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  #1  
Old Dec 10, 2008, 08:22 PM
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CHz CHz is offline
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Is Ogeretsu Kun's real name actually 立石孝 (Takashi Tateishi), as was edited by spagnutty? A few Japanese pages seem to indicate this, most notably the Wikipedia entry for MM2. GMCL has separate entries for them, which doesn't necessarily indicate anything. Ogeretsu Kun did as far as I know only Capcom games, and Tateishi's credits are for Konami and Square, mostly.

Last edited by CHz; Dec 10, 2008 at 08:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old Jan 14, 2009, 09:03 AM
Chris Chris is offline
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Well, there's a Capcom connection with Side Arms: Hyper Dyne (1989). He worked on the TurboGrafx-16 version apparently developed by Capcom. That was around the same time he was supposed to work on Mega Man 2 (1988) and Willow (1989). So I'm willing to bet it's him but he left Capcom after a year or two.
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  #3  
Old Jan 14, 2009, 09:41 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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I think he is pretty interesting to investigate. Some pages say he's actually the same person as Takeshi Sasugano.

One thing for certain is mobygame mixes this Takeshi Tateishi (立石武史) with another Takeshi Tateishi (立石孝).
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  #4  
Old Jan 14, 2009, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
One thing for certain is mobygame mixes this Takeshi Tateishi (立石武史) with another Takeshi Tateishi (立石孝).
Mobygames is pretty useless for Japanese names as they don't consider the Kanji writing at all. Different unrelated Japanese persons mixed into one are very common there.
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  #5  
Old Jan 14, 2009, 10:47 AM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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I just noticed they didn't even share the same romanized name. The person concerned is Takashi, not Takeshi. I can't believe how stupid I was
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  #6  
Old Jan 17, 2009, 12:58 AM
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It's been a long time since I googled around for that, and then made that edit. I don't remember exactly anymore, but I'm pretty sure the MM2 wiki page was my source for that info, with maybe a couple other sites as well.

If that information is WRONG, I would love to know.
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  #7  
Old Oct 18, 2009, 04:21 PM
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TENCHOuchi's GE-ON-DAN has been out for one day and I already love it. Thanks for confirming that Tateishi is both Ogeretsu Kun and Takashi Sasugano!
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  #8  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 05:38 AM
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Recent edits have pretty much removed all these albums from Ogeretsu Kun and credited them to his real name Takashi Tateishi. I haven't changed the links yet, and want to discuss this here.

Should this alias entry be deleted in favor of the original name? Generally we've been using whichever name is actually credited, whether it be in the liner notes or the game staff-roll. However, I've noticed some disagreement with this policy, so I wanted to discuss it.
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  #9  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 06:46 AM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Recent edits have pretty much removed all these albums from Ogeretsu Kun and credited them to his real name Takashi Tateishi. I haven't changed the links yet, and want to discuss this here.

Should this alias entry be deleted in favor of the original name? Generally we've been using whichever name is actually credited, whether it be in the liner notes or the game staff-roll. However, I've noticed some disagreement with this policy, so I wanted to discuss it.
The reason I make these edits is because there are plenty of areas to credit the alias:
-The artist's page (under Aliases) (ex. James Banana)
-The artist's page (under Albums) [ex. Takashi Tateishi (as Ogeretsu Kun)]
-The notes section on each album page [ex. Track 4 by Ogeretsu Kun (Takashi Tateishi) or Ogeretsu Kun (Takashi Tateishi) (4)]
-The artist/album forums (for those who are truly stubborn and want facts first)

*I even noticed just yesterday that searching for an alias that does not have its own page (i.e. James Banana) still brings up the true composer's name and page (Kinuyo Yamashita) so long as the alias is listed there. By that logic, shouldn't Minakuchi Engineering Staff be found under Kinuyo Yamashita as well? And Ogeretsu Kun under Takashi Tateishi and Akemi Kimura under Naoto Tanaka, etc.?

Furthermore, you claim that the name Ogeretsu Kun should be credited because his name was in the game credits. The same was true for everyone else in the Megaman series yet others have credited them with their actual name on every Megaman album here and HAVE NOT been rejected. Just because Takashi took the longest to show on an official Megaman album (i.e. Chiptuned Rockman) does NOT give him special treatment. All you (and the VGMDB staff) have been doing is self-contradicting yourselves by rejecting my founded, logical and otherwise correct edits.

Finally, what's wrong with doing a little cleaning up? Don't you want to reduce pages whilst providing complete records for each individual person? Should the real name NOT act like a tree trunk whilst the aliases represent the roots, the contributed to series' its branches, the albums its twigs, and the individual tracks its leaves? If you won't get all the aliases under one person then I will. Just give me your word that you and your cohorts will stop blocking me and I'll get to work immediately.

Thank you for bearing with my long rant. Bye.

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Feb 7, 2010 at 07:08 AM.
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  #10  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 07:05 AM
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I plan to make changes to the artist structure that will make aliases equivalent to variations, anyway. The current structure is flawed; there should ideally be one single artist entry per actual person, and under that various "identities".

By the way, the way things are currently, if an artist entry is linked to a parent entry as an alias, you'll be able to see all the alias credits in the parent entry as well. Parent entries don't show up when you search for alias names simply because we haven't updated the search capability for that yet. It's a consequence of how the database has evolved, so until the new changes are finalized things may not work as you'd expect.
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  #11  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 07:20 AM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigablah View Post
I plan to make changes to the artist structure that will make aliases equivalent to variations, anyway. The current structure is flawed; there should ideally be one single artist entry per actual person, and under that various "identities".

By the way, the way things are currently, if an artist entry is linked to a parent entry as an alias, you'll be able to see all the alias credits in the parent entry as well. Parent entries don't show up when you search for alias names simply because we haven't updated the search capability for that yet. It's a consequence of how the database has evolved, so until the new changes are finalized things may not work as you'd expect.
Thank you!

History has been made this day. (Quite ironic that it came from a guy with a tree as his icon)

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Feb 7, 2010 at 07:23 AM.
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  #12  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 12:37 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigablah View Post
The current structure is flawed; there should ideally be one single artist entry per actual person, and under that various "identities".
I prefer this direction.

I know it may be no longer necessary to bring this issue to the discussion if a future change is coming, but when an artist has credit for an album under both real name and alias (which sometimes happens with compilation albums or some artists who use different names depending on roles, such as Keita Haga), it's shown up in the artist page as if only his/her alias were credited for that album. I guess a minimal change from (as [alias]) to (also as [alias]) will do, though.
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  #13  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Should this alias entry be deleted in favor of the original name? Generally we've been using whichever name is actually credited, whether it be in the liner notes or the game staff-roll. However, I've noticed some disagreement with this policy, so I wanted to discuss it.
I think we need define what to do when there aren’t available credits (as happens very often in doujin albums) or when the artists are credited with the name of the sound studio and we know who are the composers. This album, for example, all Gradius composers are credited with the real names, but in Gradius Arcade as Konami Kukeiha Club.

Like seanne and Isdapi has done lately, I prefer that composers are credited under the alias (or real names) of game credits. The question to be determined is what to do with doujin albums. I noticed that in most cases the real names are used.

In the case of Takashi Tateishi / Ogeretsu Kun, his real name was confirmed many years after Yoshihiro Sakaguchi and Manami Matsumae. In my opinion, if the two are credited with the real names, Takashi Tateishi also should be, unless the other two appear as Yuukichan’s Papa and Manami Ietel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
Finally, what's wrong with doing a little cleaning up? Don't you want to reduce pages whilst providing complete records for each individual person? Should the real name NOT act like a tree trunk whilst the aliases represent the roots, the contributed to series' its branches, the albums its twigs, and the individual tracks its leaves? If you won't get all the aliases under one person then I will. Just give me your word that you and your cohorts will stop blocking me and I'll get to work immediately.
I completely disagree. The main reason with this are the Bemani albums. In the same album, the artists use several different names, like Harumi Ueko / Vap Ueko / Jimmy Weckl (he is credited with both alias in Guitar Freaks 2nd), as if to take on different personalities. For example, Asaki uses the pseudonym Captain Rock only with covers. I think it's important know exactly what aliases they are using.

Another example: Shiori Fujisaki is the name of the character voiced by Mami Kingetsu in Tokimeki Memorial series. On some albums she acts as if the character in fact, like this album. How I will know when she does the voice of the character if she appears in all albums with her real name instead of Shiori Fujisaki?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigablah View Post
I plan to make changes to the artist structure that will make aliases equivalent to variations, anyway. The current structure is flawed; there should ideally be one single artist entry per actual person, and under that various "identities".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
I prefer this direction.

I know it may be no longer necessary to bring this issue to the discussion if a future change is coming, but when an artist has credit for an album under both real name and alias (which sometimes happens with compilation albums or some artists who use different names depending on roles, such as Keita Haga), it's shown up in the artist page as if only his/her alias were credited for that album. I guess a minimal change from (as [alias]) to (also as [alias]) will do, though.
Actually, I don't see any problem and I like the way it is now, mainly because many aliases has its own kanji, and it is extremely useful to know if the artist it's already in database.

If one artist is credit with various alias in just only one album, I think he must be credits with all names, not only one alias or the real name. For example, what to do with Hiroshi Takeyasu?
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  #14  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
If you won't get all the aliases under one person then I will.
I think the tone you take here is very unproductive.

The information on this site has been built up by the community over many years. When there are major decisions, both factual and structural, the community gets an opportunity to give input.

The proper action is to propose that some of these aliases be deleted, and the links redirected to the parent artist. See Revoc's post above for some reasons that we don't want to abandon alias pages globally, but we can do it selectively. Also, if I don't reverse the majority of the ~100 edits you committed today, the alias information will be lost from the discography entirely when those are linked. So please, let's just try to find the best solution first before you go off and do things.

You also need to understand that no one is above having their work corrected or having their edits rejected. It happens to me, and it will happen to you. So don't get bent out of shape next time that it does.
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  #15  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 09:39 PM
kyubihanyou kyubihanyou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
I think the tone you take here is very unproductive.

The information on this site has been built up by the community over many years. When there are major decisions, both factual and structural, the community gets an opportunity to give input.

The proper action is to propose that some of these aliases be deleted, and the links redirected to the parent artist. See Revoc's post above for some reasons that we don't want to abandon alias pages globally, but we can do it selectively. Also, if I don't reverse the majority of the ~100 edits you committed today, the alias information will be lost from the discography entirely when those are linked. So please, let's just try to find the best solution first before you go off and do things.
Can't you post aliases in a text box a-la the variations and keep it privately edited yet visible to the public? Wasn't that how James Banana got under Kinuyo's aliases despite not having its own page? However that happened, do that for Ogeretsu, Akemi, Minakuchi, etc. Even if you can't, I made sure to include both the alias and the real name in the notes section of each album where appropriate so that nobody would get confused (basically anything that wasn't a doujin, which I believe should have original composers credited to as close to their real name as possible due to lack of credit.) I'm sorry I had to put you through all this, but I corrected some otherwise completely neglected errors in the past that existed since the original upload (i.e. the "Hideki" Kobayashi page, which I vanquished) and I thought stuff like this was another case of neglect. This is exactly why I became a member; I thought I was doing what no one else could/would do. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience I caused.

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Feb 7, 2010 at 10:22 PM.
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  #16  
Old Feb 7, 2010, 11:54 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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I personally prefer we are ultimately able to classify aliases (variation, alias, birth name or unit) since we often treat differently romanized names, groups, or maiden names as an alias, but perhaps it's just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revoc View Post
Actually, I don't see any problem and I like the way it is now, mainly because many aliases has its own kanji, and it is extremely useful to know if the artist it's already in database.
One of my problems is whether an alias warrants a separate page or not isn't so consistent. Some aliases don't have their pages, if they differ greatly from their respective original names, for instance. I know that doesn't totally justify my preferred direction and I'm in guilty of this inconsistency. I agree we should be able to add Kanji to an alias without a separate entries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revoc View Post
If one artist is credit with various alias in just only one album, I think he must be credits with all names, not only one alias or the real name.
I agree and I think we can handle multiple aliases. When one artist is credited under his/her real name and alias, however, I think we can't display the fact the artist's real name is also credited. For instance, Keita Haga uses his real name for lyrics while KATE otherwise, but in his current artist page it shows up like 'Composer, Lyricist (as KATE)' even where both names are credited. I know it's sort of picking, but I personally think something like 'Composer (as KATE), Lyricist (as Keita Haga)' or 'Composer, Lyricist (also as KATE)' is more appropriate.
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  #17  
Old Feb 8, 2010, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
Again, I apologize for the inconvenience I caused.
It's okay. We understand that you were just trying to help, and we're glad that you are here.

Perhaps one thing we could do is change the artist links (the ones on the album page) so that they say "Ogeretsu Kun's (alias of Takashi Tateishi)" instead of "Ogeretsu Kun". I'm not 100% sure this is the solution we want though, since some aliases are just name variations. However, we could just do this for the aliases that have their own page. Another issue is that it may clutter up some already full fields.

And yeah, there are some inconsistencies in how the other aliased artists are credited. This is mostly a bi-product of how the information evolved here, so we should work on fixing these.

Hey Cedille, I looked at the code briefly, and I should be able to fix that problem (i.e. separate alias in parentheses per role instead of at the end of the line) when I get home tonight.
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  #18  
Old Feb 8, 2010, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
I personally prefer we are ultimately able to classify aliases (variation, alias, birth name or unit) since we often treat differently romanized names, groups, or maiden names as an alias, but perhaps it's just me.

One of my problems is whether an alias warrants a separate page or not isn't so consistent. Some aliases don't have their pages, if they differ greatly from their respective original names, for instance. I know that doesn't totally justify my preferred direction and I'm in guilty of this inconsistency. I agree we should be able to add Kanji to an alias without a separate entries.
I agree. Well, when the Gigablah add this option, there were two conditions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigablah View Post
IMPORTANT: WHEN SHOULD I DEFINE AN ALIAS ENTRY?
If the following conditions are met:
  • The alias is significantly different from the original artist name. (No abbreviations/partial names, alternate spellings, nickname insertions, that sort of thing.)
  • There is purpose in having a separate discography for the alias (i.e. the alias is credited in a significant number of albums).
In the case of James Banana, although of course is a completely different name of Kinuyo Yamashita, she was only credited with this alias in just only one game, and this name isn’t available, as far as I know, in Japanese form. Maybe that's why a page to this alias hasn’t been created yet. I'm not saying that should not be created, but I think that it’s not worth much.

In the case of Minakuchi Engineering Staff, that was because the page had been created before we knew it was the way the Kinuyo Yamashita was credited in Mega Man X3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
I agree and I think we can handle multiple aliases. When one artist is credited under his/her real name and alias, however, I think we can't display the fact the artist's real name is also credited. For instance, Keita Haga uses his real name for lyrics while KATE otherwise, but in his current artist page it shows up like 'Composer, Lyricist (as KATE)' even where both names are credited. I know it's sort of picking, but I personally think something like 'Composer (as KATE), Lyricist (as Keita Haga)' or 'Composer, Lyricist (also as KATE)' is more appropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Hey Cedille, I looked at the code briefly, and I should be able to fix that problem (i.e. separate alias in parentheses per role instead of at the end of the line) when I get home tonight.
Very interesting that you have commented on this, because I totally agree that it would be much better the way you suggested. Like Keita Haga that you mentioned, in several Bemani albums the artists use pseudonyms on specific roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Perhaps one thing we could do is change the artist links (the ones on the album page) so that they say "Ogeretsu Kun's (alias of Takashi Tateishi)" instead of "Ogeretsu Kun". I'm not 100% sure this is the solution we want though, since some aliases are just name variations. However, we could just do this for the aliases that have their own page. Another issue is that it may clutter up some already full fields.
Personally, I don't see much trouble as it is now. I think the notes section can solve the problem (if that's a problem). If we add the real name of this album, for example, I think will not be very good. Imagine then with some Bemani albums, especially from Beatmania series, where almost all the artists are credited with alias.
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  #19  
Old Feb 8, 2010, 12:44 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Hey Cedille, I looked at the code briefly, and I should be able to fix that problem (i.e. separate alias in parentheses per role instead of at the end of the line) when I get home tonight.
Wow, thanks for that quick update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
And yeah, there are some inconsistencies in how the other aliased artists are credited. This is mostly a bi-product of how the information evolved here, so we should work on fixing these.
I know it's totally inevitable that quite a few artists turned out to be aliases of somebody else after their entries were added. To fix it and maintain consistency, however, we may have to delete some alias entries... (such as Yo Yamazaki, which still preserves the real family name), and some people may object.
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  #20  
Old Feb 10, 2010, 10:49 AM
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I'm thinking we should probably split this thread to separate the alias discussion, but I'll go ahead and give my input:

I feel we should continue crediting aliases and assigning the aliases to artists as we have already done. I agree that variations should only be used for abbreviations or minor spelling variations where there seem to be no distinction from the real artist name. I agree with Blah that the discography and info of all aliases of an artist should be unified under a single artist page.

I also have some other suggestions:
- Credited artist checkbox. A checkbox to denote whether or not an artist is officially credited on the album. Uncredited artists can show up in a different color (similar to how the "featured" artists selection works).
- Option to display either album-credited aliases or main artist name (similar to how we have the option for displaying original/romanized/English album titles).
- Option to credit individuals to an album on behalf of a unit which is the only thing to be officially credited (e.g. Yoko Shimomura and Isao Abe on Street Fighter II albums as opposed to simply Alph Lyra). This should be able to be combined with the "credited artist checkbox". This would also be useful for many albums which credit an artist along with the company/group name. Again, we can have options to control how it is displayed.
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Last edited by Kaleb.G; Feb 10, 2010 at 10:59 AM.
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  #21  
Old Jun 11, 2010, 11:32 AM
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Does anyone know if he was the composer of Little Samson ?
Since he also worked on Cocoron and both games were developed by the same team ...

from the staff credits:

Music
流石一秀 (Sasugano Kazuhide)

One of his alias is Takashi Sasugano.
Could this be the same person?
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