#1
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Submissions - Classification
Current Guidelines
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#2
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The current classifications are:
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#3
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I seconded all those suggestions that CHz had done as well:
- Licensed - Unused - Sound Effect - Voice Clip - Silence |
#4
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Aren't we going to classify individual tracks in the future? If so, I think some parts of what we now decide will end up interim measures. I personally prefer, once we have individual track information, implement circle graphs or some other ways to show the ratio of each classification. Anyway, I'll sum up my question/request quickly;
- When to select "Original Soundtrack"? According to the current guideline we have to select "Arrangement" or "Original Works" if there is one track of those kinds, but does the same apply for "Original Soundtrack"? - Is "Vocal" a catch-all classification or not? I think our policy on this is divided, and I guess not a few people prefer to use "Vocal" as a catch-all type, as is shown by the number of the singles and albums classified solely as "Vocal" on this database. Also, if we follow the current guideline more faithfully, we have to classify the recent vocal heavy soundtracks such as Persona, NieR, Subarashiki, Ar tonelico and more as "Original Soundtrack, Vocal", but we don't. I understand this stance though, as I also don't like to add "Vocal" to every Live Event CD/DVD. - A new classification for image/commercial songs. Otherwise, we have to stretch the definition of "Original Works" to cover them. - A new classification for Voice Clip. Or "Talk/Voice". - A new classification for data tracks. As we more often than not include them in the tracklists. - A new classification for movies. As we more often than not include the DVD attached to a limited edition single. |
#5
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One thing I'd like clarification on is the Vocal classification. Just how many vocal tracks does there need to be for it to be used? More than 1? More than 2? A quarter of the album? Half the album? And also, shouldn't the vocal classification be used in conjunction with other classifications? I know at present it's often used on it's own for singles and albums by vocalist, etc. but those should also be 'original work', no?
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#6
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The Circle graph idea is pretty cool. I think we can do that with the same library we are using for our ratings graphs.
We used to only use Vocal for albums that were mostly vocal. However, when we have track-by-track credits, a single vocal track will trigger the classification. So that's pretty much how we've been doing these. Maybe the circle graph will solve the problem of identifying vocal albums from those albums that just have an OP or ED. |
#7
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I'd like some clarifications for drama and talk + game and radio/drama added to the help messages because I keep mistaking them.
When to choose game over radio/drama, or add both or...? (ex.- DJCDs, seem a bit inconsistent) Also, how should I classify this (original drama cd based on a game franchise): publication, radio/drama, game...? |
#8
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There are a couple of confusing things here. We'll definitely need a rewrite.
Classification Talk - This should only be used for tracks where the actors or composers are speaking, but are not in character. Drama - This covers stories, monologues, and radio shows where everyone is in character Category Radio/Drama: For albums that are: - Soundtracks to radio shows or internet audio shows - Drama/DJ/other arranges that are based on characters from radio shows or internet audio shows\ - CDs that reprint material from a radio show or internet audio show - Standalone drama series that aren't related to any game/anime/publication/radio show A drama or DJCD based on characters in a game or anime should be categorized as game or anime. |
#9
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I don't think we regard FFVII Advent Children as Game just because it has game characters like Cloud or Sephiroth (despite the lack of a consensus on whether the product field should have the game name or not), and I personally want to handle radios in the same way, epecially if a radio also has an own product name. |
#10
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I don't know enough Japanese to understand one, so I guess I don't really have a clue of what a DJCD is. If it has game characters at all, I'd probably consider it for the Game category, unless there was enough reason to consider the CD itself a separate product in the franchise. In that regard, any drama CD could be considered a standalone product. If we do that, every drama and DJ CD in the database falls under Radio/Drama, and not under Game or Anime, etc. I'm not sure we want that.
Advent Children is different. It's a music CD that is related to the Advent Children anime product. That product falls under the Final Fantasy VII title along with Final Fantasy VII the game, so the relationship to the game occurs at a higher level. This stuff will all ultimately be more connected when we have products and franchises. |
#11
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Well, I also don't consider the CD itself as a product, but I'm inclined to see the radio show as a standalone product. I would have no problem to categorize drama albums as "Game", because a drama album that is based on the game is, just like a game soundtrack, a "release" from the game product so it makes sense to put it into the game category.
On the other hand, a radio album isn't directly connected to the game itself. A radio show is more like another adaption of the game, and as I stated, its focus is less on the game characters and story. The communications with listeners and the actual personalities of the voice actors, instead. So it looks more fair to me to give radio shows a position as a product like we do for anime or publication. However, I see my viewpoint can potentially conflict some people's structural image of VGMdb; if we start to see a radio show as a product, we may end up adding "products" to the database which basically only covers "releases", because one can argue radio album are closer to game cartridges, game discs and anime DVDs, all of which we don't cover. Since ever I read the discussion on this thread over the album which was a typical Radio/DJCD album, I think I've formed a (possibly wrong) notion that the Drama/Radio category was added to cover this kind of album. Perhaps we need to discuss more about this, when the product table finally comes, or in a category/platform/product discussion thread. |
#12
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I think I may have misled you.
Anything related to a radio show or an internet show does fall under the Talk/Drama category, or at least that's my impression of the purpose for that category. |
#13
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So, unless I've missed something, this is what the new Classification listing would look like:
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In an "image album", and an "image song", is the definition of "image" the same, or are these completely different classifications? Also, when does something qualify as "licensed"? |
#14
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If you want to reduce the number of classification, I'd suggest merging Image and Commercial because when the VG industry uses j-pop songs for Commercial, not in the game, they are often called Image Songs.
By the way, even with so many classifications, I still think it's a bit tricky how to handle the case where the soundtrack and the actual in-game music sound different. This typically happens when the OST covers the composer's original intention that he/she had to give up due to the limitation of the console (the space of memory, the number of channel, whatnot). Or when the album includes a longer version of the opening FMV theme song that is shortened in the game. Or when the composer changes music for an OST release (Go Shiina seems to have this tendency). If both the original version and the in-game version are included, I think we tend to classify the other as "Arrangement" but when only the original version is there, I'm not sure which to select (for instance, our FFXII entry is still classified as Original Soundtrack). I think this may be related to how to use "Remaster" which the current guideline message doesn't refer to. |
#15
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Like CHz said:
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#16
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I'd say the only difference is that an image album will typically end up being like a "beta" version of the OST, with at least some themes from the image album making it into the finished product, though perhaps after being further arranged/edited. As far as I know image singles usually feature vocal track(s) that don't end up in the finished product at all.
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#17
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http://vgmdb.net/album/6958 http://vgmdb.net/album/6329 (according to this comment, they are indeed the prototype versions) http://vgmdb.net/album/16955 http://vgmdb.net/album/11758 http://vgmdb.net/album/18604 |
#18
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We could combine this classification into "Image/Prototype/Unused". I'm not sure where Commercial (as in TV commercial) fits in. It seems like such a small niche that maybe it doesn't need its own classification.
EDIT -- Maybe for conciseness, we should stick with Image/Prototype. |
#19
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http://vgmdb.net/album/8340
http://vgmdb.net/album/8787 http://vgmdb.net/album/9437 http://vgmdb.net/album/15869 http://vgmdb.net/album/19179 I'm not sure how many "Commercial" albums have ever been released so far, but I know we already have several entries (correct me if any of the albums listed above does appear in the games). Also, there are apparently more to add (such as those for FINAL FANTASY CRYSTAL CHRONICLES Echoes of Time, No More Heroes). I know we can use "Original Works" and some descriptions in the note instead of "Commercial", though. As this issue is pretty tough, I want to organize my thoughts for a while, but I feel the term like Image album or Image song is loosely used (it could fall under any of Original Soundtrack, Compilation, Arrangement, Original Work, or Prototypes, depending on the content). |
#20
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I was thinking the "remix" type looks a bit out of place. It's essentially a subset of "arrange" (=music based on another), plus when a track is a 'remix' is often a personal appreciation and doesn't give much actual info to the users. I'd rather stick the more general "arrange".
For example why is this album "arrangement, remix"? Are some tracks 'more arranged' than others? Just because of its name? I agree with Cedille that we could add a classification for those albums that are meant to represent the OSTs but sound different/better like FF12 or many DS OSTs. Maybe "remaster/original"? Also "Sound Effect", "Voice Clip" could be combined in one like "Sounds" for conciseness. Doesn't seem there are that many cases to have them separated. |
#21
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Yeah, we could do this. Voice really only applies to games anyway. Voices in an anime track would probably get filed under Drama. |
#22
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I think remaster should be strictly used for remastered albums. Some DS albums fit, stuff like the FF12 album absolutely do not. It's not an arrange album within the usual definition, but it also doesn't have anything in common with the in-game music's sound design. Imo as soon as the sound on an album significantly diverges from the one in the game it should no longer be called original nor remastered.
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#23
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http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/1234412_1124.html http://zuntata.jp/special/ww/index.html Last edited by Cedille; May 22, 2010 at 10:17 PM. |
#24
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#25
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I have to second the circle diagram idea, very nice. If you also include the ability to filter according to % of classification in the diagram you'd have one hell of a system on your hands.
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#26
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There are other cases like this one, e.g. the Valkyrie Profile DS OST uses newly done arrangements by Sakuraba, while the actual in-game sound was ported (in the cases of reused music from VP1) respectively adapted by Hideki Sakamoto and Yasuhiro Kawagoe (whether that's a case like FF12 I don't know). Tales of Innocence OST, battle tracks from Tales of Legendia apply as well. The reverse case (score redone just for the OST instead direct in-game recordings for whatever reason) exists as well: Tales of Destiny "OST", Tales of Eternia "OST" take one, take two and Tales of Phantasia "OST". Since usually people expect to hear the sounds just like in-game at least some kind of note that the sound does diverge significantly in the above cases is definitely warranted. I don't know if that should be done through classifications though. |
#27
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Same is true for Jade Cocoon and Kileak, Matsumae often re-records and re-mixes his music for soundtrack releases. Actually, pretty much all current-gen albums are similar to this since the music in-game is often interactive and thus built in a different way. The album releases are "arranged" as linear musical pieces to fit the format. It's just something that can't be escaped with game music that is often interactive and/or relies on the hardware/software for in-game playback. Another example is soundtracks for gameboy/NES games that might not use the original hardware but an emulation instead, should we classify them differently too? I don't think so
I still think it's a minor issue but it's interesting to bring up, I personally don't think we need to take any special action.
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#28
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Please listen to one of the example albums I gave. There is nothing minor about the difference between the sound on the album and the in-game sound there. Making non-linear music linear for albums is a whole different issue.
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#29
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Well I believe it's just for remastered reprints (Gigablah's post), maybe that changed? There are only 18 "remasters" right now. That info is probably better in the notes while the "remastered" classification could be extended to cover Datschge's examples (notable sound differences from the game source). It would be nice to know what DS OSTs don't use the DS-fied tracks and such for similar albums. Though the term "remaster" may be misleading since it implies there was post-processing done compared with the OSTs (it's often the other way around). |
#30
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Last edited by Ira; May 25, 2010 at 01:49 PM. |
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