|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Hey isdapi why did you change the track "Saint Shinwa" to "Soldier Dream Instrumental"?
the Soldier Dream instrumental (from Broadway) is totally different by arrangement from this Saint Shinwa track on this album. Also the last track same thing. The tracklist on back cover and on disc give only 聖闘士神話 & 夢旅人. On the booklet there are 聖闘士神話 (インストルメンタル) & 夢旅人 (インストルメンタル), with (Instrumental) is printed in lower size. Also the (ソルジャードリーム) printed over 聖闘士神話 in the booklet and in the back cover is printed in lower size. Last edited by depa; Jan 22, 2014 at 04:16 AM. |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
without forgetting that "balmung sword" is quite stupid, it's like havin "excalibur sword" (would make no sense)
isdapi: if you dare to touch my eternal box tracklist, I delete it (or I delete you) |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
also from others album:
ペガサス流星拳 to Pegasus Meteor Fist YOU ARE MY REASON TO BE ~愛は瞳の中に~ to YOU ARE MY REASON TO BE ~Love is in the Eyes~ 鳳翼天翔~不死鳥のはばたき to Phoenix's Wings Rise ~ Phoenix's Flapping Wings and others..... all tracklist edits seem to be taken from others site translation (wiki, SS fan page, ecc...) damn we had a perfect syncronization beetween all albums in the database Last edited by depa; Jan 22, 2014 at 07:45 AM. |
#4
|
|||||
|
|||||
Believe it or not, I'd written a long reply to why I've been doing these edits to the tracklists of some old Saint Seiya albums. It even included a joke about my plan to dominate the world because I'm a gemini (Saga/Kanon reference).
First things first, I didn't want to upset anyone with those recent edits but it seems I did it. Tracklist translations are a dangerous territory to venture into, so I don't know if I will be able to convince you that my approach to these tracklists is valid. If you guys want to revert it back, I'm not going to cry, either way. So, there go my reasons: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And in the same vein, I've changed some tracktitles as "Sad Brothers" instead of "Sorrowful Brothers", or "Cosmo of Friendship" instead of "Friendly Cosmo" because the new translations don't add anything new to the old and way more widespread translations of the said tracks. I don't see translating as a fight of egos, and if I see an existing translation for a track which is accurate enough, then I'll stick to it. Quote:
Quote:
And one last thing, depa, if you have access to the booklets of those old albums, could you check if there is any information about the musicians who performed under the name of Andromeda Harmonic Orchestra. This scan is the only one that I've seen that contains information about the musicians of this legendary orchestra, and I'd like to know who performed under that 'Ad Hoc' orchestra. So, if you can provide better scans or images with better resolution to identify the performers, your help or any help would be greatly appreciated. |
#5
|
||||||
|
||||||
Quote:
Quote:
it's not simply a word or a sentence in some dialogues, no it's the name of an attack (or attacks) Quote:
I'm sure songs like "thriller" (mj) or whatever never been translated in other languages, so why japanese songs should be an exception just because people don't know the meaning? a song like "yakusoku wa iranai" is easier to remember as romaji as translations which can differ according to a lot of sites/material (and translations can corrupt the original meaning) Quote:
it's just localization shit, like with pokemon etc. it's often not a good idea to use localization because sometimes you completely lose the sense of the original tracknames Quote:
what the heck are talking about? it's nothing new, you just see that new because you referred my tracklist with sites using the same translation for years, as said above I don't need that to make my own translations Quote:
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks for the reply
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by depa; Jan 23, 2014 at 11:37 PM. |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
my eternal box tracklist and credits are based on scans of eternal edition tracklists/credits btw
|
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#9
|
|||||
|
|||||
Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that those techniques have names in english, and I repeat they're not fan translations. So, why do we have to put romaji terms into an English tracklist if those terms have its equivalents in english. I can understand you prefer the romaji terms over the english translations, but I don't see the point in having a romaji tracklist and an english tracklist if they're showing the same. And those techniques aren't a proper name, they have a literal meaning and that's a valid reason to translate them into english. Quote:
Well, it's your opinion that romaji tracklists are easier to remember, but that's not a fact, and it's not even relevant for the matter. Yeah, translations can corrupt the original meaning, the same way that romaji transcriptions can corrupt the original meaning because if you're taking as original source a tracktitle written in kanji, you'll know that some kanjis can be read in more than one way and if you don't have furigana written over them you can't be 100% sure that the reading you're assigning them is the reading that it was intended. Uncertainty and differences about how a track should be romanized or translated are the same, you choose to leave it in romaji or to translate it into english. But, hey, we'll always have the original japanese tracklists (original meaning 100% guaranteed!) Quote:
And now, the core point of my reasoning. The whole reason of translating into english a tracklist is to offer to an english speaking or understanding audience a tracklist that this audience can relate to. It's not use, no matter how faithful your translated tracklist is with respect to the original meaning, if the target audience can't relate to it. Sure, anyone can do his own tracklist translation, but if you want to do one with which people can relate to, you'll have to rely on localization and terms that may be substantially different from the original ones. If you're doing an english tracklist is natural to stick to terms used in the english version of the show, to use them as references, and if you want to see intact the original meaning of the tracktitles, stay with the original jap. tracklist, as easy as that. Quote:
At the end, it all comes down to personal preferences, so if you don't like my edits for whatever reason I give you my permission to do what you see fit. Last edited by isdapi; Jan 24, 2014 at 04:11 PM. |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
if you respect the meaning of "Sword of Balmung", it gives "Sword of a Sword"
dare to say me it has sense |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
If a word is a name, then obviously, don't translate it. But barring that, the title of a song written in Japanese has a meaning in English just like any other song, BGM or not. Or do you think that when they write Suteki da ne, they aren't asking "Isn't it lovely?" You think they're writing those words for the sake of writing Japanese characters? No, those words have a meaning. We should discover that meaning in our language like the meaning of any other song name. "Suteki da ne" doesn't mean "Suteki da ne" and so it doesn't belong in an English tracklist whose point is to discover what the Japanese words mean. If not, then otherwise again, why are we translating anything. Also, if you're going to argue that it's the song's name: yes, it is, just like every single song on this database that we have a translation for. Track 5 in Alundra is named 悪夢 and so we shouldn't translate it as nightmare "just because people don't know the meaning" of Akumu, so let's just leave it like Akumu because that's the song's name. Then at that point let's just romaji everything. I don't mean to be belligerent, but there really isn't a good reason to keep things that have a meaning in English in romaji, unless it's a name or Japanese term (good reading on that). Last edited by SimonJXZ; Jan 25, 2014 at 12:38 AM. |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
if one follows what you said, why not translating album titles and products too since it has a meaning (meanings)
and while we're at it, why not replacing yen price by an english equivalent after all it's only for japanese people not english people paying in dollars etc. (warn me the day it happens in order to quit using the site) |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Okay then, feel free to lay out the criteria of when a song name gets translated versus when it doesn't. Because right now, we have:
Here are some honest questions for you (no smart-ass rhetorical ones just to prove a point): are you against English tracklists altogether? Would you rather everything be a romaji tracklist? Because the purpose of an English tracklist is to write out the meanings of the Japanese song names. When we stop doing that for a certain type of song, when do we then stretch the rationale we used there to stop translating names of all types of songs? As for the money thing, that's a terrible counter argument as it's completely irrelevant to what we're discussing, which is when to translate the name of a song. It's apples and oranges. Last edited by SimonJXZ; Jan 25, 2014 at 01:36 AM. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
you have won, I'm pissed off
I removed all my "saint seiya eternal xxx" english tracklists and from now, I stop submitting english tracklists (maybe other tracklists too) maybe I should remove all my english tracklists |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
But you can't expect to say things like Quote:
Each translator has its own way of doing things, and no approach is better than the other. The only thing I want to know about your translation approach is: 1. Why do you insist in including romaji terms in an english tracklist when there are alternatives of said terms in english? Quote:
Quote:
And yes, please, make those scans real, I'm dying to see musician credits of these legendary albums. |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
Songs should be also translated, and I think album titles also should be translated (but put the translations as fourth or fifth entry on the album title.
And the translation for バルムングの剣を求めて would probably work better if it would be "Searching the Sword Balmung", or something like that? Also, coe, stop being such a dramaqueen about people disagreeing you and doing silly threats and actions. You really do look like a child with those actions.
__________________
vgmdb - serious business, only.
|
#17
|
||||
|
||||
no no it's not a threat, I think I'll ask SS for a complete deletion of my english tracklists
|
#18
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Phonograph, why do you want to remove all your previous work? Did something in this discussion fundamentally alter your perspective about having or creating English translations here? I'm sure nobody would say your English tracklist submissions are worthless or something similarly bad. Certainly nobody wants you to stop contributing or for your previous efforts go to waste. Your knowledge is very helpful to the community at large and your work on the site is one of the things that keeps it running smoothly. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Phonograph, what do I win? I'm just trying to get you to explain things. Right now I really don't have a lot of information from you - when to translate, when not to translate, and most importantly, why. Like I and others have said, you can't just say to do things and not give any reasons why. That's... not how anything in the world works, not just VGMdb. If you have valid arguments as to why we should not translate certain things, please supply them. And certainly, you shouldn't remove your English tracklists just because you can't have your exact way with them. I'd love to translate ludicrous stuff like Theme of Adoru into Theme of Adol, but I don't refuse to edit here just because I can't. Likewise, if most people agreed that song names shouldn't be translated, I wouldn't want to quit for that reason either. |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Also, if you're the kind of person that's going to have a good point brought against them and then ragequit and delete his stuff, you're a liability. I don't think you should be given privileges to delete material if you're going to abuse it to satisfy some silly defeatist reaction. That's harmful to the database, and on a certain level even vandalism. I don't dislike you, and you've done great work for VGMdb obviously, but you need to learn how to exist in the world with other people. If all it takes is for someone to come along with a different opinion of how to do things than yours for you to want to lash out like this, you have some serious growing up to do, the world is just not like that. You can't have your perfect little way because your opinion on how to do things is right, so you'd rather just say screw everyone? Make your own database then, you can have your way there, and let us know how it turns out because it won't be nearly as widespread or successful as this one. This is a database of many opinions, learn how to discuss yours with others like an adult, not act out when you don't unconditionally get your way. Last edited by Mortavia; Jan 25, 2014 at 02:43 PM. |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
my english translations aren't my property?
that's the reason why I stop that, if I have no control/right over my own work so there is no reason I continue I hate when people allow themselves to touch anything especially when they are beginners (if it was someone like Dag, I wouldn't mind) and that's not something new, it makes months I think about deleting my english tracklists and that thread helped me |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
So, people can't fix your translations if there's errors on there, or make them work better in english? That sounds just absurd and silly.
Also, if beginners couldn't 'touch' stuff, how they would even learn stuff? And in the end, you really should get your pride, ego and attitude fixed. And that comes from someone who has slight problems in all those three categories.
__________________
vgmdb - serious business, only.
|
#23
|
||||
|
||||
nobody's perfect
|
#24
|
||||
|
||||
Phonograph can make any changes he wants to other people's translations, but nobody can change his. And since he has announced that he's not perfect, it's okay, he has an excuse. Maybe next people will follow suit when they get angry at someone else having a differing opinion and remove everything they did, then there won't be anything left on VGMdb. And when they do that they can just say they're not perfect and it'll be okay.
Please, really. |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
when did you see me editing an english tracklist for the last time?
you can like count with your fingers the number of times I made some changes I often said I don't like to edit other's english tracklist and I even ask on irc or forums why it could change so don't assume things Last edited by Phonograph; Jan 25, 2014 at 08:00 PM. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
So should we report the original error of the japanese tracklist "search for a sword of -a sword-" or "search for Balmung" that seems a correct interpretation? I can say here in Italy Saint Seiya is still popular and it's still on TV after about 30 years; the original adaptation we have is "La spada di Balmung" ("the sword of Balbum" translate from italian) but we have also (not from Saint Seiya) the adaptation "sword of Excalibur" and I think you can find everywhere these historical incongruence. So the QUESTION is: do we make a translation for the ignorant mass (like japanese have done) or a cultural translation? Where's the border? Quote:
Quote:
about what I think of original japanese songs translated into english I'll do soon... Last edited by depa; Jan 28, 2014 at 02:01 AM. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Just to let you know, that's not your particular scanner, or even because it's an Epson. I've used three different brands of scanners, two dedicated scanners and an all-in-one, and they've all behaved that way. I think most scanners probably don't scan right up against the edges. It's a pain. You get good with those rulers
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Saint Seiya (#1510) | Phonograph | Product (Game) Discussions | 0 | Dec 17, 2016 02:43 AM |
32CC-2572: Saint Seiya Music Collection V ~Shinku no Shounen Densetsu~... | depa | Album Discussions | 6 | Jan 31, 2014 05:40 AM |
COCC-7321~5: SAINT SEIYA MEMORIAL BOX | depa | Album Discussions | 7 | Jan 29, 2014 03:19 PM |
COCC-7089: Saint Seiya Hades Hen | depa | Album Discussions | 4 | Jan 21, 2013 08:53 AM |
CX-7305: Saint Seiya Music Collection II TV ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK | depa | Album Discussions | 2 | Nov 2, 2012 03:24 PM |