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  #1  
Old Oct 13, 2012, 04:52 AM
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Secret Squirrel Secret Squirrel is offline
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I'm not sure that Vocaloid fits in with our use of the product field since it really describes the instrumentation of the music, instead of how the music was used in another media.
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  #2  
Old Oct 13, 2012, 05:21 AM
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kantori kantori is offline
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I don't see what other product field it would be labeled as? Since it's not part of Project Diva or any of that. And the majority has it by Vocaloid. Take it out if you like but doesn't make sense to me to do that.
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  #3  
Old Oct 13, 2012, 05:29 AM
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Efendija Efendija is offline
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If a certain song, present on the album, performed by a vocaloid is used in some game, you should put that game in the products field, but Vocaloid software itself is not a product in VGMdb sense.
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  #4  
Old Oct 13, 2012, 05:34 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Also, by what rationale, this album is submitted? We wouldn't cover every Hatsune Miku album created on a daily basis.
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  #5  
Old Oct 13, 2012, 05:36 AM
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Yeah, for music that isn't used in anything (game, animation, radio show), we usually just leave the field blank.
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  #6  
Old Oct 14, 2012, 02:03 AM
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kantori kantori is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
Also, by what rationale, this album is submitted? We wouldn't cover every Hatsune Miku album created on a daily basis.
If you do not want it, delete it. Your part of the staff I am not.
Also include:
http://vgmdb.net/album/35710
http://vgmdb.net/album/35792
http://vgmdb.net/album/35717

and any other that isn't part of Project DIVA game (software). So I know not to waste my time working on them for this site.
*looks at logo* the music of visual arts and games.

Who is Hatsune Miku/What is VOCALOID
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOE03b4XPNE

Last edited by kantori; Oct 14, 2012 at 02:34 AM.
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  #7  
Old Oct 14, 2012, 10:03 AM
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I don't know. I figure it's okay to have some entries in here for flavor as long as they are good ones. Just as long as we don't try to put up the whole Vocaloid discography.
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  #8  
Old Oct 14, 2012, 10:13 AM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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...that's like adding those B-Boy Park CDs because they're DigiCube releases, man. I know ~whole discographies~ are fun, but it should at least contain original or arranged music from a game/anime, or even a respected game/anime music composer's independent CD (though honestly I don't even think we should include those, stuff like Phantasmagoria and Vielen Dank or whatever should be dropped).

I can't comment on what this CD contains music to, but if it's not really game/anime music then I don't think we should include it.

*vote cast*
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  #9  
Old Oct 14, 2012, 11:02 AM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
...that's like adding those B-Boy Park CDs because they're DigiCube releases, man. I know ~whole discographies~ are fun, but it should at least contain original or arranged music from a game/anime, or even a respected game/anime music composer's independent CD (though honestly I don't even think we should include those, stuff like Phantasmagoria and Vielen Dank or whatever should be dropped).
Whole-heartedly disagree with that last bit. Any database of VGM should include everything by people known primarily for VGM work. On the other hand, I think that albums like this are not closely enough related to really belong here. We don't need the entire Digicube discography just because it's Digicube. Also, we don't need vocaloid albums just because they're vocaloid albums, and thus a part of nerd culture.

(And Phantasmagoria and Vielen Dank both contain VGM arrangements. In the case of the latter, the arrangements take up more than half of the album!)
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  #10  
Old Oct 14, 2012, 12:26 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Whoops, those were really terrible examples then Those do belong. But I still think that anything not containing VGM/anime music, whether it be original, arranged or perhaps even prototype, doesn't really belong here. It's up to too much interpretation: "I think this artist is prolific enough because they did this soundtrack." "Well, I think you need 3+." "Well, I think you need 5+." Not to mention... it just isn't VGM/anime music, which is (I think) what this website is about. This IS a database of VGM, that's the point. Imagine if you went to a movie soundtrack database and they listed Danny Elfman independent works or something... they're not movie soundtracks... those CDs belong on a general music website. It would look silly, you'd think "Okay, why is this on here, it's not really a movie soundtrack..." We are not a general music website either. We cover something fairly specific.

I know people will disagree, but I just wanted to voice my opinion. I don't expect those albums to be removed.

Last edited by Hellacia; Oct 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM.
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  #11  
Old Oct 14, 2012, 05:09 PM
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kantori kantori is offline
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If it's strictly only VGM then ALL anime related CD would have to be deleted would it not? For example BTOOOM! from what I know does not have a game linked with it as of yet. If it had no game relation such as Ore no Imouto they would be gone following that guideline, correct?

The saving grace for Phantasmagoria if that's the CD being refereed to has only 1 track that would keep it on here in relation to a game.

For the interested in listening. The MMD PV for track #1 of this digital entry (not official but someone took the time to make it).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LQ6Ng6iD0

And electric love (track 15) and a few others had an official MMD PV made for them which is being sold by Sony bundled with the CD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YnoAjovdzc

The rest fall into only original works. Plus I am only adding vocaloid albums that I own only. I am seeing allot of empty entries that don't have full information as of yet, so it's a tad confusing when I was told about the importance of accurate information. Last thing, I've only been recently including vocaloid because of the link in relation of the performer for the Project DIVA's games. So I would like to know before wasting my time if I may add more or desist for now.

Last edited by kantori; Oct 14, 2012 at 05:27 PM.
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  #12  
Old Oct 15, 2012, 01:33 AM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kantori View Post
If it's strictly only VGM then ALL anime related CD would have to be deleted would it not?
Correct, but it's not strictly VGM and I don't remember ever saying it is. I explicitly said VGM/anime like... every time. The movie soundtrack example was to illustrate that Danny Elfman's independent works wouldn't belong because they're not what the website covers, which is movie soundtracks. It wasn't to imply that we also only cover one type of soundtrack, because we cover VGM and anime. I was very thorough in making that distinction along the way and never implied that we should also remove anime music. But I think we should draw the line somewhere. I hope this doesn't seem like I'm attacking you or your entry, because I'm not (or well, I don't mean to, I suppose I am a bit but I don't mean to be cruel). Yeah, it sucks to take the time and go through the trouble of being thorough and accurate when you submit something only to have people say it's going to get deleted. But alas... it's gotta relate to what we catalog.

Last edited by Hellacia; Oct 15, 2012 at 01:36 AM.
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  #13  
Old Oct 15, 2012, 03:21 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Xenofan's post may imply our coverage is only limited to VGM, but I'm sure it was just for the sake of discussion and it's apparent that we cover both VGM and Anime music (in the past it was actually only VGM so anime music had stricter conditions for submission). So when it comes down to film, manga, novel, TV show or original, we'd not accept every of them, since otherwise we'd end up being just a general music database (with a huge subculture bias).

If one is to add something that isn't related to game or anime, we generally think it should meet any of the following conditions.
  1. A game or anime-central artists are involved (by artists, I assume many people expect it's composers or arranger, not so much for performers such as seiyuu)
  2. Your album is published by a game or anime-central label (some aren't really a big fan of this)
  3. Your album is related to a product that is part of a game or anime franchise (when the franchise originally starts as manga or novel, I'd say no, but some disagree)
Quote:
I am seeing allot of empty entries that don't have full information as of yet, so it's a tad confusing when I was told about the importance of accurate information. Last thing, I've only been recently including vocaloid because of the link in relation of the performer for the Project DIVA's games. So I would like to know before wasting my time if I may add more or desist for now.
We appreciate you're saving our entries with editing based on ownage I'm however afraid because Hatsune Miku appears in some video games such as Project Diva doesn't mean she is a game-central artist (actually she is now far beyond that), so the involvement of Vocaloid artists isn't enough, in my opinion.

All in all, though, perhaps it's eventually up to how much our active moderates can tolerate (at this point, Efendija or SS, and myself can hardly count). I personally think part of why out-of-scope albums weren't appreciated by the site staffs was because if an album is submitted by those who have less idea on what is our main target, the submission is most likely to be missing some important information so it tends to be a big burden to us. If a submitter does it right, though, the story would be different.
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  #14  
Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:13 AM
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kantori kantori is offline
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I am sorry Cedille, but your post does not help much. It is confusing and appears to be reminiscent of the what transpired with entries for strict anime content as you wrote in your post that that too had issues before being embraced by the site. And I do not want to waste my time on the off-shoot chance that a moderator cannot tolerate an entry on Vocaloid when I feel inspired to put in my time for the community that I own or in fact anybody else for it to be deleted. I'll just desist and put the matter to rest.


Just a brief rundown on the three conditions written about.
1) Most times there are albums that are released, instances such as promoting seiyuu's and anime at the same time. In other releases there are seiyuu releases of compilation CD's that involve and range from different anime songs sung by the seiyuu. So many issues arise there.
2) The Doujin tag is available though? Why is it available? Plus the many Touhou albums would have to be gone would it not? Such as those from Comiket? Also, where does it involve PC-games such as visual novels and the like that release albums? Are they included under the "game" tag?
3) Most start out as novels or manga such as the those I recently saw, BTOOOM!! and Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo.

Last edited by kantori; Oct 17, 2012 at 04:23 AM.
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  #15  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 04:45 AM
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Secret Squirrel Secret Squirrel is offline
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I think the confusing part is that we do want some non-game non-anime albums to add some variety to the composer discographies. We end up covering a lot of the doujin field because it overlaps so much.

The biggest source of confusion though is this: I will almost always accept an entry if it's submitted well. If all the artists are entered correctly, and track credits are given in the notes, and sources are supplied. That's why this one still stands.

On the other side of the coin, a couple of the recently rejected albums were solo albums by jpop artists who are in the database because they performed in an anime OP or ED. We might have let these stand, except they were missing a bunch of fields and didn't have any artist credits. These entries require staff to spend a lot of time researching in a genre where they are not experts. We already have a considerable number of submissions that are in our areas that require attention, and I'm always worried about staff-burnout.

So anyway, that's the secret right there. Hopefully that makes it a little less confusing. To answer your questions:
  1. A vocal solo album with a single game/anime track on it is always eligible under the stipulation that it is a good thorough submission. I've evensubmitted solo albums with no game connection for some of the I've Sound vocalists, because they are so strongly associated with game music. On the other hand, I don't think we want full discographies for some bands that just have a couple of appearances in an anime OP/ED.
  2. The doujin tag was originally for fan arranged content from game or anime. All of Touhou is game. Also, fan-games and visual novels count as game.
  3. The source material for some products is often of interest, so CDs related to some manga/novel series are allowed. This is also subjective though, as we don't want to cover the discography of the Star Wars movie franchise just because there have been some derived games.
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