is also the name of a stage in GoS, which is also written as "水晶のしずく" in the Japanese version. Interestingly, the quest book in the Japanese version still lists the quest locations in English. I think that "Crystal Teardrop" has a better ring to it, but "Crystal Drop" appears to be the most "official" translation considering its presence in the Japanese release of GoS.

パール舞踏曲: We have "Dance of Pearls," "Dance of Pales," (SotN,) "Waltz of Pearls" (LoI Sampler,) "Waltz of the Pearls" (DXC,) and "Pearl Dance Music." The original title uses "舞踏曲" rather than "舞曲" (like "Dance of Gold,") so I believe that "waltz" would be a more appropriate choice of word here than "dance." I think that "Waltz of Pearls" would be the best option among these choices.

さまよえる魂: We have "Wandering Ghosts" (SotN) and "Wandering Souls" (DXC.) I'm pretty sure that the latter would be the more faithful translation of the two.

深淵への扉: We have "Door to the Abyss" (SotN,) "Doorway of the Abyss," and "Gates of Hell" (DXC.) I can see what they were going for with the DXC translation, but "深淵" would be "abyss" not "hell," although "Gates of the Abyss" would still be a valid option.

天界への扉: We have "Heavenly Doorway" (SotN,) "Doorway to Heaven" (GoS) and "Gates of Heaven" (DXC.)

焉道: We have "Abandoned Pit" (SotN & DXC,) "Departed Way" (GoS,) and "Path of the Departed" (LoI Sampler.) "Departed Way" would be the most literal translation, but I think that "Path of the Departed" sounds a lot more natural.

✓ 失われた彩画: We have "Lost Painting" (SotN & SSBU,) "Lost Paintings" (GoS,) and "The Lost Portrait" (DXC & HD.) From what I understand, "彩画" would be a colored picture or painting. "絵" (which is used in the Japanese title for Ghost Ship Painting,) essentially means the same thing, albeit in a more general sense. Lastly, "肖像" (which is used in the Japanese title for "Zead's Portrait"/"Portrait of Zead,") would be a portrait. Thus, with that in mind I feel that "Lost Painting" would be the most faithful translation.

悲境の貴公子: We have "The Tragic Prince" (SotN, SSBU & GoS) "Pitiful Scion" (HD,) and "Young Nobleman of Sadness" (LoI Sampler.) Personally, "The Tragic Prince" is my favirote translation of the three. I feel that it's quite fitting since if Dracula is the Dark Lord (or Maō/Demon King) then that would make his son, a prince in a sense. I also feel that "tragic" is just an overall better word to describe Alucard (as opposed to "pitiful.")

魔性の宴: We have "Enchanted Banquet" (SotN) and "Demonic Banquet" (DXC.) Based on what other examples I could find, Demonic Banquet would seem be the more accurate translation. "魔性" was used in the Japanese titles for a few Magic the Gathering cards ("Bedevil" and "Diabolic,") and the English version of Fate Grand Order translates it as both "Demonic" and "Devilish." The closest thing to "enchanted" that I could find was the Yu-Gi-Oh! card, "Mystical Moon" ("魔性の月.") I have occasionally seen "魔" ("Ma") translated as "magic" though, so perhaps that's where they got "enchanted" from in the SotN translation?

死の詩曲: We have "Death Ballad" (SotN,) "Poetic Death" (DXC & HD,) "Death's Ballad" (GoS,) and "Ballad of Death." I'm personally leaning more towards "Death Ballad." "Death's Ballad" seems slightly misleading since it makes it sound like it's specifically referring to the character, Death, but that likely isn't the case considering that his name in Japanese is "死神" ("Shinigami"/"Death God.") Additionally, while this track is used for the battle with Death, it's not exclusive to him as it's also used for Hippogryph, Olrox, Granfaloon, Beelzebub, Shaft and Galamoth. "Poetic Death" on the other hand seems like a somewhat loose translation to me, but I have seen "詩曲" translated as "poème/poem" in a few places before.

終曲トッカータ: We have "Finale Toccata" (SotN,) "Final Toccata" (DXC,) and "The Final Toccata" (LoI Sampler.) "終曲" literally means "finale" so "Finale Toccata" would be the most direct translation. However, I don't think that finale is supposed to be used as an adjective so "Final/The Final Toccata" might be a more appropriate choice when writing it in English.

黒の饗宴: We have "Black Banquet" (SotN,) "The Black Feast" (DXC,) and "Black Feast" (LoI Sampler.) I'm partial towards "Black Feast" since it would be kind of odd to include "the" when the similarly named, "Enchanted/Demonic Banquet" lacks it.

Castlevania (N64)
誓いとその影: We have "Oath and the Shadow" and "Oath and Shadow." I could be mistaken about this one, but wouldn't it be more like "The/A/An Oath and its Shadow?" The title seemingly appears to be referring more to Carrie's bad ending rather than Reinhardt's. The "oath" in question presumably being in reference to how Carrie is pressured by Malus into promising to marry him when they're older and the "shadow" likely being in reference to the true nature of Malus and his request as her consent creates a "binding contract" between them as he forbiddingly puts it.

Misc. Track Questions & Comments

Spoiler:

Haunted Castle
地下室のメロディー: The most common translation I've seen for this one seems to be "Basement Melody." The LoI Sampler used "Melody of Basement," and DoS used "Underground Melodies" (however, despite its title, the track in DoS is actually "Clock Tower Fear.") Considering that the area looks to be more like a catacomb than a basement, I think that "underground" would be the better choice of word here. I also think that "melody" would make more sense than "melodies" since the track is actually rather monotonous, at least when compared to the rest of the game's music. I can understand why DoS would label it as being plural though as Clock Tower Fear is a lot more lively and dynamic. Regardless, I think that either "Underground Melody" or "Underground Melodies" would be the best option.

Kid Dracula
✓ ティファニーでドロン: This one I'm not too sure about, the vinyl translated it as "Disappearing at Tiffany’s," but is that an accurate translation? I'm having trouble figuring out what exactly "でドロン" is supposed to mean, but DeepL gives me "droning" which might either be referring to someone talking ad nauseam, or perhaps a repetitive humming sound.

Super Castlevania IV
室: I was curious if there were any other potentially more appropriate translations for this track besides "Cellar." I suppose it is a cellar on the basis that it's below the main area of the castle, but it seems to be more like a dungeon than a cellar or basement.

Castlevania Legends
沈黙の牢獄: I think that "Silent Prison" would sound better than "Dungeon of Silence," but that could be a bit confusing considering that PoR also has a track titled, "Silent Prison" ("寡黙の牢舎.") From what I understand, there is a subtle difference between "沈黙" and "寡黙" though. The former would simply be silence while the later would be more like "reticence," someone who can talk, but rarely does so.

Castlevania Bloodlines
Iron-Blue Intention / Iron Blue Intention: RoB and SSBU featured the hyphen while Perfect Selection Dracula Battle II, PoR, Judgment and Pachislot III don't. However, I'm not sure which would be the more "correct" way to write it. I think that you're typically supposed to hyphenate two or more words when they're modifying a noun and acting as a single idea, but on the other hand I very rarely ever see something like "crimson red," written as "crimson-red" when it's being used as a compound adjective.

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
木彫パルティータ: The two official translations for this one are "Wood Carving Partita" (SotN) and "Carved Partitia" (DXC.) However, like with the above, since "Wood Carving/Carved" is being used as an adjective for a noun in this title, would that mean that the "correct" way to write it would actually be either "Woodcarving/Woodcarved" or "Wood-carving/Wood-Carved" instead?

Castlevania (N64)
地下水路 — "深緑の罠": Currently we have it listed as "Underground Waterway - "Dark Green Trap." However, looking online I seemed to encounter a lot more instances where "深緑" was translated as "Deep Green" rather than Dark Green. Monster Hunter Rise's soundtrack uses "Deep Green and Shallow Swamps" ("湿地に広がる、深緑の秘境") in the official translation, however I should mention that the game's website describes the Flooded Forest as both deep and dark green: "A dense region of deep, dark green." ("鬱蒼と木々が生い茂る深緑の秘境。") There's the character, Grineed from Beet the Vandel Buster, who is known as the Clevel Honcho of Deep Green (深緑の智将.) Episode 19 of the anime, Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse, was also translated as Deep Green. Final Fantasy XIV translated it as deep green as well with the items "Deep-green Crystal" ("翠緑のクリスタル") and "Deep-green Cluster" ("翠緑のクラスター.") There's also "Deep Green Signal Fire" ("深緑の烽火") from the Death Smiles Respect Arrange Soundtrack. The only examples I could find of Dark Green being used in official translations were "Dark Green Place" ("深緑の地") from the Atelier Iris 2 Soundtrack, and the Battle Spirits card, "The Sea of Trees in Dark Green" ("深緑の樹海.")

青い墓標: Currently we have it listed as "Pale Grave Marker," but it looks like "墓標" is more commonly translated as "gravestone" or "tombstone." I'd like to propose changing it to "Pale Gravestone" since I personally think that it sounds more natural. Apparently, "青い" can be read as blue, green, or pale, but it's typically only read as pale when it's being used to describe a person, not inanimate objects. However, since the grave itself is neither neither green nor blue, but rather grey/white, I can only assume that pale is the intended reading here.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
Fate to Despair: Interestingly, despite it already being written in English, the Advance Collection sound test changed it from "Fate to Despair" to "Fate of Despair." Unless it was a typo this would seem to imply that it was a deliberate change. While it makes sense to leave it as "to" on the various albums since that's what's written on them, this change made me curious, would "Fate of Despair" actually be any more grammatically correct than "Fate to Despair?"

Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
愛しい人: Currently we have it translated as "Beloved One," but I was thinking that it might sound better as just "Beloved." "Beloved One" seems a bit redundant to me since "Beloved" already refers to a person who is dearly loved.

漆黒の扉: Currently we have it translated as "Pitch-Black Door," but can't "漆黒" also be read as just "black" or "dark?" I've encountered a handful examples where that was the case, such as with "Golden Sun: Dark Dawn" ("黄金の太陽 漆黒なる夜明け") or the "Black Knight" ("漆黒の騎士") from Fire Emblem. I feel like "Black Door" or "Dark Door" would sound a bit more natural than "Pitch-Black Door." It also might be worth mentioning that "漆黒" has been translated differently throughout the series. "漆黒の太陽" was translated as "Black Sun" in AoS, "漆黒の進攻" was translated as "Pitch-Black Intrusion" in DoS' and "漆黒の翼" was translated as "Ebony Wings" in OoE.

Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
✓ 猟奇部屋～アンデッドパラサイトのテーマ～: We currently have it listed as "Bizarre Room (Undead Parasite Theme)," but shouldn't it be "Bizarre Room (Undead Parasite's Theme?)"

✓ 闇に魅せられし彫像: Currently we have it translated as "Statue Enchanted by the Darkness," but the sound test instead uses "Statues Born of Darkness." The original text would be "enchanted" (as in animated by dark magic,) but I can understand what they were going for with the sound test title as the statue was given life (born) via dark magic. I suppose we should probably use the sound test titles instead since they're official translations, but I am a bit hesitant to fully recommend that since some of the LoI sound test titles are either inconsistent or translated weirdly. For example, "Prelude to the Black Abyss" is actually called "Prelude to the Dark Abyss" in-game and "Misty Moon Pagoda of the Demonic Realm" is just called "Pagoda of the Misty Moon." Other oddities include them translating, "夢魔のアリア" as "Aria of Nightmare" instead of the more organic sounding, "Nightmare Aria," or how it uses "Old Man" for "リナルド" instead of "Rinaldo."

✓ 蛇頭メディウサ: Currently we have it translated as "Snake Head Medusa," but the sound test instead uses "Snakeheaded Medusa." However, unless I'm mistaken wouldn't "Snakeheaded" sort of imply that Medusa just has a snake-like head rather than her being a giant disembodied snake-like head like she's depicted in LoI? That is unless "Snakeheaded" is actually meant to be referring to the hair-like snakes.

ある一族への憧憬: The 20th anniversary promo CD uses "Admiration Towards the Clan" while the sound test uses "Admiration of a Clan." However, I'm not completely sure about whether the title is referring to Leon's decedents admiration for him or regular people's admiration for the Belmont Clan since "a/the clan" makes more sense for the former and "towards" makes more sense for the latter. Although the latter doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in the context of LoI since people grew fearful of the Belmonts because of their power at some point between Leon and Trevor's time, something that wouldn't be rectified until the end of DC.

血塗られし終焉: We have it listed as "Bloodstianed Demise," but I did notice that "血塗られし" was officially translated as "Blood Soaked" in CoD. I'm not sure if one word would really be more valid than the other in context (Game Over,) since they're pretty much synonymous anyway. I couldn't really find many other official translations of the Japanese text to use for comparison. The only ones I came across were, "Bloodstained Sword" ("血塗られし剣") from Etrian Mystery Dungeon 2 OST, and the weapon, "Bloodied Sword" ("血塗られし聖剣") from Tales of Zesteria.

✓ 宿命の十字架: Instead of "Cross of Fate" the LoI Sampler used "Destined Cruz." This title appears to be a pun as Cruz means "cross" and Cruz is also Soma's surname. Furthermore this track is a remix of "Castle Corridor" (aka "Ruined Castle Corridor") which is also Soma's theme. However, I'm not sure whether this translation should be used or not since although it was an official translation it isn't applicable to the original version of the game since Soma's surname was "Kurusu" in the Japanese release.

月に憑かれし聖架: The only official translation for this one is "Holy Cross Obsessed by the Moon" from the LoI Sampler. However, how can a inanimate object such as a cross be "obsessed" with something? I think that "憑かれ" could also be read as "possessed" which would probably make a lot more sense.

Castlevania: Curse of Darkness
宿命の序章: I believe this one should be "Prelude to Fate" rather than "Prologue of Fate" since it features "の序章" just like "黒き深淵への序章" ("Prelude to the Dark Abyss") from Lament of Innocence. Furthermore, prelude seems more appropriate when considering the series' frequent use of musical terminology.

Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
フォンテーヌ幻夢宮: We currently have it listed as "Phantom Palace Fontaine" which is an accurate translation. The track is an arrangement of the area, "幻夢宮" which was localized to "Inner Quarters" in the English release. Although, this arrangement itself is not featured in the game's sound test, I was wondering if we should update the title in the sound test tracklist to either "Inner Quarters Fontaine" or "Inner Quarters Fountain" so that it's consistent with the name used in the localization.

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow
琥珀の原風景: We currently have it listed as "Original Amber Scenery." "琥珀" would be "amber," and "原風景" can be read literally as "original scenery" or "original landscape" (as in scenery/landscape that hasn't been touched by humans.) It appears that this phrase is the Japanese equivalent of the German word, "urlandschaft" which means "original/primitive/unspoiled landscape." However, it seems that in most cases, "原風景" would actually refer to a nostalgic mental image engraved in someone's mind from childhood, apparently it doesn't even necessarily have to refer to a real location either. The track itself is an arrangement of "Subterranean Hell" which is also the name of the area where it's featured. Said area doesn't appear to feature any amber, and instead seems to have green limestone. It's possible that the "amber" in question is actually meant to be metaphorical and further push the idea of nostalgic imagery, like how we often associate sepia with flashbacks. The scenery/landscape featured in the background of the boss room of this area may possibly tie into this idea somehow.

I couldn't find many examples of official translations for "原風景," but I did come across a few. The Legend of Heroes: Kuro no Kiseki OST translated it literately with the track, "Original Scenery of Relaxation" ("憩いの原風景") In contrast, the Twilight Sky Atelier Escha & Logy Vocal Album drops the "original" part all together with the track, "Landscape of Migratory Fish" ("回遊魚の原風景.") Lastly is the OST for Campfire Cooking in Another World with my Absurd Skill which simply translates it as "Nostalgia" which would appear to tie into my above explanation regarding how it often refers to a nostalgic mental image. Personally, I feel that it would sound more natural if we dropped "original" and went with, "Amber Scenery." I feel that saying "original" is unnecessary here since the term, "scenery" (the natural features of a landscape considered in terms of their appearance, especially when picturesque.) already implies that it's referring to natural, untouched land. Alternatively, we could possibly even go with something more poetic sounding like "Nostalgic Scenery" since that appears to be what the use of the color amber is meant to be conveying here anyway. Although that would of course be a somewhat looser translation of the original text.

[Brad Evans II]

I know this doesn't exactly help with the above, but I LOVE reading translation debates like this. I just find this stuff so interesting even though I have no knowledge of some of the languages.

But still, why does this remind me of how in Breath of Fire III on the PS1 how, "People, Cats, Birds And Sea Lice" was translated as "Life's A Beach" probably due to the character limitations. I just think "Life's A Beach" is a hilarious title since you normally see it on knick-knacks/shirts and such.

[Dag]

There is a lot of very time-consuming grammar stuff to discuss, so instead my general tip would be considering that some words are used to evoke certain images and may not necessarily sound common or natural in Japanese, so going for simple/common EN words that "sounds better" isn't always the best option.

Also keep in mind not adding extra baggage. For example, ドラキュラ城地下 as "Dracula's Castle: Underground". If that's a single track using ":" wouldn't that look out of place? Some EN reader could wonder if the original has some special syntax. No, it's just a boring "(place) basement/underground" sentence.

Some choice words:

Spoiler:

悪魔たちに送るララバイ = this would be "for the".

魔物の森 = Demon Forest makes me think the forest itself is demonic, while Forest of Evil Spirits that is populated by ghosts. I think Forest of Monsters or such is more what they had in mind.

カラクリ館 = カラクリ is generally a mechanism/gimmick or automaton toy, so "trick" in that sense. I guess it was used for the rotating backgrounds rather than some deep meaning.

舞踏曲 = this is dance music (esp. in the classical western sense), while waltz would specifically be ワルツ or 円舞曲

*彩画 = this would be a generic painting rather than a portrait

魔性の宴 = I think something more unusual like "diabolic" or "devilish" works better since 魔性 it's not so common and there is enough demonstuff in other tracks.

ドロン(する) means to disappear, to "poof"

墓標 = a grave marker in a general sense, so it also means grave/tomb, but note that tombstone is typically made of, well, stone, and a 墓標 can be wood

漆黒 = couldn't you just use "black" or "dark"? Well. Consider Japanese has words for "black" and "dark" they could've used too, and that 漆黒(shikkoku) rolls in the tongue in ways "pitch-black" (or "jet-black") doesn't. So a translator may decide to use similar-but-less-precise words when it feels appropriate (Golden Sun: Pitch-Black Dawn sounds rather goofy and not commercial enough as a game title I guess). But does a 'pitch-black door' look the same as a 'black door'? I'd say nope.

魅せられし = I think it's somewhat ambiguous and can be interpret as enchanted in the 'animated' sense, but it's also often used like "haunted".

宿命の十字架 = IIRC クルス/Cruz was given as the reading of 十字架 originally (in the official site where that arrange was originally posted?), though it isn't written in the booklet.

[BlazingAbyss]

Originally Posted by Brad Evans II

I know this doesn't exactly help with the above, but I LOVE reading translation debates like this. I just find this stuff so interesting even though I have no knowledge of some of the languages.

But still, why does this remind me of how in Breath of Fire III on the PS1 how, "People, Cats, Birds And Sea Lice" was translated as "Life's A Beach" probably due to the character limitations. I just think "Life's A Beach" is a hilarious title since you normally see it on knick-knacks/shirts and such.

No worries, I'm glad to hear that you're interested in the discussion. Let me know if you have any particular thoughts on the matter, if you do, then I'd love to hear them.

In regards to Breath of Fire III, although it may not be a faithful translation, "Life's a Beach" is certainly a far more charming title than "People, Cats, Birds and Sea Lice." After all, the English script for SotN wouldn't be anywhere near as memorable had they translated it all literally. In the original Japanese text, the iconic line, "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets." was just, "Foolish drivel." which is pretty mundane and forgettable by comparison if you ask me.

[BlazingAbyss]

Thanks a lot for sharing some of your thoughts on the matter, it's much appreciated. I'd be interested to hear more regarding the grammar stuff that you mentioned, but it's true that it's quite a lot to go over, so I'd understand if it's not really something that you'd want to go too deep into.

Originally Posted by Dag

Some choice words:

Spoiler:

悪魔たちに送るララバイ = this would be "for the".

魔物の森 = Demon Forest makes me think the forest itself is demonic, while Forest of Evil Spirits that is populated by ghosts. I think Forest of Monsters or such is more what they had in mind.

カラクリ館 = カラクリ is generally a mechanism/gimmick or automaton toy, so "trick" in that sense. I guess it was used for the rotating backgrounds rather than some deep meaning.

舞踏曲 = this is dance music (esp. in the classical western sense), while waltz would specifically be ワルツ or 円舞曲

*彩画 = this would be a generic painting rather than a portrait

魔性の宴 = I think something more unusual like "diabolic" or "devilish" works better since 魔性 it's not so common and there is enough demonstuff in other tracks.

ドロン(する) means to disappear, to "poof"

墓標 = a grave marker in a general sense, so it also means grave/tomb, but note that tombstone is typically made of, well, stone, and a 墓標 can be wood

漆黒 = couldn't you just use "black" or "dark"? Well. Consider Japanese has words for "black" and "dark" they could've used too, and that 漆黒(shikkoku) rolls in the tongue in ways "pitch-black" (or "jet-black") doesn't. So a translator may decide to use similar-but-less-precise words when it feels appropriate (Golden Sun: Pitch-Black Dawn sounds rather goofy and not commercial enough as a game title I guess). But does a 'pitch-black door' look the same as a 'black door'? I'd say nope.

魅せられし = I think it's somewhat ambiguous and can be interpret as enchanted in the 'animated' sense, but it's also often used like "haunted".

宿命の十字架 = IIRC クルス/Cruz was given as the reading of 十字架 originally (in the official site where that arrange was originally posted?), though it isn't written in the booklet.

Spoiler:

悪魔たちに送るララバイ = this would be "for the".

I see, I thought that might be the case, but I wasn't certain, thanks for the clarification. With that said, that just leaves the question of whether we should use "Demons" or "Devils." I'm a bit torn on this one since I feel that "Demons" makes more sense in context, but that "Devils" sounds better. For what it's worth, there are a handful of regular enemies throughout the series that have "Devil" in their names. These include, "Devil" ("デビル,") "Tiny/Mini Devil" ("ミニデビル,") "Devil Tower" ("デビルタワー,") "Devil Armor" ("デビルアーマー,") "Guillotiner" is called the "Guillotine Devil" ("ギロチンデビル") in Japanese. There's also the "Innocent Devils" ("イノセントデビル") from Curse of Darkness, and now that I look at it, it appears that the Japanese name for "Devil Forgemaster" ("悪魔精錬士") even uses "悪魔" like the Haunted Castle track titles do. I suppose there's also the matter on whether it would be better to use "A Lullaby" or just "Lullaby," but I'm thinking that it might not be necessary to include the "A" since tracks with similar titles like, "Requiem for the Nameless Victims" or "Requiem for the Dark Souls" didn't.

Since it's a similar case, do you think that it would be better to translate "神々たちのレクイエム" as "Requiem of the Gods" (like it was in DXC and the 20th Anniversary Deluxe Music Collection) rather than "Requiem for the Gods" (like it was in SotN,) since it just uses "の" instead of "に送る?"


魔物の森 = Demon Forest makes me think the forest itself is demonic, while Forest of Evil Spirits that is populated by ghosts. I think Forest of Monsters or such is more what they had in mind.

That's a fair point, "Demon Forest" does kind of make it sound like the forest itself is demonic rather than it just being a forest that demonic creatures are now inhabiting. I'm not too fond of "Forest of Evil Spirits" since like you said, it makes it sound as though it's inhabited by ghosts, but in actuality it's primarily inhabited by animals and undead. The only enemy in that particular stage that might possibly qualify as a ghost is the "Invisible Wraith," or as it's known in Japan, the "Leaf Man" ("葉男.") I think you might be right about "Forest of Monsters" being the best option here. Unless you have any objections, I can update the applicable albums to use that title instead of what's currently being used (that being "Demon Forest" and "Forest of Evil Spirits.")


カラクリ館 = カラクリ is generally a mechanism/gimmick or automaton toy, so "trick" in that sense. I guess it was used for the rotating backgrounds rather than some deep meaning.

It seems to refer to any sort of device that can perform an action through a concealed mechanism, with karakuri puppets probably the most popular example of this. Although it's commonly translated as "clockwork," I don't feel that term is really applicable in this context. "Trick" seems more accurate to me as this stage features several gimmicks which are meant to disorient the player. There's platforms that rotate whenever you jump off of them, a lever that rotates the entire stage, a room with a rotating background and temporary platforms, ascending blocks, and spiked chandeliers that retract after falling. If it matters at all, the location, "カラクリ屋敷" from Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald was officially localized to "Trick House" in the English Release. Likewise, the name of the house's owner, "カラクリ大王," was localized to "Trick Master."


舞踏曲 = this is dance music (esp. in the classical western sense), while waltz would specifically be ワルツ or 円舞曲

Based on what it could find, it would appear that you're correct. Although, while looking around online I did stumble upon a Japanese book titled "花の舞踏曲" which also featured the English title, "Waltz of Flowers" on its cover.


彩画 = this would be a generic painting rather than a portrait

In that case would it be alright for me to go ahead and update the unofficial English tracklists so that they all use "Lost Painting?"


魔性の宴 = I think something more unusual like "diabolic" or "devilish" works better since 魔性 it's not so common and there is enough demonstuff in other tracks.

Perhaps, although I do feel that "Demonic" being used in one of the official translations for the title does lend it some more validity than other alternatives.


ドロン(する) means to disappear, to "poof"

I see, in that case that would mean that the title used on the vinyl release was accurate. I wasn't certain since although the translations on the vinyl seemed solid overall, I did notice that they added the word "Great" to two tracks that didn't appear to feature that word in the original text. Those being, "Go Go at the Great Castle" ("お城でゴーゴー") and "Cha-Cha-Cha in the Great Waters" ("お水でチャチャチャ.") I'm also pretty sure that it should be "Go-Go" (as in the genre of music and/or style of dance) rather than "Go Go" since there are other Kid Dracula tracks which make references to music / dances (Cha-Cha-Cha, Samba, Tango,) but I digress. Regardless, I'll update the translations for this one so that they all use, "Disappearing at Tiffany’s."


墓標 = a grave marker in a general sense, so it also means grave/tomb, but note that tombstone is typically made of, well, stone, and a 墓標 can be wood

The grave in question is definitely made out of stone rather than wood. Unless I'm mistaken, a grave marker or tombstone would be an identifying marker placed at the head of a grave whereas a gravestone or a headstone would be an identifying stone slab that covers a grave. Assuming that's accurate, I feel that the later would better describe the type of grave seen in Carrie's good ending. Although it's completely illegible, there's clearly supposed to be text on the slab rather than the cross that's attached to it.


魅せられし = I think it's somewhat ambiguous and can be interpret as enchanted in the 'animated' sense, but it's also often used like "haunted".

Do you think that the translation featured in the in-game sound player should take precedence here even if it's not quite as literal? Although, if the implication here is that the statues are haunted then I suppose it's just a more poetic way of saying that. They're "born" in that they're now "alive," because they're being haunted by an entity, and "darkness" would just be a catch-all term for whatever sort of evil entity is possessing them.


宿命の十字架 = IIRC クルス/Cruz was given as the reading of 十字架 originally (in the official site where that arrange was originally posted?), though it isn't written in the booklet.

It looks like you're correct, I did some digging, and I found this old listing on Mercari Japan. If you click on the third image you can get a good enough look at the tracklist to see that it does indeed specify that it's intended to be read as "クルス." I have no idea why this was the only release where that detail was specified though. Regardless, it would appear that "Destined Cruz" is an accurate translation after all, I'll go ahead and update that one too.

[Dag]

By 'grammar stuff' I mostly mean tiny details mostly a matter of opinion. Like Crystal Teardrop vs Crystal Drop or Painting vs Paintings, I can tell you what I like, but couldn't justify it much.

As for using this or that, generally if a translation isn't 'wrong' or deviates too much from the original meaning, overall I'd just stick to whatever people know or like more (IOW translations in SOTN may be preferable to DXC). As for sound test vs fan translations that would depend how 'off' a translation is. I think it's also good using sound test names when accurate enough so only tracks that deviate too much are different.

Though honestly it doesn't bother me than different sound tests / official albums translate things differently, there is beauty in that. My personal view is that fan translations can be a bit clunky but closer to original meanings, while it's fine official titles are looser for effect (see the BoF3 example).

Spoiler:

- 聖霊 = generally refers to *the* Holy Ghost, but since it's an homonym of 精霊 (*a* spirit) it's was probably used to look cooler than meant to be a Christian reference, and just 'spirits' or 'a holy spirit' wouldn't be off.

- 神々たちのレクイエム = probably 'of the' since the original is vague enough.

- Notice it's 花の舞踏曲(ワルツ) as in, waltz is the given reading (IOW forcing a meaning to another word), not that it normally means waltz.

- 墓標 = you have to consider how much of the vagueness you want to keep. In Japanese we have 墓標 (a grave marker, of wood/stone/etc) and 墓石 (a gravestone/tombstone/headstone, basically the same but made of stone).

Now, why did they use 墓標 and not 墓石? I don't know. Maybe the person writting titles wanted to evoke something less concrete than 'stone', or felt 'gravestone' was a more boring title, or didn't remember the scene, or just didn't care and could've gone either way. How important is to keep that slight vagueness of 'grave marker' vs being closer to the game with 'gravestone'? No idea. Is 墓標 / 'grave marker' used commonly in Japanese conversation, where an EN speaker would naturally use 'gravestone' instead? Can't say either. But to me all those details are worth considering, rather than only going with "sound more natural" or not.

[BlazingAbyss]

Originally Posted by Dag

Though honestly it doesn't bother me than different sound tests / official albums translate things differently, there is beauty in that. My personal view is that fan translations can be a bit clunky but closer to original meanings, while it's fine official titles are looser for effect (see the BoF3 example).

I don't disagree with that sentiment. The only reason why I'm so concerned about consistency between the Castlevania albums in particular, is because Konami is being lazy and utilizing fan translations rather than using official pre-existing ones, or making new translations. It's kind of like what you were saying before regarding "Dracula's Castle: Underground," it may give people the wrong idea that these discrepancies between the translations are a reflection of there being differences in the original text, when that's not actually the case.

Originally Posted by Dag

As for using this or that, generally if a translation isn't 'wrong' or deviates too much from the original meaning, overall I'd just stick to whatever people know or like more (IOW translations in SOTN may be preferable to DXC). As for sound test vs fan translations that would depend how 'off' a translation is. I think it's also good using sound test names when accurate enough so only tracks that deviate too much are different.

As far as I can tell "Lost Painting" appears to be the most popular translation for "失われた彩画." It was also the translation used officially in both SotN and SSBU, so I feel that there's enough justification for that to be the translation that we go with.

I just realized that I made an error, apparently DXC translated "神々たちのレクイエム" as "Requiem to the Gods," and not "Requiem of the Gods" like it was translated as on the "20th Anniversary Deluxe Music Collection." Can "の" also be read as "to the" or is it still more likely that it's intended to be "of the?"

As for sound tests vs fan translations, what are your thoughts regarding Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness' track titles? Below I've listed all the sound test titles that differed from the fan translations, along with my own thoughts on the matter. However, I didn't want to go making any changes for these ones without at least getting a second opinion on them first.

Lament of Innocence

Spoiler:

1.05 "黒き深淵への序章"
Fan Translation: "Prelude to the Dark Abyss"
Sound Test: "Prelude to the Black Abyss"

I'd leave it as "Prelude to the Dark Abyss" since that's what the area is called in-game.

1.08 "リナルドの小屋"
Fan Translation: "Rinaldo's Cabin"
Sound Test: "Old Man's Cottage"

The original text clearly specifies "Rinaldo," thus I would recommend merging the two titles into, "Rinaldo's Cottage." Unless I'm mistake, "小屋" can be read as either "cabin" or "cottage," but the term "cottage" is specifically used in the English script, whereas the term "cabin" is not. ("As you wish. Now, please follow me to my cottage. I want to talk to you." -Rinaldo)

1.16 "闇に魅せられし彫像"
Fan Translation: "Statue Enchanted by the Darkness"
Sound Test: "Statue Born of Darkness"

We already discussed this one a little bit, the sound test title seems to be a bit looser, but I suppose that it's still close enough to consider using it over the unofficial translation?

1.22 "夢魔のアリア"
Fan Translation: "Nightmare Aria"
Sound Test: "Aria of Nightmare"

As I already mentioned before, I think that "Nightmare Aria" sounds a lot more organic than "Aria of Nightmare." I don't think that the latter would even be considered grammatically correct English.

1.23 "蛇頭メディウサ"
Fan Translation: "Snake Head Medusa"
Sound Test: "Snakeheaded Medusa"

I could go either way on this one since they're so similar, but with that said I suppose it would make more sense to default to the sound test title.

2.04 "魔天朧月宮"
Fan Translation: "Pagoda of the Misty Moon"
Sound Test: "Misty Moon Pagoda of the Demonic Realm"

I'd leave it as "Pagoda of the Misty Moon" since that's what the area is called in-game.

2.11 "ある一族への憧憬"
Fan Translation: "Admiration Towards the Clan"
Sound Test: "Admiration of a Clan"

As mentioned before, I'm not exactly sure where the admiration is coming from since that would effect how I read the title, but since it appears to be ambiguous I'm probably more inclined to go with the translation featured in the actual game over the one featured on the 20th anniversary promo CD.

Curse of Darkness

Spoiler:

1.02 "碧の小夜曲"
Fan Translation: "Blue Serenade"
Sound Test: "Green Serenade"

I'm pretty sure that "碧" can be read as either "Blue" or "Green." I think that it would make more sense to use "Green," simply because they specifically picked that color for the official translation.

1.07 "イノセントデビルとの邂逅"
Fan Translation: "Encounter with the Innocent Devil"
Sound Test: "Encounter with Innocent Devil"

This track plays in the rooms where you unlock the different starting types of Innocent Devils such as the Fairy-Type ID, "Infant Fairy" or the Bird-Type ID, "Crow." I actually think that "Encounter with an Innocent Devil" would make more sense in context. Both of the above titles make it sound like it's referring to a singular entity (or at the very least, a specific Innocent Devil,) when in actuality there are multiple different Innocent Devils.

1.14 "ガリバルディの中庭"
Fan Translation: "Garibaldi Courtyard"
Sound Test: "Garden in Garibaldi"

I'd leave it as "Garibaldi Courtyard" since that's what the area is called in-game.

1.15 "伝説のベルモンド"
Fan Translation: "Legendary Belmont"
Sound Test: "Belmont, The Legend"

Trevor/Ralph's boss theme. The fan translation is more direct, but the sound test title is close enough to the original text where I think that it would still be okay to use it instead.

1.22 "朱色のフィーネ"
Fan Translation: "Scarlet Fine"
Sound Test: "Vermilion End"

The Game Over theme. "フィーネ" would be "Fine" which in turn would be Italian for "End." The sound test title does lose out on the specific usage of a musical term, but it does swap it out for the literal English meaning of said term, so I think that it balances out. I imagine that it may have done to avoid confusion with the English word, "fine" which is understandable.

1.28 "コルドバの町"
Fan Translation: "Cordova Town"
Sound Test: "A Town Called Cordova"

I'd leave it as "Cordova Town" since that's what the area is called in-game.

1.29 "アンニュイな椅子部屋のワルツ"
Fan Translation: "Waltz of the Lazy Chair Room"
Sound Test: "Waltz of the Weary Chair Room"

The Chair Room theme. I believe that it could be read as either, thus I'd go with the sound test title by default since it was the one that was used officially.

2.01 "狂気の貴公子"
Fan Translation: "Young Nobleman of Madness"
Sound Test: "Insane Aristocracy"

Isaac's boss theme. The fan translation appears to be a bit more direct, but the sound test title is still essentially saying the exact same thing, so personally, I'd probably still go with the sound test title.

2.05 "シルクハットの来訪者"
Fan Translation: "The Visitor in the Silk Hat"
Sound Test: "Visitor in a Silk Hat"

Saint Germain's boss theme. They're practically the same, thus I'd just go with the sound test title since that one was used officially.

2.22 "死の黒淵へのメタモルフォーゼ"
Fan Translation: "Metamorphosis to the Black Abyss of Death"
Sound Test: "Metamorphosis into Abyss"

I'm not actually too sure about this one. I'd probably go with the sound test title myself (although I'd correct it to "the Abyss,") but perhaps it would be better to continue using the fan translation instead since it appears that the sound test title omitted more details than usual with this particular translation.

[zierts]

For reference, we already had some pretty extensive translation discussions going on here and here. I still haven't gotten around to looking up 十字架を胸に切る (it's been a busy few months) but Aifread didn't reply either to specify where he'd learned that phrase. I'll get around to it eventually and will also look up some of the terminology used in Kid Dracula for the Famicom which you're unlikely to translate accurately using a web dictionary (same goes for all translations from Japanese if you didn't study the language, basically, but these in particular require some special lexicons to get you anywhere).

I'll maintain what I've said before: VGMdb has come to favour official translations over the last few years and tends to list fan translations as more of an extra on some occasions (Final Fantasy track lists like this one, for example).

What I'd really discourage is mixing and matching, that is: compiling a track list for an album using some official translations (from sound tests and album releases etc.) and some fan translations, then simply calling it "English". Instead, keep them as two separate track lists and give the translation's source in brackets in the track list title ("literal" is VGMdb's go-to term for fan translations). See this as an example.


As for the fan translations, I'll comment on just one track title for now: Great find on 宿命の十字架（クルス）Blazing Abyss! I added that to our Castlevania Special Music CD entry as we didn't have it and as it indeed seems to be the only instance where the reading of 十字架 is specified as クルス. Both the Castlevania Original Soundtrack and the Akumajo Dracula Best Music Collections BOX don't give this intended reading. It's obviously a pun on protagonist Soma Cruz's surname, written as 来須 in kanji but never spelled out as Cruz in the Japanese versions, I think. Aria of Sorrow's and Dawn of Sorrow's manuals both just give the furigana くるす (Kurusu) which is identical to the supposed second reading of 十字架 as クルス which likely hearkens back to the 16th century when Christian missionaries came from Portugal to Japan. I'd also have to look up when and by whom that second reading was used.

In any case, if you want to keep the pun conveying both "cross/cruzifix of destiny" and "the fated Soma Cruz", keep the track title all in Portuguese. Anyone who speaks Portuguese here? Would that be "Cruz do Destino"?

[Dag]

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

I don't disagree with that sentiment. The only reason why I'm so concerned about consistency between the Castlevania albums in particular, is because Konami is being lazy and utilizing fan translations rather than using official pre-existing ones

Well guess they want to be in the hall of shame too.

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

I just realized that I made an error, apparently DXC translated "神々たちのレクイエム" as "Requiem to the Gods," and not "Requiem of the Gods" like it was translated as on the "20th Anniversary Deluxe Music Collection." Can "の" also be read as "to the" or is it still more likely that it's intended to be "of the?"

の is a basically a noun joiner so its meaning can vary a bit, however I think "to the" is a *big* stretch (would be more like 神々たちへのレクイエム).

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

As for sound tests vs fan translations, what are your thoughts regarding Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness' track titles?

Spoiler:

For places with area names I'd go with those.

LoI
1.08 Rinaldo's Cottage

1.16 Probably sound test is the more likely meaning

1.22 Nightmare Aria sounds better but I think translators were trying to evoke "Aria of Sorrow"

1.23 Snakeheaded Medusa (or Snakehead)

2.11 More literally "Admiration for/to(wards) a Certain Clan" (not 'our' clan), so not sure if either fully captures that, but guess you could go with sound test

CoD
1.02 This would depend if there is some blue/green background associated with that music or something, otherwise would use sound test.

1.07 Encounter with 'an' Innocent Devil

1.15 伝説のX is very commonly "legendary X" and very rarely "X the legend" (sounds odd to me). I'd rather go with "The Legendary Belmont" (not just any Belmont here).

1.22 This is the kind of translation I'd expect official sources to get a bit creative to preserve original 'tone' (rather than just 'meaning'), instead we just get a boring "end". For example they could have changed "fine" (confusing due to the English word) with "finis" (italian > latin so close enough and clear to most EN speakers). But I'm not sure if fan translations need to get that creative.

1.29 I don't think "lazy" captures ennui and sound test is better here.

2.01 Insane Aristocrat (not aristocracy)

2.22 Official translation for goofier titles tend to tone it down, but I think it's best to keep it full for fan translations. After all it does sound kinda goofy in Japanese too. I'd change "to" to "into" as it's more natural I think.

[BlazingAbyss]

Originally Posted by zierts

VGMdb has come to favour official translations over the last few years and tends to list fan translations as more of an extra on some occasions (Final Fantasy track lists like this one, for example).

What I'd really discourage is mixing and matching, that is: compiling a track list for an album using some official translations (from sound tests and album releases etc.) and some fan translations, then simply calling it "English". Instead, keep them as two separate track lists and give the translation's source in brackets in the track list title ("literal" is VGMdb's go-to term for fan translations).

Generally I tend to favor official translations so long as they don't deviate too greatly from the original text, although I understand that sometimes large changes are necessary in order for them to make sense in English.

I had considered the idea of simply making separate English track lists. However, while that would work fine for most of them, there's a couple issues that arise with LoI and CoD. Firstly, there are several tracks on the OSTs which were not featured in the sound tests, nor ever officially translated elsewhere. For example, cutscene music is not present in the sound tests, a few of CoD's cutscene tracks received official translations on the CoD sampler, but that's about it. With that in mind, wouldn't it be a bit misleading to have a separate sound test tab when a large portion of the titles would still be unofficial?

Then you have instances where the games themselves provide conflicting translations, like with the area title cards / maps not matching up with what's listed in the sound test. For example, the "Pagoda of the Misty Moon" is called "Misty Moon Pagoda of the Demonic Realm" in the sound test, despite the former being the name used within the actual stage area. Although, it really should have been called the "Palace of the Misty Moon," since it's clearly not a pagoda. Even the English subtitle for the area in the Japanese release refers to it as a "palace," but I digress.

And what about tracks that have multiple official translations like "ある一族への憧憬?" The sound test translated it as "Admiration of a Clan," but the 20th Anniversary Music Collection translated it as "Admiration Towards the Clan," and according to what Dag said, the latter translation would be the more accurate of the two. Should the sound test still take precedence? Admittedly, I do actually prefer the sound test title ("Admiration of a Clan,") more, mainly because the phrase, "the clan" tends to make me think of something else, even though they're not spelled the same way.

Originally Posted by zierts

In any case, if you want to keep the pun conveying both "cross/cruzifix of destiny" and "the fated Soma Cruz", keep the track title all in Portuguese. Anyone who speaks Portuguese here? Would that be "Cruz do Destino"?

I asked a native speaker about this and they told me that "Cruz do destino" would be correct. However, considering your statement about how official translations are apparently favored, wouldn't it make more sense to stick to "Destined Cruz" seeing as how it was officially translated as such on the LoI sampler? That is unless you were just suggesting it for literal English track lists.

Originally Posted by Dag

Well guess they want to be in the hall of shame too.

Wow, that is pretty shameful, I wasn't aware that this issue extended to other official releases as well, that's quite unfortunate. Seriously though, how does someone look at a title like, "Are the Customers Pigeons?" and think, "yeah, that looks correct," without even bothering to double-check it? Now you've got me wondering if the titles used in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Cowabunga Collection sound test (as well as the upcoming physical releases) were original, or just unofficial ones taken from a gamerip or something.

Originally Posted by Dag

1.02 This would depend if there is some blue/green background associated with that music or something, otherwise would use sound test.

I wouldn't say that the track really has any strong association with either color, it's the Name Entry theme for both the save data file name, and when naming Innocent Devils.

Originally Posted by Dag

1.15 伝説のX is very commonly "legendary X" and very rarely "X the legend" (sounds odd to me). I'd rather go with "The Legendary Belmont" (not just any Belmont here).

I'm not sure if it'll affect your opinion at all, but in Curse of Darkness, Trevor is primarily referred to as "Belmont," (ex. "If that is so... We must call Belmont." -Hector) I think that there are only two instances in the entire game where his full name is spoken (one of which being in the prologue narration, which also refers to him as just "Belmont" immediately afterwards.) Thus, in context I believe that "Belmont, the Legend" is still meant in reference to his name rather than it being a fancier way of saying, "The Legend of the Belmonts."

[zierts]

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

I had considered the idea of simply making separate English track lists. However, while that would work fine for most of them, there's a couple issues that arise with LoI and CoD. Firstly, there are several tracks on the OSTs which were not featured in the sound tests, nor ever officially translated elsewhere. For example, cutscene music is not present in the sound tests, a few of CoD's cutscene tracks received official translations on the CoD sampler, but that's about it. With that in mind, wouldn't it be a bit misleading to have a separate sound test tab when a large portion of the titles would still be unofficial?

I'm not too familiar with all of the Castlevania track lists but I suspected missing official translations to be your main problem.

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

Then you have instances where the games themselves provide conflicting translations, like with the area title cards / maps not matching up with what's listed in the sound test. For example, the "Pagoda of the Misty Moon" is called "Misty Moon Pagoda of the Demonic Realm" in the sound test, despite the former being the name used within the actual stage area. Although, it really should have been called the "Palace of the Misty Moon," since it's clearly not a pagoda. Even the English subtitle for the area in the Japanese release refers to it as a "palace," but I digress.

And what about tracks that have multiple official translations like "ある一族への憧憬?" The sound test translated it as "Admiration of a Clan," but the 20th Anniversary Music Collection translated it as "Admiration Towards the Clan," and according to what Dag said, the latter translation would be the more accurate of the two. Should the sound test still take precedence? Admittedly, I do actually prefer the sound test title ("Admiration of a Clan,") more, mainly because the phrase, "the clan" tends to make me think of something else, even though they're not spelled the same way.

In my mind, Konami (or whoever managed their localisations) is infamous for handing off the same Castlevania materials to different translators, even on one and the same project! That's how you end up with discrepancies such as that first one. Arguably, these are fringe cases and more the exception rather than the rule, but worthy of discussion.

As far as conflicting official sources go, we don't really have a good solution as we don't allow track titles to be selected on a track basis but on a track list basis. It seems to me that VGMdb tries to use the "most official" titles that people are also most likely to be familiar with. Judging by Lament of Innocence's sales, some 350,000 people potentially had a chance to see the in-game titles and the sound test. Of these, most people probably saw the in-game titles, then a lower number of people saw the sound test. A much, much smaller number of people (probably somewhere in the low thousands) got exposed to title translations via promotional materials and merchandise such as soundtracks.

So if we have nothing better to go with in fringe cases where you have to pick and choose to create a track list, I'd say the following order could determine which of the official titles is the best choice:
1. in-game
2. sound test
3. other materials
The biggest problem left then would be what to call these track lists in brackets, especially when fan translations are used for some tracks where there is no official source. I could imagine "(official/literal)" being one option, even though it's not a very good one. And I'm not too keen on calling fan translations "literal" anyway, even though it's VGMdb's go-to term. In any case, I'd opt for using an official title in any case and only to use fan translations if there is no official title in existence.



Regarding 魔天朧月宮 (matenrôgekkyû), the 魔天朧 is a pun on 摩天楼 (skyscraper). That, and rô in particular, is where the "pagoda" part comes from. The 魔天 (maten) part hints at it being the final area in the game, leading up to the castle keep with a demonic fiend hiding high up in the clouds. They used the 朧 rô to convey 朧月 oborozuki, a moon that is half-visible behind the clouds. I believe the 魔天朧 in the area's name to be a callback to the famous Super Castlevania IV opening where Dracula resurrects and demonic mist engulfs Wallachia (the fact that "Lament of Innocence ~Leon's Theme~" is also played in that area and that it quotes Super Castlevania IV's opening theme lends credence to that theory). So the area name means something like a "palace reaching up into the heavens with a moon clouded by demonic haze". As you see, it's hard to wrap that all up in an English title. "The palace of moonlight" doesn't even try. "Misty Moon Pagoda of the Demonic Realm" is super-clunky and only halfway there. "Pagoda of the Misty Moon" drops the demonic part. This is only me providing insights on how the Japanese title came about and to show why it's not enough to use an online dictionary to find some English equivalents for punny jukugo titles such as this. That's the...err..."beauty" of the Japanese language and the reason why it drives translators nuts. And why real translators can still do a better job than DeepL.

As for ある一族への憧憬, "admiration for" > "admiration of" > "admiration towards" is the order of "most natural sounding" English to me, though either is fine, really. ベルモンド一族 is used quite often in the Japanese versions, as far as I remember. I usually take ある as a very weak "a certain", as in "a wise man once said..." Here, it's the non-Belmont's "admiration for that clan". I think this was meant to refer to Leon Belmont's descendants starting from Trevor Belmont as the song quotes "Vampire Killer" and "Bloody Tears", two musical themes typically associated with Simon Belmont. I'm not too certain on the Castlevania lore anymore but if I remember correctly, Castlevania 3's English translation greatly exaggerated the fallout between the Wallachian populace and the Belmonts. I'm not sure but I don't think the Belmonts were exiled in the Japanese versions. I think it was more of a voluntary thing, them being feared and shunned for their power but then disappearing from the public eye on their own volition.

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

I asked a native speaker about this and they told me that "Cruz do destino" would be correct. However, considering your statement about how official translations are apparently favored, wouldn't it make more sense to stick to "Destined Cruz" seeing as how it was officially translated as such on the LoI sampler? That is unless you were just suggesting it for literal English track lists.

Sorry, I should have clarified. Yeah, whenever I comment on translations, I don't mean it to supersede official titles but strictly to give some insight on a nice-to-know basis or to use it in a fan translation track list. This was a great find, so I couldn't pass on the opportunity to comment. Thanks for having this checked by a native speaker! If "Destined Cruz" is an official title, I'd still use this one even though it doesn't get both meanings across quite as well as the Portuguese. I'll also say that I have huge problems with VGMdb's insistence on using English title case for all non-English languages and even romanised Japanese, but it's not really up to me.

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

I'm not sure if it'll affect your opinion at all, but in Curse of Darkness, Trevor is primarily referred to as "Belmont," (ex. "If that is so... We must call Belmont." -Hector) I think that there are only two instances in the entire game where his full name is spoken (one of which being in the prologue narration, which also refers to him as just "Belmont" immediately afterwards.) Thus, in context I believe that "Belmont, the Legend" is still meant in reference to his name rather than it being a fancier way of saying, "The Legend of the Belmonts."

Both "Belmont, the Legend" and "The Legendary Belmont" are perfectly alright as translations. I could see more people having problems with the former, though. It clearly refers to Trevor Belmont.

[BlazingAbyss]

Originally Posted by zierts

Thanks for having this checked by a native speaker!

Coincidentally, I just so happen to know a few native speakers so it was really no trouble at all. I wasn't aware that Portuguese missionaries had traveled to Japan back in the 16th century, that might explain why I've encountered a couple Japanese games that mentioned having Portuguese influences.

By the way, did you have any opinions regarding the translations for tracks with no official ones? I've gone back and added a few new ones to the list, and in order to keep better track, I've also added check marks next to the ones that we seem to have consensuses on.

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

1.16 "闇に魅せられし彫像"
Fan Translation: "Statue Enchanted by the Darkness"
Sound Test: "Statue Born of Darkness"

I noticed that I made a small error here, the sound test title is actually, "Statues Born of Darkness." I guess it was a good thing that I decided to check it again.

[zierts]

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

Coincidentally, I just so happen to know a few native speakers so it was really no trouble at all. I wasn't aware that Portuguese missionaries had traveled to Japan back in the 16th century, that might explain why I've encountered a couple Japanese games that mentioned having Portuguese influences.

It's a really interesting period in Japanese history. There's an entertaining movie by Martin Scorsese called Silence, starring Andrew Garfield and Adam Driver. It can get a preachy, though. And what the movie doesn't tell you is that the Portuguese apparently kidnapped the Japanese and sold them as slaves. If I had to take a guess, it probably wasn't the missionaries that did that, but I'd have to brush up on my history to be sure.

Originally Posted by BlazingAbyss

By the way, did you have any opinions regarding the translations for tracks with no official ones? I've gone back and added a few new ones to the list, and in order to keep better track, I've also added check marks next to the ones that we seem to have consensuses on.

Could you mark the ones you'd like me to go over? I'll check them as soon as I'm free.

[BlazingAbyss]

Originally Posted by zierts

Could you mark the ones you'd like me to go over? I'll check them as soon as I'm free.

I went back and put a "✓" next to the ones that we seem to already have a general consensus on, so your thoughts on any of the other ones would be much appreciated.

Also, I should mention that a few of my preferred translations have shifted after discussing them here. It might make things a bit confusing if I were to go back and alter what I had originally said, so instead I'll just list the ones that I've had a change of opinion on below.

悪魔たちのララバイ: "Lullaby of the Devils."

悪魔たちに送るララバイ: "Lullaby for the Devils"

魔物の森: "Forest of Monsters"

[BlazingAbyss]

I came across something interesting the other day, it turns out that there's a French film based on the novel "The Big Grab" by Zekial Marko, titled "Mélodie en sous-sol" which would literally translate to "Basement/Cellar/Underground Melody." The title was changed to "Any Number Can Win" for the US release, but the Japanese release instead used a direct translation, and was written as "地下室のメロディー," just like the track from Haunted Castle. Considering how the Belmonts were apparently named after French actor, Jean-Paul Belmondo, I wonder if this track could have possibly been named after this French film. It wouldn't be the first time that I saw a Japanese game make reference to a seemingly random French film.

[zierts]

No time yet to check the other ones but I'll comment on your last one. You're right in that 地下室のメロディー is really specific to the point it's unlikely to be a coincidence. But I think it's taken from another source. I just found a 1980 song (and album) by the Japanese rock band Kai Band titled 地下室のメロディー (the album cover translates it to "Basement Melody"). Listen to this. Can't really deny the similarities, especially at the beginning. I can totally see some of the Konami composers being music buffs, so they would likely know the song. If you want to reference the Japanese song, you can make it "Basement Melody". "Mélodie en sous-sol" may also be fine since the French film is likely to be the original source of inspiration for Kai Band's title...

As for the film being the source for the Haunted Castle track title, I don't think so. Hitoshi Akamatsu who created the Castlevania series and the Belmont name reportedly was into movies a lot but he had nothing to do with Haunted Castle. He designed the NES trilogy only.

[BlazingAbyss]

Originally Posted by zierts

No time yet to check the other ones but I'll comment on your last one. You're right in that 地下室のメロディー is really specific to the point it's unlikely to be a coincidence. But I think it's taken from another source. I just found a 1980 song (and album) by the Japanese rock band Kai Band titled 地下室のメロディー (the album cover translates it to "Basement Melody"). Listen to this. Can't really deny the similarities, especially at the beginning. I can totally see some of the Konami composers being music buffs, so they would likely know the song. If you want to reference the Japanese song, you can make it "Basement Melody". "Mélodie en sous-sol" may also be fine since the French film is likely to be the original source of inspiration for Kai Band's title...

Despite the title of the Haunted Castle video that you linked being "Basement Melodies," that track is actually "時計台の恐怖" (typically translated as "Clock Tower Fear,") not "地下室のメロディー." I believe that this misconception may have been due to how Dawn of Sorrow's soundtrack/sound test erroneously labeled it as "地下室のメロディー," despite it actually being "時計台の恐怖." This error is likely the result of how the two tracks were merged together into a single track ("地下室のメロディー～時計台の恐怖,") on almost every albulm that they've appeared on, with the Legend of Game Music 2 Platinum Box being the only instance where they were separate tracks. I'm guessing what might have happened was that someone probably thought that they were just one single track rather than two, so they took the second half of the track and the first half of the title and that's how we ended up with "Clock Tower Fear" being called "Underground Melodies" in DoS. This is what "地下室のメロディー" actually sounds like, it's used in Stage 4 which is an underground area. "時計台の恐怖" is used in Stage 5, which is the clock tower area.

Also, on the topic of Haunted Castle, I was watching the film, Count Dracula a few months back, and I noticed that the Title BGM from Haunted Castle sounded suspiciously similar to this.