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  #1  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 03:52 AM
Boyblunder Boyblunder is offline
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Awesomeness!

Purchased the first episode today on PSN. Hopefully its a decent bit of fun.

Last edited by Boyblunder; Jun 12, 2012 at 06:15 AM.
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  #2  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 06:48 AM
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I am relieved to see this being put together, didn't think that they would release this on a disc! The music for these games was pretty good, can't wait for this! One can never have enough Sonic/Sega music!
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  #3  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 07:57 AM
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idk, I've finished both episodes and music seemed very meh, except few tracks, but that's just me.

And about the games themselves, they are very enjoyable, even if you're not a Sonic fan.

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  #4  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Music's a joke. Poor sample usage, uninspired composition, and that lack of edge that Nakamura put into his musical work for the first two console Sonics.
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  #5  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 12:12 PM
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Well I've already finished all levels in episode 1 and I'd have to say the music is uninspired and very average. I will still be buying the soundtrack tho because I am a Sonic fan. Jun Senoue created some excellent tracks for SA 1 & 2, not the same effort or commitment went into this.
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  #6  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonEnRegalia View Post
Music's a joke.
Agreed. I cringed after hearing some of the tunes. That snare sample sounds so forced. "Mad Gear Zone" is kind of cool, though. Haven't given Episode II a proper listen yet, but "Sky Fortress Zone Act 2" is pretty darn catchy.
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  #7  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 02:36 PM
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While I'm glad to see this released, I must agree with most people here. It had a lot potential, but definitely lost focus and lacks a LOT of substance (seriously, Last boss themes of barely 10secs?). Haven't heard episode 2 yet, so I'm hoping it will improve a little.
I'm just surprised Jun Senoue couldn't get to/didn't want to develop a better sounding synth. His works on Sonic 3D Blast sounded much better (unless someone else programmed them for him)
TL;DR: Probably will pick it later, but mostly for the sake of completeness.
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 02:48 PM
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I think the Episode 2 music is even worse...
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  #9  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewing View Post
His works on Sonic 3D Blast sounded much better (unless someone else programmed them for him)
Masaru Setsumaru.
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  #10  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 08:37 PM
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Both episodes are dope in terms of old school gameplay+awesome visual update. Music is kinda generic, but fitting.
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  #11  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 09:07 PM
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Masaru Setsumaru.
Kinda expecting it.
Why not bringing him in, or maybe Hataya (like in Generations), and let them take that role? It would have been much more decent if that were the case...
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  #12  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kewing View Post
Kinda expecting it.
Why not bringing him in, or maybe Hataya (like in Generations), and let them take that role? It would have been much more decent if that were the case...
They both still work for SEGA too.
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  #13  
Old Jun 12, 2012, 11:59 PM
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For some inane reason, they thought Jun had more of what it would take to do the perfect retro Sonic soundtrack. I still think they should have brought in Masaru Setsumaru or Mariko Nanba. Or, hell, Naofumi Hataya.
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  #14  
Old Jun 13, 2012, 02:50 AM
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Slightly off topic, but SEGA is really misusing Tatsuyuki Maeda. He did an unknown number of S3&K songs, and half of Sonic 3D Blast. (Sonic Advance 1-3 as well) Very underrated, but he's always put on sound editor/SFX roles at best, nowadays. "/
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  #15  
Old Jun 14, 2012, 10:55 AM
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Looking forward to this. I will probably get this, but mostly for the retro-factor of these tunes (and the lack of proper releases for the remaining "real" Genesis/Mega Drive-soundtracks) but not because of the musical quality. So far I only know the soundtrack for Episode I anyway, and while there a few tunes I like, it's still nothing in comparison to the classics. For my taste, Jun Senoue's composition are way too "harmless" for a Sonic game. I remember when I first got a gamerip for Sonic 3D-Blast with a composer breakdown it turned out that all my favourites where the ones by the co-composers, while the ones by Senoue were pretty alright, but nothing special. I always assumed SEGA use him that heavily because he's probably a great guy and easy to work with. xD

Well, nevertheless I'm looking forward to this release. (Sure would love to see Sonic 3D Blast... I'm somewhat surprised that this didn't got a release last year since both Senoue and Jaques are involved in the (two different) game OSTs and they are both still working for SEGA - and isn't Senoue also involved with Wavemaster? But whatever...)
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  #16  
Old Jun 14, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Wouldn't Jaques be freelance, though? And yes, Jun is in charge of all Sonic related releases from Wave Master, as he told me on Twitter once.

FPI: Wouldn't you agree Tatsuyuki Maeda had the best songs from Sonic 3D, and he should be used more? I don't think he has made a major contribution to any game since 2004's Sonic Advance 3. Shame.
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  #17  
Old Jun 14, 2012, 03:38 PM
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It's not like Jun's compositions are that bad (at least in episode 1), they're kind of decent, and a few actually good. But if they only had Setsumaru or Hataya come in and do the synth programming, I'm sure it would be one hell of an improvement. I know it can be done.
Or hell, just let Hataya do everything, for f*ck's sake. I keep dreaming of the day that Hataya will get to fully score a big Sonic game again. Hell, he's barely been in any main composition role since the early 2000s (some exceptions here and there, but still rather minor).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
Slightly off topic, but SEGA is really misusing Tatsuyuki Maeda. He did an unknown number of S3&K songs, and half of Sonic 3D Blast. (Sonic Advance 1-3 as well) Very underrated, but he's always put on sound editor/SFX roles at best, nowadays. "/
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Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
Wouldn't Jaques be freelance, though? And yes, Jun is in charge of all Sonic related releases from Wave Master, as he told me on Twitter once.

FPI: Wouldn't you agree Tatsuyuki Maeda had the best songs from Sonic 3D, and he should be used more? I don't think he has made a major contribution to any game since 2004's Sonic Advance 3. Shame.
I myself totally agree. That's why I keep saying that 3D Blast is highly overlooked, most surely because of being the black sheep of the classic games, game-wise. His work there is stunning, on par with the big ones.
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  #18  
Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewing View Post
I myself totally agree. That's why I keep saying that 3D Blast is highly overlooked, most surely because of being the black sheep of the classic games, game-wise. His work there is stunning, on par with the big ones.
Yes, I couldn't have said it better. Great tunes!
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  #19  
Old Jun 18, 2012, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efendija View Post
I think the Episode 2 music is even worse...
Worst?????Don't spell more babbels the Metal Sonic's Theme kicks all the Episode I musics -.-
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  #20  
Old Aug 5, 2012, 06:09 AM
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Can someone please tell me which tracks belong to which game?
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  #21  
Old Aug 5, 2012, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
Can someone please tell me which tracks belong to which game?
Having played only Episode I, I'd say that 34~53 belong to it, with the rest being Episode II's material... apart from the Splash Hill Zone Medley. The two titles probably share stuff like Invincible/Super Sonic themes, but that's just my guess.
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  #22  
Old Aug 5, 2012, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
Can someone please tell me which tracks belong to which game?
1-29 are Episode 2, 30-33 are Episode Metal (Episode 1.5) and 34-53 are Episode 1, with 54 just being different compositions of Splash Hill Zone medleyed into one song. No idea why it goes in reverse.

I should have booklet scans up by about Wednesday or so, since that's when my main computer should be back.
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  #23  
Old Sep 30, 2012, 07:20 PM
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I tried putting the CD Japan
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=WWCE-31279 but with the space limit for the links its just missed the number 9.

Is there a way to fix this? Thank You.
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  #24  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 04:19 AM
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I fixed it, but the size limit for the lines is a much higher number of characters than in that link. I don't know why you had a problem with it.
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  #25  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 09:23 AM
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Neither I know lol
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  #26  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonEnRegalia View Post
Music's a joke. Poor sample usage, uninspired composition, and that lack of edge that Nakamura put into his musical work for the first two console Sonics.
If I would have said anything like this, man, I would have instantly been crucified. Calling the music a "joke" would have had people all over me saying stuff like "that's emotive language" and "how can you criticize another composer's work like that" etc. Yet that very statement gets a quote+agreement in this thread. If I would have said "uninspired composition" I would have had statements like "how can you know how inspired a composer was", "how can you know the composer's mindset" etc.

Seriously, I wish I could pull this off, any time I give my thoughts on a soundtrack I think negatively of, everyone's like "oh my goodness Hellacia it's so sad you can't appreciate good ART". Yeah I'm pretty much just whining right now but wtf.
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  #27  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 10:21 PM
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Hellacia, I agree there are some similarities here. Both of you expressed negative and savage opinions about soundtracks you didn't like. Both of you justified it in a carefree 'opinion passed off as fact' way. Both of you didn't really consider alternative opinions in the process.

But there are two key differences. One, the way you justified your opinion showed a plain lack of knowledge (e.g. use of note, discordance, etc.) even though you tried to bring a technical analysis to the picture. Two, some of your statements were sometimes personally offensive (e.g. the Down Syndrome part). In combination, you basically implied the composer was an idiot, when in fact you just couldn't understand him.

Your opinion is your own. I write positive and negative opinions all the time, some of them not in accord with the general populace. It's absolutely fine that you also wanted to express that you don't think much of a popular soundtrack. But if you make inaccurate statements or call people stupid, I think it's absolutely fair that you are called up on it and have your own knowledge questioned. I did that just last night when Kaleb.G called everyone idiots when he, in fact, had a gap in his knowledge.

In the end, nobody is 'stupid' here -- not you, not me, not Jorm, not Hamauzu. Everyone's experiences and perception of music is different, and no soundtrack will be liked by everyone. It should also absolutely not be a prerequisite to have technical knowledge of music to express an opinion -- formal or casual. Everyone's level of knowledge differs and it's not necessary to distinguish a note from a chord to sincerely enjoy music.

My recommendation: Stop thinking you're being persecuted. Suck it up and move on.
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  #28  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 10:25 PM
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I disagree, Hellacia. Cynicism and mean comments are very acceptable on newer game music. Sega should have never released this game or soundtrack.
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  #29  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:02 PM
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First: it's not just SaGa Frontier II, it's Soukaigi.

Second: I used "note" when I should have used "chord" and I know the difference and admitted to the mistake, but here's some funny info: nobody noticed that I used the term "chord" earlier in that same post, so I obviously know the terminology and just whiffed on it later on, it can happen. Hilariously enough, it's in the part you referenced in your own post.
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Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
- Underground: sounds like somebody with down syndrome just pounded on the same piano chord over and over again. The very end is particularly laughable.
"Down syndrome" look familiar?

Third: discordance is not even a technical term.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discord
Quote:
a (1) : a combination of musical sounds that strikes the ear harshly (2) : dissonance
b : a harsh or unpleasant sound
The combination of SaGa Frontier II's musical sounds strikes my ears harshly. They are unpleasant sounds. Not only is it not a term, it's actually a purely subjective word. Sorry, Chris, but right now you are the one that "showed a plain lack of knowledge". I'm not trying to fight with you, there's just no reason to list that under the "technical analysis" part of my post, and you're wrong about it.

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you basically implied the composer was an idiot
I didn't imply he was an idiot, I have no idea where you even got that because I love Hamauzu, read my post in the Chocobo no Fushigina Dungeon thread.

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
when in fact you just couldn't understand him.
You walked directly into what I said in my post in this thread, about people saying things like "how can you criticize another composer's work like that", "how can you know how inspired a composer was", "you can't appreciate good ART", and yet you seem to have no problem with the following statements:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonEnRegalia View Post
Music's a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonEnRegalia View Post
Poor sample usage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonEnRegalia View Post
uninspired composition
Funny, I don't see anyone telling DragoonEnRegalia he "just couldn't understand" the composer. Also, music's a "joke"? Wow, I didn't even call SaGa Frontier II's music a "joke".
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Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
I think this soundtrack is discordant and extremely unenjoyable. There are very few songs on this soundtrack that I like.
Strangely, I don't see everybody giving him the run-down about his "technical analysis" and it's probably just because most people have a similar opinion. I wager that if I posted a bunch of bullshit negative technical analysis about a soundtrack everyone disliked, then the fact that it's all bullshit would be totally overlooked because everyone would be too busy agreeing with my opinion. Yet I can post my ENTIRELY HONEST feelings about how bad I think these "revered" soundtracks are and everyone has a fit and then of course it's nose-deep scrutiny into how WRONG I was in every last thing I said. But everyone agrees that this soundtrack is bad so guess what DragoonEnRegalia is off the hook lol

btw Chris: this isn't a rant against you, you're wrong about the discordance thing but other than that I don't have anything against you. And also I have nothing against DragoonEnRegalia, he's probably right, this soundtrack is probably a joke.

I guess I'm just jealous that he can get away with saying something outright offensive and yet when I call a soundtrack "shit" (which, let's face it, is ABSOLUTELY the same thing, it's using a derogatory offensive term with no tact whatsoever) I just get called a troll. I guess people don't know how to deal with someone else's opinion conflicting with theirs. You may not believe this, but I am way better at this then... well, pretty much all of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
I will take this opportunity to say that this is probably one of the most kickass game soundtracks I own a copy of. It is so much in the spirit of game music. These guys are geniuses, and I am going to at least check out the other Eternal Mana soundtracks.
Posted in Atelier Iris ETERNAL MANA. This is me saying I really like this soundtrack. It opened a very positive discussion.

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Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
only tracks I liked in atelier iris eternal mana were vocal/chorus ones
the rest has no interest to me, I could even say it's mainly boring (like ar tonelico, sorry for fanboys)
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Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
actually, 5 or 10 years ago, I coulda liked that sort of soundtrack
but now, I can't bear anymore. I need more catchy songs (vocal and/or bgm)
This is phonograph just basically smashing a soundtrack I just said I really like, saying it has no real interest, it's mainly boring, and he can't bear it. Wow, that's... pretty harsh.

I NEVER FUCKING RESPONDED TO HIM BECAUSE I DON'T CARE ABOUT HIS OPINION, it's his and he's entitled to it and I'm glad he dislikes it because that makes all the people that do like it that much cooler and more appreciable. If everyone liked the same stuff, life would be no fun right? Then seriously, learn to accept it when someone comes in and talks some major shit about your favorite soundtrack. Read it and say "I think you're totally wrong, this soundtrack is awesome, it's one of my favorites, I enjoy every song." Give me one quote where I bashed someone for saying something like that in a thread I posted negative comments in. I dare you to, because you can't, because I DON'T DO IT, because I respect when people give their honest opinion, like I respected phonograph's. What I can't respect is when I give my honest opinion, and people rage at me. Grow the fuck up, seriously.


EDIT: Chris, just fyi, the word "stupid" doesn't appear in the entirety of the SaGa Frontier II discussion, in anyone's posts, not just mine. So, I don't even know why you're TALKING ABOUT calling people "stupid", I don't call people stupid. I call music all sorts of bad if I don't enjoy it, but I don't call people stupid because I don't think they're stupid whether they wrote music I thought was bad or not. Between that and "implying Hamauzu's an idiot", I'm starting to wonder if you're even reading my posts, or if you're just doing what everyone else does and picking out the parts you can argue against while missing the big picture because you don't like the point of view I expressed because it doesn't agree with your own. Seriously, I really don't think you read my posts.

Last edited by Hellacia; Oct 1, 2012 at 11:18 PM.
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  #30  
Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:47 PM
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I don't have time to write a fully-fledged argument. I didn't in the previous post either, hence possibly some confusion. But I'll write some comments and clarifications:

1) Definition of discordance / Another that says the same. You're correct that dissonance can be used instead though.
2) You're right that I haven't read each and every one of your posts. I only lurk in these boards. I also realize that you don't think Masashi Hamauzu is an idiot overall, but you basically implied he was when writing SaGa Frontier II.
3) I never said I like Leon's post, just that it didn't contain anything that personally disrespected the composer or indicated lack of technical appreciation.
5) The statement about 'stupid' was me saying that, while I don't think you have a complete knowledge about the technicalities of music (which I clarified isn't a bad thing, and who is?), I don't think you're stupid. And I realize you know what a chord is, but maybe haven't experienced much Impressionist or Minimalist music.
6) That said, you are horrible at arguing. As soon as somebody says something you disagree with, you believe you're persecuted, start making inflammatory statements, and curse everywhere. Same in the SaGa Frontier II thread.
7) I do agree that people should chill out and take things easy. It can be nice to have light-hearted discussions too. But you're the one who is getting angry.
8) I have nothing personally against you either, Hellacia, and hope you will continue to offer your honest opinions on these boards.

Last edited by Chris; Oct 2, 2012 at 01:04 AM.
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