VGMdb
Go Back   VGMdb Forums > Discussion > Video Game Music Discussion
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 7, 2012, 07:35 AM
Cralex's Avatar
Cralex Cralex is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2
Default Quick question about redbook music on the actual game CD

Hey, guys. I've got a really old Macintosh game CD (Cosmic Osmo) that includes, and plays its background music from, Red Book tracks on the same CD as the game, itself. If memory serves, the old help documentation mentioned that you could pop the CD into a CD player to listen to the music, which you can. My question is whether or not it is eligible to be included as an album in the database?

When inspected by iTunes, it was able to come up with metadata for the tracks and everything. What I don'e know is the barcode and catalog number, since all I have left is the CD, not the packaging. What do you think?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 7, 2012, 07:57 AM
Xenofan 29A Xenofan 29A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 609
Default

I think it was decided in the past to not allow entries consisting of Redbook data on a game disc.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 7, 2012, 08:59 AM
ilef's Avatar
ilef ilef is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenofan 29A View Post
I think it was decided in the past to not allow entries consisting of Redbook data on a game disc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigablah View Post
Plus, once we start linking media to products, we'll finally be able to catalogue redbook audio.
I'd say they're not allowed for the time being, though I don't really see a point in doing it, most tracks aren't even tagged. Perhaps something like "Stuff the person worked on includes: ..." could be enough.
__________________
Are you miserable? Good.
last.fm | Discord: Dark Slayer#8440

Last edited by ilef; May 7, 2012 at 09:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 7, 2012, 10:04 AM
Cralex's Avatar
Cralex Cralex is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2
Default

Ok, that works. I won't bother with it then. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 7, 2012, 10:56 AM
Foxhack's Avatar
Foxhack Foxhack is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico
Posts: 514
Default

That kinda sucks. I remember buying a Sly Fox game that didn't use redbook audio at all. Instead it told you "Put the CD in your music player to listen to some awesome tunes!" and it had a bunch of spy-themed cover songs, with full credits and all.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Oct 15, 2012, 02:08 PM
The Gambler's Avatar
The Gambler The Gambler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 412
Default

I'm resurrecting this thread to ignite debate again on redbook media - don't you think it's finally come the time to allow it in the database?

I'm sure it would spark quite a burst of new useful info - cd tracks and liner notes may be found somewhere in the internet, but with redbook audio for games, a good source of info is missing and this database would do an amazing job to cover it. Just think to all those never-released, obscure soundtracks that won't be published ever again and are already available in cd quality...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Oct 15, 2012, 09:56 PM
Yotsuya's Avatar
Yotsuya Yotsuya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 79
Default

Maybe it could be like a list or something separate from the database entry format, but still accessible that everyone could add to and comment on etc.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Oct 15, 2012, 11:41 PM
The Gambler's Avatar
The Gambler The Gambler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 412
Default

We could just add PSone, PCEDUO, AmigaCD32 and other games on optical disc by simply adding a field like "redbook content" to "media format". it doesn't require many adjustments other than that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 08:21 PM
ᄐv๑–X² ᄐv๑–X² is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 206
Default

I see your point but it wouldn't be considered a soundtrack. Would it? To me its practically game files...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 08:46 PM
Hellacia Hellacia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 813
Default

Those are my thoughts as well. We'd essentially just be adding video games as entries to the database. Then we might as well add any soundtrack that has streamed music because, like a DVD, you can extract it from the disc, and we add DVDs to the database, right?

...yeah, it's not a *music CD release*, it's a game.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:39 PM
TerraEpon's Avatar
TerraEpon TerraEpon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Default

There's a huge difference, as you can listen to redbook music with a CD player. You can't listen to streaming audio without specialized tools.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:13 PM
ᄐv๑–X² ᄐv๑–X² is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraEpon View Post
There's a huge difference, as you can listen to redbook music with a CD player. You can't listen to streaming audio without specialized tools.
Even so, just because its capable doesn't mean its okay. It'd be like 'sticking it' in other places. Sure you have the option to but it doesn't mean its 'correct' and/or 'conforms' to the original purpose.

Take the Sonic CD for example, questionable soundtrack to some. As much it sounds 'mastered' its still not a suitable candidate for an entry in the DB. Its official work, just not released 'officially'. So... no
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:20 PM
Mortavia's Avatar
Mortavia Mortavia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 141
Default

I don't so much understand this "redbook audio" distinction we're making. "Redbook audio" describes any audio that is burned to CD to be played in a CD player. Any soundtrack CD you buy is in "redbook audio" format, not just games with music tracks on them. The format isn't so odd that it would be a large stretch to add it to the database.

I think that just because it isn't "considered a soundtrack" doesn't mean it isn't pertinent to the database, we have a lot of non-soundtracks here. And in a way it sort of is a soundtrack because it's the game's music existing on a CD in a format that can be played on CD players. That's just about the definition of a soundtrack CD, except that it's just not an official soundtrack release. It is an official release though, and I don't think that should affect its relevance to VGMdb. EDIT: Neo_Chip, you mentioned "Its official work, just not released 'officially'." I'm not sure how that example fits here, because what we're talking about adding is released officially. So, that's not really an issue in this case.

Sure, you can look at it as basically "adding a game" to the database, but it's not without good reason. I think that collectors of VGM that want to buy VGM to listen to on a CD could appreciate these entries and would maybe even buy the game to have access to its music on a CD. It only exposes us to more music. Games with redbook audio tracks on them sound like worthy additions to the database, as someone that wants to know more about available VGM out there, I think more information like that is good.

Last edited by Mortavia; Oct 18, 2012 at 10:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:36 PM
ᄐv๑–X² ᄐv๑–X² is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 206
Default

Even if it did get accepted, can you imagine the amount of more incompleted entries? Most of these don't even have tracklists. Are you going to guess track names?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:42 PM
Mortavia's Avatar
Mortavia Mortavia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 141
Default

But that's something that hasn't stopped us from submitting CDs to the database, nor should it.
http://vgmdb.net/search?do=results&id=150417
These are CDs that don't have tracklists, so they contain names "Track01" "Track02" etc (well, pretty much all of them in that list). This isn't unprecedented and adding games with redbook tracks wouldn't break any sort of code that keeps us from cataloging these types of CDs. When a CD doesn't have a tracklist, it just doesn't have a tracklist. There's nothing you can really do about it except submit a generic "blank" tracklist. If we didn't want to submit CDs based on this, we'd have to also exclude official soundtrack CD releases, which wouldn't be good.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:57 PM
ᄐv๑–X² ᄐv๑–X² is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 206
Default

:Shutdowned:

Still don't think its a good idea, I can't limit what VGMdb can catalogue as it has introduced more entries in different areas, if it happens it happens.

I'd hate to see 'Jump Start' Sing-Alongs appear here in the DB but its 'official' soundtracks to some people just because its 'redbook audio'...

Last edited by ᄐv๑–X²; Oct 18, 2012 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Added Smilie and spacing
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:23 PM
Mortavia's Avatar
Mortavia Mortavia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 141
Default

Ahah, well, maybe more people will agree with you than with people that want to include them. You could argue "they're not official music releases" and I guess if that's our requirement then that would be that, right? It's true, they aren't "real" music releases. My only main point is that I think that's not our only requirement for material here, we catalog "the music of visual arts and games" not just the soundtracks of visual arts and games.

Of course yeah, it opens doors to an influx of things that might not be "so desirable", like these JumpStart Sing-Alongs... apparently JumpStart's products have redbook tracks on the CDs or something? (I don't even know how you know this!) Sure, it would be really annoying to see a whole slew of that stuff pop up in here, I agree. I also think it's annoying to have so many Touhou doujin CDs in the database, I mean there can't be nearly as many JumpStart CDs and we don't even have all the Touhou releases up to now, we're still finding new ones from C78 or insert date here. But technically they're legitimate CDs... and then ultimately, I think, well, people who like those CDs and want to find them in a game music database should be able to, it's not just about what I like or dislike. If I told them that they could no longer list Touhou stuff here because a number of people including myself thought it was annoying, it would be kind of selfish. So yeah, it could open up some stuff I'd really not care about, but it could also bring some good stuff to the database and more importantly, stuff that maybe belongs here.

Of course who knows, we may decide not to do it anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Oct 19, 2012, 03:34 AM
Datschge's Avatar
Datschge Datschge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 745
Default

I think since such CDs often don't come with tracklists and mix different kind of tracks (data, audio, the latter with the distinction between music, voice, voice with music, sound fx etc.) a special site which allows easy collecting information per track (i.e. if it's listenable as music or is just data, voice or sfx; use cases of the track which one could base a custom track title on etc.) might be preferable. The way tracklists are handled here doesn't really lend to the above use case.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Oct 19, 2012, 03:36 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 2,026
Default

I do like an idea of bringing some new features to the site, but I echo Hellacia's concern. We've actually been asked to cover every game release to make a composer discography completed and once we allow CD-DA (I know there is one or two entries of game discs that were actually labeled as soundtracks), then we'll be surely asked to allow pretty much every other format (even sequenced music), and that ultimately makes us become a VG database that's cover all the video games ever released. While it sounds incredible, I can't even fathom how much labor is needed to maintain such a thing.

For what it may be worth, if any of you really want to convince our site admins who would make a final decision to allow game discs, I think the possible best way is to tell them that there are some active and passionate submitters who own tons of game discs themselves and are willing to maintain the quality of submissions throughout. VGMdb is a participative project and everyone on the Internet can participate, but some of the most time consuming works is often left to the very limited members where I also sadly dropped out from. Although this is, of course my personal opinion, not a representative view of VGMdb.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Oct 31, 2012, 06:06 PM
Foxhack's Avatar
Foxhack Foxhack is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico
Posts: 514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacia View Post
Those are my thoughts as well. We'd essentially just be adding video games as entries to the database. Then we might as well add any soundtrack that has streamed music because, like a DVD, you can extract it from the disc, and we add DVDs to the database, right?

...yeah, it's not a *music CD release*, it's a game.
I'm still miffed I was told that I couldn't add my Fitty Cent DVD to the site. :P
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Nov 2, 2012, 05:08 PM
dissident93's Avatar
dissident93 dissident93 is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
While it sounds incredible, I can't even fathom how much labor is needed to maintain such a thing.
Luckily, we have the community here to someday accomplish it.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Nov 2, 2012, 05:59 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 2,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
Luckily, we have the community here to someday accomplish it.
The current community is swamped with covering game and anime music (especially the moderation side), so without massive inflow of active people specializing in the area, I don't expect we have a room for further coverage.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Nov 6, 2012, 01:31 AM
dissident93's Avatar
dissident93 dissident93 is offline
Trusted Editor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
The current community is swamped with covering game and anime music (especially the moderation side), so without massive inflow of active people specializing in the area, I don't expect we have a room for further coverage.
yea that's true.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So we buy the actual CD's or... RagnaBladeZX Questions and Comments 2 Jan 13, 2016 07:42 AM
I have a question about some more music clips Burning_Coal Video Game Music Discussion 0 Aug 10, 2011 11:45 AM
Quick questions about Online Digital Music Store Cypher Miscellaneous Discussion 1 Feb 16, 2009 05:03 AM
Metal Gear Solid Music Question Shorai Video Game Music Discussion 2 Nov 27, 2008 11:07 PM
Rip / Redbook category? What is it exactly for? kt1981 Questions and Comments 5 Sep 30, 2007 05:24 AM