SVWC-7177~8: TENCHU 3 ORIGINAL SOUND TRACK

[Lackadaisical]

Someone with better knowledge of the Japanese language might want to take a quick glance at the tracklisting for this soundtrack again. There's at least one translation error on disc 2 (Track 42) as the English translation does not even remotely match up to its Japanese counterpart on the Japanese tracklisting.

To the best of my ability, it's something like "Connected Playback - Tenchu 3 (Club Remix)", though the first part is too literal for my tastes.

[mercenary09]

Yeah, could someone? I just noticed that and then noticed the discussion is at least.. 2 years old (almost)
40 左京登場
42 連鎖再生～天誅参 Club Remix～

[MiLO]

Disc 2, track 42 "連鎖再生～天誅参 Club Remix～" remixed by Kentaro! (exclamation mark is part of alias).
http://vgmdb.net/db/covers.php?do=view&cover=77286

Added him as an arranger.

Some sources that verify this information:
http://www.jbook.co.jp/p/p.aspx/2232019/s/
http://joshinweb.jp/dp/4534530004680.html
http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/ne...svwc-7177.html

Kentaro! appears to be the same person as DJ Kentaro, according to these source: lastfm.fr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Kentaro.

[413/0]

Myrkul, are you being petty or something? Be thorough when reviewing before rejecting (proper) edits on a whim - there's no need for being counterproductive.

Also, this was ported to the Xbox as Tenchu: Return from Darkness, so I added it as such to the products represented field.

Lastly, MiLO, that last website you listed starting with an 'n' should be edited out from your post for rather obvious reasons...

[MiLO]

Originally Posted by 413/0

Lastly, MiLO, that last website you listed starting with an 'n' should be edited out from your post for rather obvious reasons...

At first I thought "what are you talking about?" , but now I see, yeah nautiljon.com offers it for download, I didn't even see at first, only the links to buy it from play-asia and amazon. Anyways, edited it out.

Originally Posted by 413/0

Also, this was ported to the Xbox as Tenchu: Return from Darkness, so I added it as such to the products represented field.

That brings a question I've been meaning to ask someone from staff - sometimes a game gets ported (years later) to different consoles, but does it mean that the album should be connected to them. Maybe it makes sense to list the consoles of the original release only? Because for example Resident Evil 2 has been ported to just about any major console over the course of years.
But should an album BIOHAZARD 2 COMPLETE TRACK that came out in '98 have consoles represented as Gamecube and PS3 (cause of PSN)?

[413/0]

Originally Posted by MiLO

That brings a question I've been meaning to ask someone from staff - sometimes a game gets ported (years later) to different consoles, but does it mean that the album should be connected to them. Maybe it makes sense to list the consoles of the original release only? Because for example Resident Evil 2 has been ported to just about any major console over the course of years.
But should an album BIOHAZARD 2 COMPLETE TRACK that came out in '98 have consoles represented as Gamecube and PS3 (cause of PSN)?

I'm not a staffer, but personally I don't think there's any harm in listing the consoles a particular soundtrack from a game has been ported to so long as said port retains the soundtrack. Taking the one you referenced as an example, as far as I remember the music is mostly retained throughout each port, so the listing of each console it appears in shouldn't defeat the purpose of the database.

[Dag]

I understand we list the platform(s) the album was for when released, not later platforms.
From the help blurb in the edit page:
"For original soundtracks, please only select the platform that the music comes from, even if the game appeared on multiple platforms. (e.g. Don't select PSX for the new 1991 Final Fantasy IV Soundtrack.)".

For detailed info on ports and all that, there is the "product" feature.
Otherwise it's crazy to mantain every time a port/redistribution happens.

These things were changed over time, some inconsistencies may remain.

[413/0]

Originally Posted by Dag

I understand we list the platform(s) the album was for when released, not later platforms.

I get that, but I don't see any harm in listing any other platform the game was ported to if the soundtrack is untouched in said port. Just my opinion, of course.

Originally Posted by Dag

For detailed info on ports and all that, there is the "product" feature.
Otherwise it's crazy to mantain every time a port/redistribution happens.

I mostly listed Tenchu: Return from Darkness in the products represented field given the name change. Would it be better it be listed in the notes section, then?

[Myrkul]

I rejected your mofication about the "remix" classification, that's all.

I am not agree to add remix to that entry, there's only one remixed track, and i thought we were agree to change classification if "most" track are of that genre.

Also, i said a thousand times, albums/entries are not retro-actives. That album were made for game A in year X, not game A' in year X+10.


I am seriously getting tired being flamed because i make a rejection.
You guys are constantly changing the rules of the game. Fuck this.

[Efendija]

If the album contains at least 1 arrange, drama, remix, or original track, then include it in the classifications.

from current guidelines (aka the first post, further discussion went nowhere anyway), therefore remix classification is ok.

[Myrkul]

Originally Posted by Efendija

from current guidelines (aka the first post, further discussion went nowhere anyway), therefore remix classification is ok.

Ah, you got me there.

Though it's been debated a lot and we haven't found a clear solution.
It seems like i was not agree about this 3 years ago, and i am still not ok about it.

[413/0]

So if the album has a remix, or what have you, that would constitute an additional classification, it should just be left unchanged because "there's only one remixed track". Quite the counterproductive approach for the purposes of the database, wouldn't you agree?

Whether it's a single track or multiples shouldn't be a factor when adding additional categories - that's why they are there in the first place, to classify.

Originally Posted by Myrkul

I am seriously getting tired being flamed because i make a rejection.
You guys are constantly changing the rules of the game. Fuck this.

Wow, such a mature disposition.

[Myrkul]

Please come back when you'll be moderating albums for 6 years.
Deactivating your PMs because you were pissed was also imature.

[Phonograph]

speaking of products

It's best to use the English game name, but you can also include the Japanese and PAL names by including them in parenthesis (e.g. Drakengard (Drag-on Dragoon).

how is it "best" ?
I noticed that a lot of localized titles aren't followed by their japanese title (e.g. seiken densetsu albums)
note that I still don't agree (note for myrkul: please "to agree", not "to be agree") with that localization $H|T
I think that one album should use its primary product title instead of its secondary one (because you could consider a translated product as secondary)
to paraphrase myrkul: a game A for a game A ost, not a game B for a game A ost

oh and the best would rather be "Drag-on Dragoon (Drakengard)" (I never understood why localization should come first -cf. primary/secondary)

you can also include the Japanese and PAL names

so I could edit FFUSA:MQ SC product as "Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest (FF USA: Mystic Quest, Mystic Quest Legend)" ;p

edit: alas, that sort of things isn't possible when a title is linked, pity =)

[413/0]

Originally Posted by Myrkul

Please come back when you'll be moderating albums for 6 years.
Deactivating your PMs because you were pissed was also imature.

You're seriously using the "I've been here more than you" card? What are you, 10?

And yes indeed, I disabled PMs, but I did so since joining here only allowing Mods to contact me. However, since I discovered Admins can do so regardless of my PM settings, I disabled them altogether. What's a shame is not being able to add Mods to one's ignore list...

Originally Posted by Phonograph

to paraphrase myrkul: a game A for a game A ost, not a game B for a game A ost

That's... What? It still is the same soundtrack for the same game regardless if localized names are used (Dynasty Warriors v. Shin Sangokumusou). That makes it sound as if game A is Final Fantasy and game B is Final Fantasy Adventure, as in Seiken Densetsu, a completely different product.

Originally Posted by Phonograph

oh and the best would rather be "Drag-on Dragoon (Drakengard)" (I never understood why localization should come first -cf. primary/secondary)

Most probably, and most certainly because "Drakengard" is far more commonly known than "Drag-on Dragoon". Localized names should be used and made the primary name if and only if a game is localized (pardon the redundancy), otherwise stick with its original name from whichever country it originated from.

Originally Posted by Phonograph

so I could edit FFUSA:MQ SC product as "Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest (FF USA: Mystic Quest, Mystic Quest Legend)" ;p

Honestly, that's a bit messy. Maybe just use the primary localized name and its original title (refer to the Drakengard example).

[Phonograph]

oh, I see you didn't get my point
so, here maybe is a better way to show it (I hope it'll be enough)


ALBUM/T: Drag-on Dragoon Original Soundtrack
PRODUCT: Drag-on Dragoon

ALBUM/T: Drag-on Dragoon Original Soundtrack
PRODUCT: Drakengard


now, which one does make more sense according to you?
you have two possibilities, one is right other is not

(about ffusa, it was a joke like the one I made about tales of eternia/destiny II long ago ;p)

[Dag]

Originally Posted by 413/0

I mostly listed Tenchu: Return from Darkness in the products represented field given the name change. Would it be better it be listed in the notes section, then?

To clarify, I mean linked products like this one: album > product (with various "releases").
Basically it supersedes the need to edit albums. Not sure if regular users can manage that though.

Though I don't think there is any harm on what you did, I guess it was changed for consistency with other entries. So please don't let it get you :/
Consider the staff isn't a monolitic entity, I don't agree with people here and there but we can talk our differences out

[413/0]

Originally Posted by Phonograph

oh, I see you didn't get my point
so, here maybe is a better way to show it (I hope it'll be enough)


ALBUM/T: Drag-on Dragoon Original Soundtrack
PRODUCT: Drag-on Dragoon

ALBUM/T: Drag-on Dragoon Original Soundtrack
PRODUCT: Drakengard


now, which one does make more sense according to you?
you have two possibilities, one is right other is not

I see what you mean, but sincerely there's no contradiction of any kind using the original name for the title and the localized one for the product field, or at least I see it that way. Both of your examples make sense and are right, the latter is simply more convenient.

Originally Posted by Phonograph

(about ffusa, it was a joke like the one I made about tales of eternia/destiny II long ago ;p)

Oh, okay. My bad, I'm a bit slow when it comes to getting jokes.

Originally Posted by Dag

To clarify, I mean linked products like this one: album > product (with various "releases").
Basically it supersedes the need to edit albums. Not sure if regular users can manage that though.

I see what you mean. And no, I'm just allowed to edit albums and artists. But that's about enough, I think.

Originally Posted by Dag

Though I don't think there is any harm on what you did, I guess it was changed for consistency with other entries. So please don't let it get you :/
Consider the staff isn't a monolitic entity, I don't agree with people here and there but we can talk our differences out

Disagreeing without being disagreeable? Yes, that I can mostly certainly do. I just had made other edits that were rejected unnecessarily by the same person, so that's why I acted the way I did. I reckon this website is a labor of love, and that you're all mostly doing this in your spare time, but there's no need to curtail productivity.

[Phonograph]

actually, I still think you didn't get it but it's probably my fault
I forgot to add another thing

the fact that the release is for japanese market must have a product related to japanese market
you can't say a japanese release "has been made" for a non-japanese product (i.e. translated)

(I wonder if I was clear this time)

[Despatche]

:everythingphonographhasbeensaying:

also i am of the opinion it should be "Drag-On Dragoon", just because. ...unless "-on" is official?

convenience only leads to the opposite; there is nothing convenient about being wrong. it hurts people, it hurts your subject, it hurts everything. how many people might know of a name is irrelevant; we should go after what the thing's actual name is, which is usually much easier to figure out ("which came first?") and isn't technically a giant guess.

the day people adopt an "original names" policy is the day we inject a huge amount of Correct and Consistency into our lives.

[413/0]

Phonograph, there's no need to continue explaining the same thing over again, I do get what you're talking about. I'm simply walking between the line because I don't care which of those two are used. Rockman or Mega Man, Bare Knuckle or Streets of Rage, Shin Sangokumusou or Dynasty Warriors, Ghosts 'n Goblins or Makaimura, Akumajo Dracula or Castlevania, Drag-on Dragoon or Drakengard, so on and so forth, whichever name is used works.

Originally Posted by Despatche

also i am of the opinion it should be "Drag-On Dragoon", just because. ...unless "-on" is official?

convenience only leads to the opposite; there is nothing convenient about being wrong. it hurts people, it hurts your subject, it hurts everything. how many people might know of a name is irrelevant; we should go after what the thing's actual name is, which is usually much easier to figure out ("which came first?") and isn't technically a giant guess.

the day people adopt an "original names" policy is the day we inject a huge amount of Correct and Consistency into our lives.

But saying "just because" is a cop out for convenience...

Don't get me wrong, I reckon that using original names will certainly make things accurate, but consistency was never compromised in the first place. Like I said, however, I truly don't care which is used. Honestly, though, I haven't seen this being an issue in other places around here, so I'm not sure what the overall consensus is.

And yes, the "-on" is part of the name.

[Phonograph]

Originally Posted by 413/0

.. there's no need to continue explaining the same thing over again ...

I don't know if you know it but it's a method used by teachers
repeating again and again would allow to remember what they teach (I heard that from a teacher himself)
so don't be surprised if I repeat things sometimes =)

[MiLO]

Originally Posted by Phonograph

I don't know if you know it but it's a method used by teachers
repeating again and again would allow to remember what they teach (I heard that from a teacher himself)

You mean it helps a teacher to memorize what the hell he's trying to preach, so that next morning he already knows what to say to his students? Hm, so true.
[/just kiddin]

[Despatche]

Originally Posted by 413/0

But saying "just because" is a cop out for convenience...

well, i can't exactly do much with reality. it's not even a "just because", it's a "this doesn't even exist". you will almost never find localized titles on these albums, so they should almost never appear on this site. hidden redirects are good, passing off a second-rate title as a first-rate is bad.

Originally Posted by 413/0

And yes, the "-on" is part of the name.

...wait, really? can i get a scan or a website or something?

[413/0]

Originally Posted by Despatche

well, i can't exactly do much with reality. it's not even a "just because", it's a "this doesn't even exist". you will almost never find localized titles on these albums, so they should almost never appear on this site. hidden redirects are good, passing off a second-rate title as a first-rate is bad.

Well, for point of reference they should. We're given the option of adding alt. title names when submitting an album, so localized names should be a shoo-in.

Originally Posted by Despatche

...wait, really? can i get a scan or a website or something?

Japanese PS2 cover/inlay scan.

[Despatche]

Yes, but those titles should be hidden from the albums at least, and made very clear that they are peasantry on the product pages.

Sorry, I was referring to "Drag-on Dragoon", with a lowercase o. I know the title's obviously "DRAG-ON DRAGOON", but do we pick "-O" or "-o"? I just think -O would be nicer for "a title written against English".

Though now that you've brought it up, fun fact: the title wants to be three words ("drag-on" wants to be treated as a compound of sorts); check out that katakana. Rarely do you get spaces even with two word phrases!

[Efendija]

As far as I'm concerned, use of game localized titles for alternative (mostly) lines never was and won't be an issue. Besides, it makes the albums searchable using the localizations. The problem would be the use of titles that aren't official, we don't want that (it happened in the past, with the games that never got an English release so there were some unofficially translated titles). The only thing that's a bit inconsistent is whether to put it as display or alternative (probably better) line.

[Despatche]

Yeah, with that Witcher album, it makes more sense to put the Polish as display and the English as alternative so it's correct and easy to search; I've gone and done that, feel free to yell at me. The alternative field is great, though I kinda wish the entire search algorithm searched by products first, so we wouldn't really need so many fields.

[Phonograph]

just a thought, but "Drag-on Dragoon" seems better to me
since "Drag-On DragoOn" would be ugly ;p

[413/0]

Originally Posted by Despatche

Yes, but those titles should be hidden from the albums at least, and made very clear that they are peasantry on the product pages.

Sorry, I was referring to "Drag-on Dragoon", with a lowercase o. I know the title's obviously "DRAG-ON DRAGOON", but do we pick "-O" or "-o"? I just think -O would be nicer for "a title written against English".

Now you're just being absurdly anal.