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  #1  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 11:30 AM
Matron Matron is offline
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I'm new here and I decided to add the tracklist both in English and Japanese. I fucked up and in the end I added accidentally 2 tracklist in japanese. Anyone can delete the first japanese tracklist? The second one is from Falcom's website with the tracklist. Thank you very much and I'm sorry.

Talking about the music itself, it's me or the Ys IV's arrangements have a sound quality worthy of a Pre-Arrange Album? I mean, just hear 'Battle #58' on YouTube and you will see it. At least the new songs sounds very good.
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  #2  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 12:03 PM
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done
if in the future you make another error like this one, you can change the language into "delete" (useful for people who can delete erronous tracklists)

Last edited by Phonograph; Oct 26, 2012 at 12:06 PM.
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  #3  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 12:28 PM
jdkluv jdkluv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matron View Post
Talking about the music itself, it's me or the Ys IV's arrangements have a sound quality worthy of a Pre-Arrange Album? I mean, just hear 'Battle #58' on YouTube and you will see it. At least the new songs sounds very good.
I think you're right about that (this ain't quite the "Oath in Celceta" I've lusted after for years), although some arrangements, like Burning Sword, have been setting my soul on fire for the past fortnight. I'm disappointed for that precise reason though, as it just shows the potential Falcom did not tap by leaving out a lot of other tracks.
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  #4  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 01:22 PM
GoldfishX GoldfishX is offline
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I'm surprised how tiny the tracklist is, considering the original Ys IV is about 60-80 tracks long. This seems to be about half that, with several new stuffs in there.

Curious.

Edit: Also surprised no reprint of the Ys IV Perfect Collections. Those things have been due for reprinting for close to 10 years now, this would seem like the optimal excuse.

Last edited by GoldfishX; Oct 26, 2012 at 01:24 PM.
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  #5  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 01:33 PM
jdkluv jdkluv is offline
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The lack of Karna disturbs me the most.
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  #6  
Old Oct 26, 2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkluv View Post
I think you're right about that (this ain't quite the "Oath in Celceta" I've lusted after for years), although some arrangements, like Burning Sword, have been setting my soul on fire for the past fortnight. I'm disappointed for that precise reason though, as it just shows the potential Falcom did not tap by leaving out a lot of other tracks.
I would be happy with something like Ys I&II Chronicles and Brandish: The Dark Revenant. We SERIOUSLY need a Super Arrange Version (and 'A Great Ordeal' MUST be in).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkluv View Post
The lack of Karna disturbs me the most.
You should be more than disturbed with all the music that didn't appeared in the game. Now they released the tracklist, we got to the conclusion that the following Ys IV's songs did not appear in the game:

Quote:
A Great Ordeal
A New Beginning
Anxiety
Arem
Beyond Reminiscence
Broken Hourglass
Bronze District
Crimson Wings
Fantasy Horizon
Field
Fountain of Love '93
Game Over
House
Illusion
Karna
Leeza
Leeza - Hiding Her Thoughts in Her Heart
Prison House (Unused Music)
Quickening of the Ancient City
Sadness
Shrine of the Sun
Temple (Unused Music)
The Ancient City Surfaces
The Clan of Darkness
The Five Disciples
The Syobainan
Valley of Quicksand
Verse of the Blue Moon
Walking the Path of Legend


And I don't know if I'm happy or not to see 'Tower' in the OST when it's an unused track. At least it doesn't have a Rebook Audio version so the arrangement itself doesn't hurt as much as the rest like, for example, Harlequin's Temptation (it doesn't have Star Trek voices! WTF?)

Last edited by Matron; Oct 26, 2012 at 03:23 PM.
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  #7  
Old Oct 28, 2012, 05:38 AM
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There's a new interview in Dengeki with Falcom president about Celceta (in japanese). He says that the main directors of Celceta never knew Celceta was based off of Ys IV until half way through development and that Ys Celceta was supposed to be 'Ys 8'. Maybe there's something interesting about the sound quality or something.

BTW, it seems the game has new music and surprisingly the sound quality is FAR better. Just hear this examples people, it's good stuff: 1, 2 and 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
Speaking of Ys Celesta, if we're to add a product entry in this site, should it be a remake (release of YsIV)? Or would it deserve a separate entry?
I think it's half new and half remake, but I'm not sure.

Last edited by Matron; Oct 28, 2012 at 05:52 AM.
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  #8  
Old Oct 28, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Thank you Hellacia.

And yes, back on topic: I really like samples 1 and 2. Not sure how I feel about the third ... yeah it rocks in a DragonForce kind of way, and Jindo-esque violin is cool, but it is a little too much for the senses.
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  #9  
Old Oct 28, 2012, 11:55 AM
Matron Matron is offline
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Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
Matron: sorry bro, totally not impressed by any of the songs you linked to. The first one was the most decent, the second one was blah, and the third one was just ugh. Now I have cemented that I will be skipping this soundtrack. But I guess learning this was a good thing.
I just posted those ones as examples. Gestriden has uploaded more tracks on his YouTube channel (not the full OST, just 27/36 tracks), maybe you like one of those (I think you'll not but who knows).

But seriously, I don't get why the new music sounds better than the arranged music (not even the sound quality is meh, the arrangements itself are rather boring (well I actually like 'Tower' and 'Battle #58' is disappointing, but it's not too difficult to be better than both JDK Specials)). Anyone knows if the Dengeki interview says something about the music? I want to believe that Falcom Sound Team was to busy this year with the Nayuta's OST, the arranged ZnK Evolution OST, Boss Zanmai and the Ys album.
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  #10  
Old Oct 28, 2012, 12:43 PM
GoldfishX GoldfishX is offline
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Coming from a huge fan of the Ys IV Perfect Collections, Ys IV Redbook and even the Ys IV JDK Special (chiptune de-mixes of most of the original Ys IV score), the tracks I've sampled aren't doing it for me at all. I want to say it's mostly the samples being used. Crater of Gidonia is probably the best track I've heard thus far and I'm mixed with how it sounds overall.

Felghana lost me because it tried to do too much of everything, nothing particularly well (hard rock, techno and orchestral vs the splendid keyboard-laced power rock of the redbook audio). Some of the newer tracks have this identity crisis trait, but even the straight rock tracks are just outright boring and pretty stagnant.

In my mind, the Ys IV Perfect Collections are one of the cornerstones of VGM (despite the fact that several tracks are simply reused and possibly remastered versions of the redbook audio) and my thinking is you either improve on them or don't even attempt. This music doesn't come close to them.
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  #11  
Old Oct 28, 2012, 01:03 PM
jdkluv jdkluv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldfishX View Post
In my mind, the Ys IV Perfect Collections are one of the cornerstones of VGM (despite the fact that several tracks are simply reused and possibly remastered versions of the redbook audio) and my thinking is you either improve on them or don't even attempt. This music doesn't come close to them.
I still think this will be a solid OST, but yeah. A real shame fat-Uematsu did not return to arrange Ys IV anew!
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  #12  
Old Oct 28, 2012, 01:11 PM
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This thread has garnered some attention! Like Razakin and Hellacia, I am of the same mind that The Oath in Felghana is a masterpiece of VGM, it's one of my all-time favorites and I wouldn't be without but a single track on it (I don't care for the game over track). For me, the examples posted here aren't so bad. It's just that it's too easy (for me, at least) to start making comparisons to Felghana's arrangement quality right away, and then sure, this stuff will seem lackluster. Maybe I'm unfairly expecting something of this soundtrack. When it comes out, I look forward to listening to it in full and getting a feel for its entirety, because the samples can only do it so much justice as a full musical work.
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  #13  
Old Oct 28, 2012, 04:31 PM
GoldfishX GoldfishX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkluv View Post
I still think this will be a solid OST, but yeah. A real shame fat-Uematsu did not return to arrange Ys IV anew!
Haha, I had thought the same thing about Yonemitsu as well. I've only seen a handful of pictures of him, but yeah...fat-Uematsu is very true.

I think that is why I do not care for newer Falcom samples...Yonemitsu's synths and drum programming were just so damn colorful and guitars were not overused, more like well-placed for maximum effect. And I far prefer Yonemitsu's style of electronica to the beats in newer Falcom soundtracks. The Sorcerian and Ys IV Megamixes are all great stuff. It's same dillemma I have with his Perfect Collection stuff vs old school JDK Band. Kishimoto's arrangements rock harder, but Yonemitsu's are more well-crafted and planned out.

Last edited by GoldfishX; Oct 28, 2012 at 04:38 PM.
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  #14  
Old Oct 31, 2012, 03:28 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Could anybody teach me how much of this soundtrack is from Ys IV? Only those credited to the freelance artists? (Jindo, Okajima and Kamikura) Or is there more?

The staff role credits four individual names of Falcom's current in-house sound team, but it's likely their roles were closer to arrangers and "Falcom Sound Team jdk" here actually means that of a totally different generation (consisting of Atsushi Shirakawa, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Masaru Nakajima, Naoki Kaneda and Takahiro Tsunashima).
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  #15  
Old Oct 31, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Just going by titles and not listening to the music, the following are from Ys IV:

Disc 1 - Tracks 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 18, 19, most likely 17
Disc 2 - Tracks 2, 3, 6, 9, 11, 13, most likely 5 and 16.

So about half.
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  #16  
Old Oct 31, 2012, 11:01 AM
Matron Matron is offline
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Someone should add the original composers of Ys IV ala Brandish: The Dark Revenant.

Judging by the credits, only the new songs uses real instruments. I still can't figure why the hell they put Ys IV stuff on this game when his president says in interviews things like "this is not Ys IV" or "Ys Celceta was planned to be Ys 8". It's just ugh.

Also, Falcom hired Toshinori Hiramatsu for some guitar stuff? Nice... Oh shit, now I remembered The Legend of Xanadu and how Falcom will never make a remake or an official Super Arrange Version. That game has a lot of great music, and I mean A LOT (3 CDs with 110 music tracks).

Last edited by Matron; Oct 31, 2012 at 11:39 AM.
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  #17  
Old Oct 31, 2012, 11:22 AM
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bah Ys IV-2 (4*2=8)
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  #18  
Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matron View Post
Also, Falcom hired Toshinori Hiramatsu for some guitar stuff? Nice... Oh shit, now I remembered The Legend of Xanadu and how Falcom will never make a remake or an official Super Arrange Version. That game has a lot of great music, and I mean A LOT (3 CDs with 110 music tracks).
Official LoX SAV. Not as enjoyable as Kleene, though. And hey, Hiramatsu. Only on one track though - the one lacking those Star Trek voices!
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  #19  
Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:32 AM
Matron Matron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkluv View Post
Official LoX SAV. Not as enjoyable as Kleene, though.
I never liked that album very much... We'll never going to hear better LoX arrangements than Falcom Special Box '94. The second disc is just a masterpiece (and the Popful Mail disc simply ROCKS).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkluv View Post
And hey, Hiramatsu. Only on one track though - the one lacking those Star Trek voices!
You mean 'Harlequin's Temptation'? The tracklist says he's the guitarrist in D2-9 (Black Wings), which I think it's this track.

Last edited by Matron; Nov 1, 2012 at 04:44 AM.
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  #20  
Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldfishX View Post
Just going by titles and not listening to the music, the following are from Ys IV:

Disc 1 - Tracks 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 18, 19, most likely 17
Disc 2 - Tracks 2, 3, 6, 9, 11, 13, most likely 5 and 16.

So about half.
Thanks! Your lists include a couple tracks credited to Jindo or Okajima, but that or "Playing arranged by work of new songs for Ys: Foliage Ocean in CELCETA" would indicate that those outside musicians mostly did the arrangement of new tracks for Celceta, not so much with Ys IV tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matron View Post
Someone should add the original composers of Ys IV ala Brandish: The Dark Revenant
Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know which track(s) is (are) from that album.

So the credits of this album would be pretty complicated; if this album doesn't cover every composition on Ys IV or Brandish: The Dark Revenant, it'd not be that good to list every possible composer from the staff credit, and perhaps the safest way is to keep things just plain "Falcom Sound Team jdk", no individual names. We're currently unable to credit artists without specifying roles, and that's also one of the problems here.
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  #21  
Old Nov 1, 2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know which track(s) is (are) from that album.
It's was just an example: that Brandish soundtrack is a remake which cites the members of Sound Team jdk who worked on it (the ones who appears in the ending credits) and the original composers (Mieko Ishikawa and Atsushi Shirakawa in blue color). That Brandish soundtrack has nothing to do with this.

What I recommend is to put as composers something like this:

Quote:
Falcom Sound Team jdk (Hayato Sonoda, Takahiro Unisuga, Saki Momiyama, Tomokatsu Hagiuda, Atsushi Shirakawa, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Masaru Nakajima, Naoki Kaneda, Takahiro Tsunashima)
Those in blue are the original composers of the Ys IV music, which some of the tracks were used and arranged for this game by the actual Sound Team jdk. I recommend to put them and then explain in the "Notes" which tracks are from the original Ys IV.
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  #22  
Old Nov 1, 2012, 10:02 AM
jdkluv jdkluv is offline
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Where does "Atsushi Shirakawa, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Masaru Nakajima, Naoki Kaneda, Takahiro Tsunashima" come from, incidentally? Dawn of Ys has a generic sound team credit, according to MobyGames whereas SEMO list those aforementioned people, along with Mieko Ishikawa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matron View Post
You mean 'Harlequin's Temptation'? The tracklist says he's the guitarrist in D2-9 (Black Wings), which I think it's this track.
My bad, I checked the wrong disc - Black Wings indeed. Whoever named that track must have known what everyone was expecting it would be an arrangement of!
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  #23  
Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkluv View Post
Where does "Atsushi Shirakawa, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Masaru Nakajima, Naoki Kaneda, Takahiro Tsunashima" come from, incidentally? Dawn of Ys has a generic sound team credit, according to MobyGames whereas SEMO list those aforementioned people, along with Mieko Ishikawa.
That list has been around for ages (even the venerable tk_nz gives it), but the end credits of neither the SNES nor the TG-CD versions of Ys IV list composers, so I've never been quite sure of its source. Maybe opening credits, maybe a manual? I don't know.
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  #24  
Old Nov 1, 2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkluv View Post
Where does "Atsushi Shirakawa, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Masaru Nakajima, Naoki Kaneda, Takahiro Tsunashima" come from, incidentally? Dawn of Ys has a generic sound team credit, according to MobyGames whereas SEMO list those aforementioned people, along with Mieko Ishikawa.
I got it from the Ys IV JDK Special which cites the composers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHz View Post
That list has been around for ages (even the venerable tk_nz gives it), but the end credits of neither the SNES nor the TG-CD versions of Ys IV list composers, so I've never been quite sure of its source. Maybe opening credits, maybe a manual? I don't know.
I have a theory: maybe because at the same time Falcom released the Ys IV JDK Special, they also released the The Legend of Xanadu JDK Special, so the members of Sound Team JDK should be the same ones for both soundtracks. That could work, if it wasn't because Mieko Ishikawa didn't worked on Ys IV (because she didn't wanted to or because she was to busy at that time? I think the answer is the second one). So I think there should be an album or something with that information somewhere too.

Dammit Falcom. Why they just put "All music by Falcom Sound Team jdk" in all their albums without a composer list? Ironically, they DO cite the arrangers and the performers.

Last edited by Matron; Nov 2, 2012 at 03:34 PM.
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  #25  
Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:16 AM
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I feel the need to put this in a separate post.

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Originally Posted by GoldfishX View Post
and even the Ys IV JDK Special (chiptune de-mixes of most of the original Ys IV score)
Seems unfair to call it "chiptune", but...

I'm told these are prototypes for a PC-98 release that never happened. The same might have happened with TLoX, but it's different there.
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  #26  
Old Nov 3, 2012, 06:28 AM
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In every description of the Ys IV JDK Special I've read claims it uses the Sharp X68000 synth... but on what basis do people make this claim? Most Japanese sites only refer to it as FM music, and I hear no sign of the X68000's PCM Channel in any of the songs.

So, could it be that the music on that CD and the Falcom Special Box '95 is not using the X68000 chip, but the PC-8801's? Or more precisely, that this was the "source music" Falcom was possibly GOING to use, but ended up giving to Tonkinhouse and Hudson to make their versions instead? It seems to make more sense to me, and I thought someone mentioned that Falcom had initially planned to make it themselves on the PC-8801/9801 before not doing so... for... some reason... Maybe because Falcom was to busy developing The Legend of Xanadu?

In any case, I could be completely wrong, so feel free to say what you think.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matron View Post
Or more precisely, that this was the "source music" Falcom was possibly GOING to use
I've entertained that very possibility in the past, strangely enough. I think the compelling evidence was the inclusion of the unreleased tracks (one of which was used in the SNES version). So I thought it could well be what Yonemitsu and CUBE were given to then arrange for the PCE and SNES, respectively. I was hoping Foliage would sort it out and Falcom would release some sort of premium box, like they did with Felghana, but alas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matron View Post
In every description of the Ys IV JDK Special I've read claims it uses the Sharp X68000 synth... but on what basis do people make this claim? Most Japanese sites only refer to it as FM music, and I hear no sign of the X68000's PCM Channel in any of the songs.
Whatever it is, it sounds awesome. The enhanced bass really makes some of my favourite tracks stand out.
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  #28  
Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
So far Celceta sounds pretty bad, but it's definitely not a disgrace to VGM in my opinion, simply because it's just not bad enough. Sure, what I heard is generic and uninteresting and I don't even like the synth quality, but here's one somehow redeeming thing I can say about Celceta's music: it's video game music. It doesn't sound like it was written to be some sort of eclectic musical masterpiece, it sounds like it was written to fit into areas, scenes, and battles in a video game. At the very least, I get some sort of imagery of video game content when I hear the music. When I hear Soukaigi, I get the imagery of Kikuta stroking his musical-genius-peen, and as you can probably guess, that's not pleasant imagery, I don't want to see that when I listen to anything. Just my two cents on this soundtrack though.
Heh, I guess I have a similar feeling with some of these updated Falcom scores: It sounds like classic VGM, but they are trying to somehow legitimize it with more modern sounds (harder guitars, techno, orchestral samples). I thought I would like Felghana at first, but then it got to the point where I just dreaded listening to it. Same deal for Ys I and II Chronicles, although not to the same annoying degree as Felghana. Celceta just feels like a weaker version of the same deal.

I've never really been on board with Soukaigi, outside of Fire Wire, as I tend to prefer Kikuta's "gamier" sounding works (Seiken 3 being my favorite).
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  #29  
Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Anyone saw anything interesting on the interview I posted in the page 1? It seems Kondo talk about the development of the game and more. I found this summary on the XSEED forums:

Quote:
- Ys Celceta was originally planned to be Ys 8
- The main directors of Celceta never knew Celceta was based off of Ys IV until half way through development
- The music, and the reason they took that direction with the arrangements
- More detail on how Ys games are just stories based on Adol's Diary entries.
- Adol is 17 in Ys Celceta, and 23 in Ys Seven
- There are multiple Adventure Diaries in the 'Ys' world. (Possibly hinting we might see another game like Origin sometime? Where Adol is not the MC?)
- Falcom has received 1000+ new fans, and download of Ys Seven increased tremendously after Celceta released.
- An 'Ys Tribute' is in the works which will feature illustrations and a new original story for Adol.
- The World of Ys can be expanded, as the Ys World is based on Europe, there are the 3 Batlic states, and can even draw in more detail the areas of UK and scotland to add into the Ys World.
- They want to revive "Jumping" in Ys.
- They look foward to celebrating Ys 50th anniversary when it comes.
Anyone can find that and translate it?
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  #30  
Old Nov 3, 2012, 04:19 PM
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More or less, he says they had talks about doing their own Celceta Ys for +10 years (previous ones were by other companies based on Falcom's ideas), and now with the 25 anniversary jumped to the chance.
At the beginning the staff deliberately didn't play or consider Ys IV(s) to avoid preconceptions (evidently Kondo had already). Only halfway through the development when things were more set they started to add feedback (memorable scenes, voice actors, arrangements, etc).
The music is meant to be a mix of old and new.

No idea about the "Ys 8" or "directors were clueless" parts.


Since Falcom didn't make any Ys IV, I guess they "can't" remake them? It's clear they want it to be their own thing, inviting to new users, and with the right amount of nostalgia too.


EDIT: Celceta > PC YsIV
102 > 108
103 > 207
104 > 205
105 > 110
106 > 116
107 > 114
108 > 117
109 > 303
110 > 313
111 > 112
114 > 208
117 > 201
118 > 214
119 > 106
202 > 107
203 > 209
204 > 302 (Special Box '95)
206 > 306
207 > 305 (Special Box '95)
210 > (Ys 1)
211 > 213
213 > 314
216 > 301

The rest (1.01, 1.12, 1.13, 1.15, 1.16, 2.01, 2.05, 2.08, 2.09, 2.14, 2.15, 2.17) are new (only ones arranged by Jindo and co.)

Last edited by Dag; Nov 16, 2012 at 07:55 AM.
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